The Demon 2565

13 hours ago, Wunders said:

I can't help but feel that we lost those early games because we had people like Wagner, Frost & Hunt in the team. I think we struck gold by dropping them all and going on this 6 week winning run. I'm not saying they are bad, more that they all have a weakness compared to Lever & the way we play (i.e. Playing them attenuated the way we play now - although maybe it was all T-mac coming back).

I'd personally like to see Petty (early season reports said he reads the ball really well and takes some nice intercept marks), Smith (i think he will get the game & i'm excited to see what he can do) or Weid (played down back - because i like weid but don't want him back in the forward line as its functioning atm). Even pedo to the defense would work (i could see pedo as a McGovern marking type - but poorer in quality).

In the end, if we set up well and dominate the middle then the defense won't have to do much (hence it won't matter as much who we bring in).

Go Dees!

 

The way we've been playing over the last 6 weeks relies on setting up our attacks from defence - I think I read somewhere that we scored 100+ points from turnovers against the blues and the crows? That's why guys like Frost and Hunt can't get a game (aside from the obvious fact that turnovers close to your goal are more likely to result in a goal against), their turnovers kicking the ball up the line will rob us of the momentum when moving the ball forward

Pedo is a reliable kick but not necessarily a damaging one. In terms of a floating or intercept defender he's a good option in the sense that he has a good footy brain and decent size, but collingwood has quite a mobile midfield these days so safe kicks out of defense are likely to be shut down. Weid could be an inspired choice, will force him into more contests etc., but big risk to trial someone is a position they've never played in such a crucial game (win this week and we have a genuine claim on top 4 contention)

I don't know enough about the current form of guys down at Casey, but Smith certainly struck me as one with the right attacking mindset in his brief exposure at the top level. As others have commented, his basketball background is a real asset as far as fitting into a team structure goes, and he 'plays tall' as the cliche goes so his size won't be a problem - the Pies most dangerous forwards are all mid-sized too so athleticism is much more important than height is for this game at least 

Wagner showed a bit early in the year, and I don't recall recoiling in horror when he disposed of the ball so that at least has him ahead of Frost, so I think he could be another worth considering. Keilty and Petty to debut on the big stage seems an unnecessary risk *cough* Watts in 2009 *cough* when there are other options who have a genuine claim to the position and exposure at the top level already

Obviously Plan A will be to dominate them out of the middle and not give our defenders too much work to do, but Grundy is in excellent form at the moment so they will be getting their fair share of opportunities from stoppages, not to mention their own ability to move the ball quickly from turnovers

16 minutes ago, Pates said:

The bump was a bump, and while I still feel it was a free kick I don't think it deserved weeks. Interestingly (and it shows the blinded love of Rioli) I thought that tackle he did later in the game on I think Oliver again was worse. Lifted his leg as he tackled upwards, that's the action where all of a sudden both tackler and tacklee have no control, can be very dangerous. But of course commentators just gush over anything he does.

Just as a side note can I mention that I think Dwayne Russell is one of the worst commentators to listen to, particularly in this game because every time Hawthorn got the ball his tone basically sounded as if "oh here they go, this is it, this is where they put Melbourne to the sword". Even when we were basically home and hosed!

And quick question, what was the spread of fans with it being just under 39,000? Everyone talks about the Hawks dominant supporter numbers but that seems quite down, I would've expected at least above 40K.

I thought the bump was fine after watching the replay, maybe a free for taking a player out without control of the ball? Not worth weeks though 

the tackle on the other hand was extremely dangerous, the NRL are all over this kind of tackle and it be worth weeks without a doubt. Someone will get seriously hurt one day, similar to head being sacrosanct, if they don't stamp it out

Must admit, I'm pretty uneducated with the drug side of things here.

Even if the cream is applied to a localised area eg foot would its effect still be permeated throughout the body in a performance enhancing way? If not, surely there is a line between helping a sore/effected limb recover compared to trying to change your physiological capabilities in the context of a PED via injection.

it wouldn't need to permeate the entire body to be considered 'performance enhancing', localised treatments to speed up the recovery of injuries also fall into the category. in a similar vein for example, anabolic steroids are banned because they speed up muscle recovering and aid muscle growth - not because they make you stronger if you take them on the morning of your match

having said that, seems like much of the confusion from WADA/ASADA may relate to how AOD is administered - i.e. maybe it is OK in cream form but not as an injection. that's probably what it will boil down to in Trenners case

From the article:

Its understood the Bombers have come to an agreement with the AFL which will include the loss of draft picks across two years.

An insider described the AFL as "not backing down

Just read on HS feed that the Bombers are officially out of finals 2013.

Essendon will not play finals this year as AFL talks continue

Further penalties against club and individuals yet to be revealed.

