Mick

RR was taking a shot at you for not being able to envisage PJ's delisting - something RR clearly thinks is a possibility.

Yeah I just didn't get his comment.."Maybe that's your problem"

Anyway, I don't think it will happen but I said 'maybe' and that's more likely than his other "Dead Easy" candidates for delisting like McNamara, Buckley, Bate, Dunn

I'll take a stab at it and say that these players won't be at the Dees next year: Whelan, Bell, Robbo, Junior. There might be others traded but I don't think there will be any other delistings/retirements and I think there is ZERO CHANCE of any of the above 4 youngsters (barring major injury) being delisted

Maybe thats your issue.

huh?

Dead Easy.

The following all have to the best of my knoweledge, 2009 contract expiries.

Two or three of Robbo, Whelan, Wheatley and Junior.

Three/Four out of PJ, Jamar, Bate, Dunn, Bell, McNamara, Buckley. There may be others as I dont have a complete list of expiries.

I would not want to be a listed player with a contract expiry that has not been injured and is not cracking a regular senior game this year.

As if we're going to delist Bate, Dunn, McNamara or Buckley....ZERO CHANCE!!! I'd give PJ only the slightest possibility but can't see it happening. Jamar and/or Bell maybe.

Whelan I'd say is pretty much a definite. Wheatley will completely depend on his latter half of the season. Junior and Robbo might have to 'take it for the team' because we'll need to delist at least 3

An article on Jack Viney

Thanks for that...at least sounds like he has some potential

I'm a desperate fool who hasn't seen a flag in my lifetime and wondering if I ever will. I will put all the pressure I like !!!! I'd take take Jamie duursma's son if he could play. If you don't like the thread read something else.

i have not seen a flag either dip sh!t, but i am not resorting to salivating over somones kids to help us win a flag. Grow up, it's embarrasing!

Ease up...who is putting pressure on him? We're not following him around or calling his house...we're discussing potential father son picks ffs!!!

Viney's son is playing for North Adelaide juniors, U16s or 18s. Heard good things. Have to keep filthy Cows and Powa away.

Any more info on him or any other potential Father & Son picks would be great - would be very handy to have a few coming through over the next few years when we won't be able to rely on the draft (and when we're near the top of the ladder as well of course!)

My take on it with a couple of additions and a couple removed (not quite as optimistic but I'd be pretty happy if it turns out this way anyway!):

Addam Maric = Shaun Higgins

Colin Sylvia = Scott Thompson

Aaron Davey = Brent Harvey

Cale Morton = Neale Daniher (took a while but I like it!!). The toughest one to rate though - could be Andrew Embley-type, could be James Hird, could be Patrick Bowden!

Jack Watts = Nothing we've ever seen before!

Jack Grimes = Joel Corey

Colin Garland = Dustin Fletcher

Stefan Martin = Fraser Gehrig (when he was a young backman)

Brock McLean = Robert Harvey

James Frawley = Matthew Scarlett

Nathan Jones = Todd Viney

Sam Blease = Peter Matera

James Strauss = Lindsay Gilbee

John Meesen = Peter Moore

Kyle Cheney = Peter Walsh of course!

Rip it to shreds!! :D

OK Mick that is fair enough.

I'll qualify your conclusion slightly :"If a gun ruckman ends up coming from a pick after Jordie McKenzie, then I reckon we've made a mistake even if Jordie does come through - because we need big men more than we need midfielders " We will only need Jordie if the midfielders we have recruited in the last two years don't come through - which means we've stuffed up anyway!

Alright, i'll take that... Never thought I'd have my own speech writer!

I think the discussion is getting a little off topic talking about individual players, types of players they are and where they've been picked. All it really shows is that any type of player can come from a rookie list pick but the ones who make it (of any player type) are rare.

I would have loved us to pick up a ruckman too but only if there was one deemed good enough. If a gun ruckman ends up coming from a pick after Jordie McKenzie, and Jordie doesn't make it himself, then I'll agree with others that we made a mistake and should have taken Ruckman A. But saying we should have taken a ruckman or a key position player full stop is, in my opinion, the wrong way to go. You need to use your rookie picks wisely to turn any players you can into AFL footballers and any of them that make it are a bonus.

Are you suggesting that the type of player selected is irrelevant?

