Jara

Nut, maybe not, but the attack on Iraq is different - most Muslims I know were outraged by it (as was I) - the radicals (not that I know any of those, I'm just going by what I read) seem to see it as yet another attack by "The Crusaders" ie even if we don't see an event as committed in the name of Christianity, it's seen as that way by many on the receiving end of the bombs

Right on, Dieter. That Pro, he's a riot, isn't he? He's like the little squirt prancing around the schoolyard, ripping off his shirt, clenching his fists and saying: "Come on, ya lefty scum, I'll take you on!" Then you say something he can't handle and - zip! - he's got you on ignore.

Careful, Grape. When old Pro starts telling you you're his favourite lefty, you're on a slippery slope.He's contagious. Before you know it, you'll be a twisted and bitter old man hissing and spitting and punching your computer.

Not knowing what he's talking about is no impediment to old Pro.

Hey Pro, I'd debate you on a lot of things but evidently you don't feel up to it, because you have me on ignore.

Hate to say it Pro, but you really need to get out of the house more.

Aaagh! I surrender. Enough is enough. Pro, you're a genius - the Cut and Paste King. Climate change is an illusion, nothing to do with us humans, you can pump squillions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere and it will have no effect. I'll agree with whatever you want - I'd been wondering whether solar UV (200-320 nm) decadal variability drove appreciable temperature changes in mesosphere and upper stratosphere largely through absorption of UV by ozone, and now I know -- .- just - pleeeeze - gimme a break from those interminable, incomprehensible articles. All I ever wanted to know is why is it so bloody hot!

Thanks Pro. Breaking news: the sun affects the climate. Who'd have thought....

Here's another one for you Pro http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/melbourne-to-set-two-weather-records-for-hot-spring-days/news-story/2285f48c7e838a9f8e97fa20a8a65035 All fake news, of course. Nothing to worry about. Herald Sun and the BOM - all in on the Commie conspiracy. Hottest spring days on record? Just a coincidence. Nothing to do with global warming.

But Pro - you miss my point (maybe I didn't make it clear enough). You're forever banging on about how Global Warming is some sort of lefty conspiracy, that humans have got nothing to do with it, that it's a myth. Then you go and post an article suggesting that it's real. If the latter is true, then why are you at least not open to doubt, why are you so fixed in your belief that it's (to quote your beloved leader) "crap." Why do you spend your life cherry-picking, cruising the net looking for for evidence that it's a myth and posting it here? (I could just as easily cherry-pick articles to the contrary, but what's the point? Better things to do than preach to the four or five readers of this thread who are all pretty fixed in their attitudes anyway.)

Spent ten minutes reading one of those interminable posts old Pro bombards us with. My reaction: huh? I don't get where he's coming from. Pro is always rabbiting on about how human activity doesn't affect climate, it's all a commie conspiracy, whatever... But the article clearly suggests that climate is affected by a combination of solar, geophysical (i.e. volcanic) and human activity. Don't imagine we can do much about one and two, but number three is exactly what the more enlightened members of this thread have been saying all along: that climate is being influenced by human activity. Is Pro secretly one of us?

Sorry, of course I meant the hottest 'since records were kept' (although - again, I'm just shooting from the hip - but it may well have been the hottest ever, since, one of the scientists told me, the continent has been gradually heating for at least 80,000 years, as it drifts towards the equator - i.e. the deserts used to be forests. Maybe Jackaub, with his 'earth sciences background;, might be able to enlighten us). I don't have the science to respond to your last comment - although I suspect the highly-credentialled scientific advisors to the governments that signed the Paris Climate Agreement might.

Thanks Wrecker - the thing is, as I said to you before (I was only stirring up Pro in asking him to respond) - I spent a fair bit of time with scientists after Black Saturday, and their general opinion was the human intervention was warming up the planet. It could all be a coincidence, of course - I'm not stupid enough to sound as certain as Pro is - but it's a hell of a coincidence. The worst drought ever produces the hottest temperature ever which produces the worst fire ever.

Oh and I'm also still waiting for Jackaub (or whatever his name was - sorry) to tell us what he means by an "earth sciences background". I've got an earth sciences background myself - the earth sciences department of Melbourne Uni was directly behind the cafe where I used to sit and study for my degree in classics.