I want Choko williams as coach, Roos haven't been in the coaches box for years and his game style is boring to watch.

for me it's a coin toss, I think both would be very, very good options

Choco probably has more runs on the board with inexperienced players (GWS will live to regret losing him big time IMO, massive setback. allow me to pause a moment to wipe away my crocodile tears), and a fiercely competitive nature. slightly unhinged though and will need to get the board on his side as much as the players

Roos has massive credits in the bank - which perhaprs shouldn't matter from a media perspctive, but in realty very much does - and can get players to run through brick walls for him. If he cant change the culture, no coach can

Trengrove and Boak re-signed at Port before they had a coach. I love Chip and think he is an essential player, but if he is genuine in his commitment to the club then the person sitting in the coaches chair should be irrelevant

However, if the MFC has the potential to leak like a sieve, the AFL must also be vulnerable to such a lapse.

historically a good point, though we did just manage to keep a coach sacking secret for a whole weekend. baby steps!

yes he is a pretty level headed guy i think.

Tonight he basically said all that has been stated in here over the last 24 hours.

Wilson has no care for who she pots. Its all about the story.

Will be interesting to follow how all this rolls.

Level Headed? Finey? I find him very entertaining, and tend to agree with his take on most things, but level headed he ain't

My favourite Finey-ism when unloading on a caller/sms-er was [paraphrased]: 'you're the kind of person who will never manage to amass enough money to own a lawn mower outright'

That's exactly it, I will confess to not being the biggest fan of Basketball but it does seem to me to be very back an forth and only gets going when a team is on a roll with interceptions etc. They need to the music and hoopla between points because there are so many and without it it might get a little ho hum. I went to the GC NAB cup tri-match this year and it was utterly ridiculous hearing music pumping between goals.

Music on low volume pre-match is ok to fill the background atmosphere, but some of the crap that goals on between goals is stupid.

I've always seen the musical intrusions (and cheerleaders, fireworks, etc.) as a kind of admission that the sport in and of itself is not entertaining enough to hold the attention of the crowd. That's simply not the case with AFL - the action is continuous save for the 20 odd seconds it takes for the ball to get from the goal line back to the centre square

The other issue faced by NBA (timeouts) and NFL (where they spend infinitely more time setting plays up than actually executing them) are the breaks between play. I reckon I'd need a fair amount of distraction to sit through all of that too

The problem is that there is no defence, as we have to cop whatever penalty the AFL dishes out.

There is no way we would take the AFL to court.

there is no need for defence if the AFL has no evidence. the fact that a meeting was held to discuss tanking, bearing in mind that this 'fact' is currently no more than media speculation, isn't all that water tight unless there is some kind of record of the meeting, or everyone present signs statements to that effect (or at least a couple do, and no one signs a statement to the contrary). it's a loophole yes, but the onus is on the prosecution to prove guilt nonetheless

we absolutely must take it to court if the AFL imposes sanctions with no hard evidence. This is clearly the last thing the AFL wants, because it will open the flood gates with regard to being forced to take action other teams doing the same thing

having said all that, and pending loopholes as to hard evidence, i tend to think that we deserve to be punished if indeed we were stupid enough to have a meeting to plan this, and then subsequently shafted people who were involved in that meeting

Am I the only one that finds this part a little odd:

As many as 10 witnesses are understood to have rolled over under pressure from AFL investigators Brett Clothier and Abraham Haddad, the league's intelligence co-ordinator.

Haddad, an internationally recognised police officer who worked as an investigator for the United Nations and has worked as a tactical intelligence operative for the Victoria Police sexual crimes squad, is believed to have warned several witnesses that he had been made aware of the meeting and expected their co-operation.

So the AFL has resorted to coercing witnesses to make a case??

uh-oh we gave up pick 63 and get back 74. Thats not good news for us. We lost Gysberts and draft pick order...

pretty sure 63 would have been earmarked to elevate Nicho from the rookie list. it leaves a slightly bitter taste in the mouth that we had to give up more to get what we wanted, but in the end makes no difference

Welcome aboard Cam

Dont understand our desire to keep giving up mids for talls? We have such poor mids and too many talls, cant see how wed win this trade at all

Exactly, and Gys is one of them. As plenty of others have said we are now adding the likes of Byrnes, Rodan, Viney and Pick 4 (Wines?) to a midfield that Gys is already struggling to break into, why wouldn't we try and get value for him on the trade table?

It makes me laugh when I see people deride the likes of North asking for a 2nd round pick for an out of favour player, then in the same breath claiming that in a rumoured deal for a player plus a 2nd round pick for one of our fringe at best players we're getting screwed

FCS people it's a trade - BOTH sides need to get value out of it!

for the record, I'd be happy enough with a straight swap, but I agree Gys plus a pick for Pedersen is a bad deal

Gysberts for pick 38 and Pedersen then on trade pick 38 for Ben Jacobs. I rate Ben Jacobs higher then Gysberts and we get Pedersen who we have wanted all traded period.