No that's not what I'm suggesting. But what I am suggesting is that advising the club that they "should have taken a tall" when there might not have been any deemed good enough to ever make it and make our list better is ludicrous. The chances of any of these players making it are slim, so you have to select the ones the recruiters think have the BEST CHANCE of becoming a good AFL player.

As to the premiership question, did you miss the West Coast, Sydney, Port Adelaide and Geelong premierships in recent years? Even Adelaide in 97 and 98. All of them had major deficiencies in their spines!! And that's just over the last 10 years off the top of my head!

No I'd prefer a Dean Cox over an Andre Giafagna, or a Ben Rutten over a Jace Bode.

Exactly...you'd prefer the better player as I would. Thanks for backing up my point!

I've gotten used to a lot of uneducated opinions on this forum, but this thread takes the cake.

Have fun guys, see you at the end of next season.

Agree - so disappointing to see people writing off draft picks because of the type of players selected.

Would you prefer Nick Smith or Simon Buckley? Luke Livingston or Wonnaeamirri? It's a joke to say we should have taken someone tall, with 'x factor' or some other general criteria based on a completely uneducated view (and yes I include watching a two minute video clip or a single game as uneducated).

Obviously we all like to see an exciting player with huge upside on the list but you can't criticise the recruiting staff when they don't deliver. Their responsibility is to build the best list possible with the best players available, not pluck some tall african american ex-nfl wide receiver who could be anything (or nothing) to generate a few weeks of excitement for bored fans over the summer months

Good luck Jordie and GO DEMONS!

if you actually followed football you would know that Thorp has performed really poorly at vfl level for the past 2 years and has consequently dropped down the pecking order of promising talents.

Don't worry about my football knowledge....your lack of it is on display for all to see. If you had any clue you'd know about Thorp's injuries and understand how highly he is rated both by the Hawks and other clubs.

Anyway, it's pointless arguing with someone who clearly has no idea - let's see if he gets traded for Green or something equivalent and then compare your football knowledge to mine and everyone else's on that basis

Just speaking to an MFC employee who happens to be a family friend.

Absolutely locked in that we will be sending Aaron Davey and pick 19 to Port Adelaide in exchange for pick 4 and Greg Bentley.

The other deal that will happen is minor but a bit of a surprise and that is Michael Newton going to the Bulldogs for their 3rd round pick.

Really doubt it's going to happen....especially since you've said it's absolutely locked in which you see/hear 100 times during trade week every year

If it does then credit to you, but I'd be very surprised if it does

another person that doesn't know anything about football. Hawthorn is in their premiership window now, so greens age is almost irrelevant as he could be the difference between winning a flag next 2 -3 years or losing them. same goes for O Keefe.

Ssssshhhhhh...you're embarrassing yourself. Saying someone else knows nothing about football and then defending a trade that is SO FAR off the mark it's ridiculous really makes you look like a fool.

If Hawthorn are really going to trade Thorp (and it's not just another [censored] rumour, which it probably is) then they will be getting about 10 teams falling over themselves to get him and an offer of a straight swap of Green wouldn't get past the secretary.

Darren Pfeiffer would be worth a look. Pick 17 in 2005 running backman who reportedly has a lot of potential, was playing very well for Norwood and a lot of the Crows fans are very unhappy with him being cut. Apparently the problems might have been off field so if we could turn him around he might be a great pick up

In my humble view Leigh Matthews is the best coach in the AFL and one of the best of all time. Mark my words! Barring injuries TJ will have a ripper year next year and we will be left wondering why the hell he didn't do it at the MFC! This trade is a BIG mistake!

It's not about that though - Bailey may have got the best out of him as well. But if TJ had his best year next year (and that is a big if) and we finished 5th on the ladder then what has that achieved? It's about getting a collective group (i.e. the team) to peak at the same time to win a premiership.

They obviously don't believe (and neither do I) that our list was realistically going to peak while TJ was at his best, so they traded him to a team who was potentially at a different stage while he had enough value so we could get a potential gun player of him. The player we draft with the resulting pick will hopefully then be at their best when the team as a whole is realistically gunning for the flag.

List management is a tough gig and you have to make some really tough decisions to win premierships.

GO DEMONS!

This is a list of players drafted at pick 14 to show approx value of this pick.