Pro, I'm still waiting for you to answer my question about Black Saturday. (maybe you've got me on 'Ignore' - fair enough - I'd ignore myself if it was possible)

Hey Pro - you've posted about a million gigs of data here, most of which is too complicated for a simple country boy like me. But I'm still waiting for a reply to the question I asked you a couple of days ago: How do you explain Black Saturday? Just a coincidence? Lefty conspiracy?

Gotta love that Breitbart. All very objective, scientific. Nothing to do with funding the climate deniers receive from energy companies, Saudi Arabia, etc... Like Earl says, just look at what's happening. ProDee, how do you explain Black Saturday (preferably without misleading graphs from Breitbart)?

Well, if the purpose of life is to learn something new every day, I've just learned a few days worth. Thanks, that was an interesting read. I've even read the book by Gould, but I didn't remember that. Most amazing bit - that the main period in which people believed in a flat earth was in the 19th Century - in response to Darwin. What I don't get is why Copernicus was afraid to publish - if everybody already knew the earth was round, was it such a giant step to say it revolved around the sun? And yet the Church seems to have burnt people at the stake for saying so. I don't get it. Anyway, quite interesting. We'd probably all achieve more if we sat around arguing about Medieval cosmology instead of Global Warming.

Yes, I know that Copernicus proposed that the earth revolved around the sun, but I'm still not sure why you're saying Dieter's wrong. Aren't the earth revolving around the sun and its being round kind of inter-related - i.e. in demonstrating that the earth revolved around the sun, wasn't he showing that it was round? Sure, sailors etc knew that ships sank over the horizon, but the official position was that the sun revolved around the earth. That's why Copernicus was reluctant to publish. I can't speak for him, but think that's all Dieter's trying to say - that before Copernicus, the authorities could rely upon faith. After him, thinking people had to rely upon observation.

With all due respect, Daisy (and I'm just shooting from the hip here, can't be bothered looking up the details) but I think Dieter's correct. At the time Copernicus proposed his theory, the vast majority of the "scientific" community would have agreed with the Church. I know Greek philosophers had proposed that the earth was round, but those ideas had largely disappeared in the intervening 2000 years. Copernicus's views were so revolutionary that, like Darwin, he was reluctant to publish them for many years.

I was responding to your disappointingly ill-informed comment about the fires being caused by fallen power lines. Black Saturday was caused by the conditions: a heat wave that broke every record coming at the end of the worst drought we'd ever seen. I'm not saying it was definitely caused by global warming, but it's part of a pattern. The fact that we haven't had another disaster since then proves nothing. It's only been eight years. These disasters seem to come every 25-30 years. If they start to occur more frequently, as the experts I spoke to feared was happening, then we'll be pretty sure we're in trouble, long-term.

Wrecker - are you being deliberately obtuse? You really think the Black Saturday fires were caused by fallen power lines? Answer me this. If you were standing by a smoker and he dropped a match, would you rather the two of you were standing in a field of snow or a pool of petrol?

Wrecker - I've known quite a few people who died from what may well be climate change. Black Saturday. Worst fire in recorded Australian history, coming at the end of the worst drought in recorded history. Fire broke various records (for example, spotting at a distance of 35 ks - a record, according to the fire scientist Kevin Tolhurst) Difficult to prove, of course - could just be a big coincidence. Been a lot of coincidences lately - lot of bad fires, extreme weather events. Scientists being what they are (i.e. professionals), they always leave open the possibility of being proven wrong - a space into which the dim-witted denialists leap. Anyway, not to worry - you've always got Malcolm Roberts on your side.

Report post If I stick me head out and observe the weather I might notice we are about to break another raft of records. Found this a bit hard to follow. What do you mean?

Dunno if it's worth posting here, given that there's only about half a dozen of us who bother reading or posting, but - that said - to the climate change deniers among us - your spiritual leader, your Abbott, has gone seriously psycho. Weirdest part of his latest babble - global warming is good for us. Good for us! What a jerk. He should be the one in the High Court defending his citizenship - I presume the moron thinks he's a friggin Pom. Confirms my belief that his supposed volunteering as a fire fighter is nothing more than a photo op. Anyway, Tony - a word of advice. We're in Australia, you knobby-skulled weirdo. Hot is not good. Hot kills people, including children I knew. Hot destroys crops and economies. Hot is bad bad bad. Hot is a terrorist. And so are you. You global warming deniers, ditch the Abbot. He has been driven out of his mind by relevance deprivation. He is too weird, even for you. If you're looking for a leader, I'd suggest Malcolm Roberts - he'll be looking for a new gig pretty soon.