Ted Lasso

A big part of it is he is copping the best defender and they are wearing him like a glove, but i agree, i think he is used to getting the 3rd or 4th defender and not having to work so hard to find space, now he is just totally out of depth

From what i have seen, Salem can be easily compared to Dan Hannebry or Adam Yze, his real asset is his beautiful left foot and his mix of inside grunt and outside polish

I'd say Jack Viney and Jesse Hogan have shown enough to suggest they should develop into A grade player.

So it's fine for them to debate their opinion, but not for me to debate mine, keeping in mind i'm not saying much more than judging any player after 16 games, Toumpas and Wines included is unfair on the player, we don't know if we picked the right or wrong bloke, we know wines is doing well in a strong team and Toumpas is doing okay in a terrible team.

So far i have heard we should, " trade him for a 4th rounder" " greatest recruiting blunder we have ever made" " never going to be more than an average b- player " so yeah people are totally writing him off, might be worth reading over the thread before commenting.

I wouldn't pay 800-900k for chip, but it does mean we would certainly get band 1 compo which at this stage would be pick 2 if he leaves

the entire arguement has been exactly the opposite, i have not said anything bad about Wines just that 16 games is far too little time to know if Toumpas will be a good player in his own right or not

even listening to him there it just seems the biggest issue is the confidence that has been destroyed, Roosy will be spending this year deciding who can be saved and who can't, i expect alot of list changes at the end of the year.

He's played 16 games, and wasn't slow in juniors so clearly something has caused that since then, Wines has had one good year, plenty of players have done that and gone missing far too early to tell on either count.

He already has, our disposal, contested posessions, tackles, and inside 50's have all improved out of sight, we finally have some sort of structure and plan we are building towards although the forwards being down doesn't help that

I actually reckon Lynden Dunn would be a smokey

I'd say there are far worse.. Dangerfield, Sloane, Martin, Rockliff, RIoli, Taylor, Brodie Grundy is a far better asset than Ollie Wines and we passed him

you're guessing he will be average at best based on him having no pace... you have no idea if Toumpas will be tearing teams apart with his pin point kicks in the future we are only guessing here, Wines is better by a long way, for now, toumpas deserves the chance to prove everyone wrong.

But that's not what i am arguing at all, Wines might be a superstar for the next 10 years, i am saying noone should be writing Toumpas off after 16 games, he has not had anything like a fair chance to show us anything yet, we have plenty of drafting mistakes that i think will prove far worse than this one.

He's a good player, there is no doubt about that, that's not what the arguement is about, i am saying that 16 games into his career, people want to delist Toumpas, it's insane, the kid isn't doing that badly, it's the stupid comparisons to Wines that cloud judgements, personally i don't give a flying [censored] what Wines does or is, he plays for Port Adelaide, because Tood Viney as far as we know made a very educated decision to overlook him ( rumours aside ) and we have Toumpas.

there is a bigger picture than one player, even if we took Wines we'd still be a terrible team, it's alot easier to do what he's doing with Boak, Hartlett, Kornes, Wingard around you in a team that's winning more often than not. put him in our side and year we are slightly better right now, knowing our luck Toumpas would be dominating for the dogs because they said there was no way he was getting past pick 5, it's really irrelevant, we have Toumpas, i think 16 games is too soon to make a judgement considering the state of the team and the club, clearly some people expect instant results or there is no point even drafting players, that's their choice.

So, if you aren't getting best on grounds after 16 games you should be shown the door? righto then...

and you think Ollie Wines instead of Toumpas would make any difference to where we are right now? you're kidding yourself, like it or not we are in for more waiting and it's going to be another 3 years before we can really compare the two players with any sort of idea that's more than a guess.

Exactly the same as you saying Toumpas won't get better, he is averaging 17 touches, 3 tackles and a goal in one of the worst teams of all time give him the support Port get and you could add 20% at least to that, 20 touches, 4 tackles and a goal is a decent return for a 16 gamer, especially when his disposal is as good as it is.

That's exactly the point, we make him our messiah, he has played 16 games in possibly the worst team of all time and he's doing okay.

And Ollie Wines wouldn't be making anywhere near the same impact if he played for us.

some very good players had remarkably similar stats and criticisms to Toumpas in his first three years Cotchin Swan Hodge Ablett Toumpas 1st 16.4 disposals 9.0 disposals 15.5 disposals 8.3 disposals 12.0 disposals 2nd 17.7 disposals 13.2 disposals 12.9 disposals 14.9 disposals 17.7 disposals 3rd 19.5 disposals 16.7 disposals 15.7 disposals 14.3 disposals Ablett, Cotchin and Swan were all accused of being soft, Jimmy Toumpas is doing fine.

And the disastrous Jimmy Toumpas has kicked 20% of our goals

second coming of Simon Black this kid.

Just because you aren't happy with his first season and two games doesn't make that so. many a good player took time to develop, we were never going to be a premiership threat for that amount of time anyway and all indications where Toumpas was and is a star in the making, I'd say giving a player 5 seasons is a fair amount of time to make an assessment of what they are going to do, not 16 games which is what Toumpas has played... you are writing a kid off after 16 games..