2001 - Ashley Watson

2002 - Daniel Bell

2003 - Fergus Watts

2004 - Angus Monfries

2005 - Grant Birchall

2006 - James Sellar

That method is also putting too much weight on one single teams recruiting performance. If you back our recruiting dept to make a smart choice and use this pick wisely then here is another way of looking at it. Players taken after pick 14 in each of those years (and who therefore would have been available for us to pick):

2001 - James Kelly, Gram, Maguire, Seaby, Steve Johnson, Ladson

2002 - Rivers, Staker, Ebert, Kade Simpson, Gilham, Troy Selwood, Merrett

2003 - Adcock, Chaplin, Mundy, Moody, Nash, Symes, Buchanan

2004 - Monfries, Dunn, Wood, Bate, Polo, Rusling, Van Berlo, Rosa, Prismall, Le Cras, NEWTON , Sherman

2005 - Birchall, Varcoe, Douglas, Muston (will be a GUN!), Hooper, Swallow, Gilbert, Rob Warnock, Simon Buckley, Bartram - plenty of others but too early to tell

2006 - Mitch Brown (WC), Hampson, Jetta, Petterd, Proud - also too early but there are a lot of players who look like they will make it and become very good players

Plenty of players who will go on and give there clubs fantastic service for 10 years and would be very adequate players for 3 or so years of TJ

That's exactly whats going to happen.

It's a joke & everyone who agrees with this one is one too!

Question for you: why isn't TJ listed as one of your favourite players in your profile????

Very very stupid move by the club.

We just lost any chance we had at competing for a premiership in the next 2 years or so.

I feel sick just at the thought of this trade....this club and its supporters have been terrible to TJ...we dont deserve him....i hope he tears us apart next season and the powers at be realise what a stupid trade it has been!!

As if we were a chance for a premiership in the next 2 years!

I for one am very satisfied with this trade. I'm not happy yet because I don't know who we're going to get with pick 14, but I'm satisfied we got about what he was worth. People need to remember he is getting on in age and the club obviously believe we can get a player that will give us a lot better chance at a premiership(s) over the next 10 years than he will in the next 3. We need to be realistic and the fact is that our list is not currently premiership material - at some stage hard decisions need to be made and we need to build around our best group of players who at this stage are our youngsters.

There are going to be some very good quality youngsters available at pick 14 so I'm very excited to get another 1st round pick. As a guide to who might be available have a look at this mock draft from big footy (obviously just for some ideas) and read about some of the players: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358174. More info on the players: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.p...ighlight=weaver

GO DEMONS!!

What?

Swap Buchanan for Jolly in your proposed trade scenario! LOL. So we get pick 11 and Buchanan (not Jolly) and lose TJ and Miller

Yeah ive actually jumped on this bandwagon.

One of our best player and pick 21 for Jolly and pick 11 sounds great.

Swap Jolly for Buchanan...that's the trade I meant

Do we have any REAL under 18 watchers on Demonology? Not having a go at people but most people seem to be going based on what they've read elsewhere, one game (WA v Vic shown on Foxtel) and maybe some YouTube clips. Unfortunately I'm only going by the same.

But do we have anyone on here who really watches TAC Cup and juniors in other states closely and can give a bit more insight based on first hand knowledge?

Btw, I agree with others that we need to go for the best available with our first pick (we need stars in our team, regardless of what position they play) and would also love to trade for another top 10-15 pick. I love the sound of the Sydney trade.

The main thing that scares me about him being swayed by Collingwood is not the money, facilities, resources etc. but the spirit within the playing group. I hate Collingwood as much as anyone, but I have to admit I really admire the way they fight out games and refuse to give up and that must be really appealing to someone looking for a new club.

When you contrast that with the lack of spirit we've shown in so many games over the last few years and the fact that many of our so called club 'leaders' really lack that steel it might be one thing which really puts him off and encourages him to choose the Pies.

Hopefully Bailey convinced him that is one thing he's going to change about the Dees. I for one really hope that is one of the main things he'll bring to the club and I'm confident he will.

C'MON DEMONS!!!

Sure it would be great if Judd came to the club, but at what cost???

I'm not talking about trade-wise, but what effect will his $$$ amount have on the rest on the playing list. i don't want to see the MFC all of a sudden have salary cap problems, just to fit Judd into our team.

Stuff the salary cap...if he says he wants to come to our club, we make it work...full stop.