The Cold Hard Truth

No one will be surprised if TJ kills it for Brisbane next year, but the fact is he never will deliver for the red and blue.

10 years on the list for 3 appearences in the top 10 in B&F is rubbish.

We could talk about his potential for years, but this will be a good wake up call for the other players on the list that they need to deliver. Brave move, but will send a ripple through the rest of the playing group. Will be interesting to see how they respond.

TJ and pick 21 for Brisbanes pick 8 would be good - will give us a chance at snaring a tall like Rance or Henderson (if we dont select them up at pick 4) as neither will probably slip to 14.

Agreed.

We've already invested 4 years in him and '08 would probably be his make or break year to see if he can make it.

Has shown enough, needs to be given 5-6 AFL games in a row to get comfortable and show us he can make it.

Rhyce Shaw? Why bother. I'd rather take a chance with a 3rd or 4th round pick.

Does he fit into the U23 age bracket CAC is aiming for?

TJ for Wood in a straight swap would be nice.

Hopefully one of Rance, Henderson or Gourdis slip to our second pick (21 at this stage, but a Travis Johnstone trade could find us with another first round pick, possibly 11 or 14 at this stage)

There is no denying the Victorian market is over-saturated.

To an unbias observer wihtout the passion for the VFL heritage, it would make sense to see Hawks move south, Kangaroos to the gold coast and possibly another team eventually in Sydney.

There is a lot more money out there for any Victorian club ready to break traditional ties.

His stocks have not fallen, rather his importance has grown when we saw the state of our backline in his absence.

He had a groin injury, it was operated on, and he is already up and running.

I wouldn't trade Rivers for anything, not even Judd.

KP defenders who can read the play and use the ball as well as Jared are worth their weight in gold and diamonds and oil.

I can't see him ever leaving the club unless he categorically says he wants to return home... and if he does, I'll cry. It'll be worse than losing Thommo!

Agreed.

He's the type of player you can build a premiership defence around.

Skillful, smart, courageous. One of our most valuable players on our list, and probably the hardest to replace.

I reckon we need to ban Judd's name.

He will now be known as "He who must not be named" as well as "You know who"

Haha.

Very good.

disagree...todd viney did a great job for a year and helped the preperation for neitz...jmac and neitz can help us for the future

And how many Todd Vineys do we have on the list?

Junior is not the leader Todd Viney was. Although I love the way he goes about his business and believe he should definitely be part of the leadership group, to have him captain whilst Neitz is still on the list would not make sense.

If you value culture at the Club and MFC's is shaky at best, then Cousins is dead weight in that area.

I am concerned that as a person Cousins just does not get it regarding drugs and by his associations still has got nowhere near it.

Anyone think where his mind is at? Is properly rehabbed? Would he give a stuff about playing for a Vic club?

If he is such a gun midfielder and WCE have already lost one (Judd), why would WCE be shopping him around.

At 29 with his issues, no thanks.

Agreed.

I love a good story like S Johnson and A Embley coming back from the drink to play in premiership sides but I probably like them so much because they don't happen too often.

I wonder where A Sampi is heading next year.

We won't replace a 32 year old Neita for a 30 year old Junior.

Either we get someone who can captain long term next year, or Neita does it again. Simple.

Agreed.

Ideally this was suppose to be Brocks year to blossom and to become skipper in 08.

Neitz is definitely the man in '08 and hopefully we can see one of Rivers, Brock or even Jones really emerge to take over the reigns.

Perhaps 2007 was a year we had to hand?

It lead to the end of Danihers reign.

It lead to the departure of Brown, Ward and Godfrey who were keeping the young players out of the side.

Players like Buckley, Garland, Dunn and Bode got valuable game time not only at Melbourne, but at Sandringham too at senior level that they may not have got if melbourne was at full strength.

Jones blossomed under the pressure of so many senior midfielders injured.

Frawley got to take on some big tasks that perhaps would not have been an option if it were not for Rivers getting injured.

Newton finally got a chance.

Plenty positives to rise from what was a terrible year.

Chris Judd will be recieving massive money from Carlton, no doubt about that.

But he will also draw a lot of revenue to the club as well.

How many extra members will the excitement of Chris Judd attract? And how many extra people will come to the Carlton games to watch him play? Not to mention extra publicity for the club who will continuously be active in the media.

Great addition on and off the field.

I heard a whisper about 10 days ago that Carlton offered West Coast pick 3 and Fevola for Judd.

Perhaps WC are also working behind the scenes to get Judd to Carlton and that could explain his contratictory selection as he wants to do right by his former club.

I do recall an interview with Robbo during the time of Danihers depature and he made a comment, of which i found odd at the time, that he would give the new coach his full support provided the new coach still wanted him.

Sounds bizzare for a player, who despite current injuries, is still very much regarded as a required player (and would be aware of that fact) to suggest he may not be wanted. Why even make a comment about his future when the topic is very much concerned with Daniher and his replacement?

Sheedy is a great opportunity. But he is not a long term prospect at 59 years old.

Perhaps those involved believed that the current list were not capale of winning a premiership in the next three years so have chosen a fresh coach to build a fresh team as oppose to providing an experienced coach to take the team to the next level still believing the top 4 capabilities predicted at the start of the year.