Given that north has failed to land Jacobs with pick 38 (port want 15, probably dreaming but nevertheless), we'd have to throw something else into the bargain

Gys is a bit superfluous to our needs with the recent recruits and draftees to come in this year also, much in the same way that Pedersen is superfluous to norths needs for tall(ish) forwards. Win-win IMO

it would appear that not only was the an agreement made outside the official contract re: trade but also same fat wads of non-sequential bills in brown paper bags. so to speak.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/new-twist-in-tippett-probe-20121024-285vi.html

bad times ahead for Adelaide by the look of it

great show wisedog

Have no idea what Noth require, but a pick in the 30's sounds very rich for a bloke who only played a couple of games last year. Mathew Bate played more than that didn't he? What would our return be on a Bate trade? Would prefer to keep the latter if North are simply being greedy. Feel Bate and Dunn could pinch hit with Dawes and Clark about and until Hogan steps up to the plate.

Will all depend on whether there is interest from other clubs. 2nd round is a bit unrealistic given they clearly don't see him as part of their plans

What's his contract situation? Can he walk into the psd if a deal isn't done?

Pederson was VERY highly rated in his younger days. I bloke i know in the know all be it at a local footy level remembers him being a stand out talent early on. Whether he fell out with Scott or what ever this bloke reckons Ped will be a great pick up for the dees. Has leadership and discipline and this bloke reckons he will bigger than Dawes for us. Time will tell i guess but interesting comments.

Won the b&f for the vfl side this year too. Given that he will most likely be delisted anyway I don't think it's gonna cost much to get him. Only thing that will complicate matters will be interest from other clubs

It is nice that they backed it all up after spruiking the old, "we plan on being very active" ect and they out did anyones expectations and smashed that of the average punter. Thats the great thing.

I was just reflecting on the same thing. During the year while they talked up how hard they were going to go during the trade period, I confess that I thought of it as more a matter of deflecting from the current shambles being displayed on field more than anything - and indeed that even if they did go hard, they'd be pushing the proverbial uphill to convince anyone to actually come join us

Kudos mfc, you've proven me, very happily, wrong

If GWS or GC bid for Viney..... MFC will pass.... Pick 2 & 3 in this years draft is to good to pass up..... MFC want Grundy, as a replacement for Martin..... I'm shattered because I was looking forward to watching young Viney next year....

Try re-reading what you have just written. If pick 2 and 3 are as you say too good to pass up in this years draft then what are the chances of gcs 'throwing away' pick 2 on jack, using the assumption that he is not worth it

JV is bona fide top 10, probably top 5 (definitely so to a team lacking ferocious in and under ball extractors). Does it really merit 40 pages of whining that we might not pull off the bargain of the century by getting him in the 2nd round?

Surely mfc ARE looking for a new midfield coach...I mean really

You'd hope so, the shake up of whatever combination of factors led to us having surely the worst midfield in the comp needs to be completed, and fast before our back line collectively neck themselves

Could do a lot worse than Ayres, thats for sure. Last time our midfield was good was under Ratts, I too would welcome him in a heartbeat

reported that the dees are having a dig at the uncontracted Wellingham, who is 'concentrating on his football' rather than 'worrying about all that contract stuff' until the end of the year

mind you he could just be window shopping to squeeze a few more bucks out of Bucks

Most of your points are valid, Only those in denial could argue with you.

This club is a MESS

The real denial lies in those that thought we were travelling OK under the old regime

Jam your 8.5 wins last year, the club was already a mess when Neeld got his hands on it. thank god he at least has the balls to step on toes and take a long term view instead of accepting the odd massacre of non-Victorian teams at the 'G and/or expansion teams as 'progress'

the very idea of a 'spade work' coach is flawed to me, somewhat along the same lines as BBs initial response

fact is, if Neeld gets 3 or 4 years into redefining the list, the culture, etc and then gets the boot, his efforts will be for nothing. his replacement will bring his own people with him, and they will want to put their own mark on exactly the same areas that Neeld had worked on, which will put us back if not all the way to square one, certainly within a shout of it

Exhibit A: Cartlon. They have turfed a good coach who has spent the last five (?) years bringing them back from their darkest days (ah, the fond memories...) only to get the boot for a year no coach could have salvaged anything, except perhaps an extra win against an expansion club, from. Exhibit B: Richmond for the last 30 years. Sacked their coach every time their mentally unstable fan base had a collective hissy fit and have 2 finals appearances in the last 30 years to show for it

Compare and contrast with Geelong who by all reports were on the brink of sacking Thompson but decided to stay strong, and while it may have taken 7 or 8 years to get the first one they now have 3 flags in 5 years and are by no means out of it this year. The hawks also had to endure years of pain when Clarko first came on board, now the flag is theirs to lose

The club absolutely must stay the course, or it'll be 10 more years in the wilderness for us