Garry Lyon did write an article a few weeks ago suggesting the current list did not have a premiersip window.

6. J McDonald

5. N Jones

4. R Ferguson

3. N Brown

2. D Neitz

1. C Sylvia

Apologies to Dunn who, whilst not being in my top 6, really played above himself tonight and stood up when needed. Promising signs.

Not to mention Moloney and Sylvia.

All season they both seem to string together 3-4 games then miss a week or two with "groin"

Maybe end their seasons and get them right for next year.

Maybe the injury toll tonight will force them to play again next week and resting them is not an option.

Admire the effort to play on but head over the footy and eyes on the ball are non-negotiables and he let his teammates down. It's frustrating - he's got a lot of ability but he won't make it if he doesn't get harder.

Agreed.

Bate shows so much promise in most aspects of his game but can't seem to bring it all together. Needs to know he belongs at AFL level and find the tenacity missing from his game.

(also: i know he was reknowed for his athletisicm as a junior, but is it just me or does he have a massive turning circle? is it his agility or something else?)

Thanks Gouga. About time someone recognised the performance of some of our defenders tonight. I thought Ferguson was fantastic and Carroll was also very good.

Agreed.

Ferguson was very good tonight. He played with a lot of heart - he was courageous, spoiled strongly and really helped out Carroll when he was forced to play on Rocca. I know often people question his skill, but never can one question his character on the field.

Let me note that this topic is not directly in reply of Green's comments. Its not intended to try and get everyone to jump on board but rather explore the possibility realistically.

This is more breaking down the rest of the season to see how possible/impossible are oppurtunities are. Yes winning 11 from 12 is a huge battle, but looking at our remaining 12 rounds - and also, due to the eveness of the competition we may even (with a solid percentage) be able to play finals with 11 wins, 11 loses - can we escape with only dropping one (or two) games?

After losing 9 in a row (or even just 5-6) we all began to accept that we were going to miss the action in september for the first time in three years... however... is it all over? is there a sniff? a chance? a fairytale?

To slip into eigth spot over the past five years, teams have only needed 12 wins and therefore 10 loses.

We have currently lost nine games so (let me take this chance to remind everyone of the topic heading, clutching at straws) so we have 'one more loss up our sleeve' and as Brad Green pointed out this evening on Channel 10 news, last year we won 11 from 12 games with the only loss being the West Coast. Can we do it again?

Over the next 12 rounds we have:

Collingwood x 2

Richmond

Essendon

Carlton x 2

Brisbane

Kangaroos

Port Adelaide (aami)

Sydney (mo)

Western Bulldogs

Fremantle (subiaco)

At the start of the season, I would have imagened we could have easily beaten the top 6 teams listed any day of the week. We don't play West Coast, the in-form Hawks, Geelong nor St. Kilda in the run home. The biggest challenges will be:

Port - the game is over there, but after starting the season so well they are falling quickly

Syd - who knows where they will end up at seasons end with a recent lose to Essendon suggesting they are no longer such a powerhouse

Bull - lost to carlton this week and have seemed very vunerable lately

Freo - who knows what they'll field, unpredictable and subiaco has not been there fortress this year like in the past

Are we a chance? Can we escape all these games without dropping more then one game? Don't hold your breath? I'm pretty interested to read everyone's thoughts - when you think can we win 11 from 12 it seems impossible, but if you break it down like i have above - perhaps it doesn't seem so out of reach...

Out: Bate (inj.), Garland, Brown, Jamar

In: Neitz, Ferguson, Newton, Green

B: Ferguson Carroll Petterd

HB: Bell Rivers C Johnson

C: Johnstone Bruce Green

HF: Sylvia Miller Pickett

F: Newton Neitz Davey

R: White Moloney McDonald

Int: P Johnson, Dunn, Yze, Godfrey

Emg: Bizzell, Brown, Buckley

Jamar could use a game or two back at Sandringham to get 80-90% game time in the ruck to keep his fitness up and remind him that he is better then VFL level and belongs in the red & blue.

Perfect chance to give Newton a taste of AFL level before McLean, Jones, etc return in the next couple of weeks and squeeze a few players out of the side.

Out: P Johnson, Bate

In: Petterd, Bizzell

B: Bizzell Carroll Whelan

HB: Bell Ferguson Petterd

C: Johnstone Jones Ward

HF: Bruce Miller Yze

F: Jamar Green Davey

R: White Moloney McDonald

Int: Holland, Godfrey, Brown, Wheatley

Emg: P Johnson, C Johnson, Bate

The Outs:

P Johnson - Battled hard but one of the big men need to go

Bate - Needs a game or two Sandy to build up his confidence to find that flair he played with last year

The Ins:

Bizzell - Worked very hard all summer and deserves another oppurtunity

Petterd - Like Dunn and Bate last year, the introduction of a fresh face may give a spark

If fit:

Rivers in for Holland

Sylvia in for Wheatley

I agree that TJ's output over his career has not been satisfactory. The sad thing is that could be said about most of our team.

Players like Green, TJ, Yze and White are constant letdowns. What I'd give for a team of honest performers. I think that is all us supporters want?

Constant letdowns or overrated?