Demanding Success

48 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I'm mot sure if the AFL have announced what will happen re the 12 at eos.  As I see it there are several options:

1. AFL allow Delisted FA status and players walk with no compensation to EFC  (Can't see the AFL letting this happen).

2. AFL allow FA status and EFC will get AFL determined compensation (which you can bet the AFL will err on the generous side).

3. AFL do not allow any FA status and players request trades and EFC get picks/players (as determined by the 'market').

I prefer option 3 - the AFL do nothing - it is the fairest to the rest of the comp especially in terms of the draft. 

However, I fear it will be option 2.  It is by far the best outcome for EFC.  I would be willing to bet EFC will do a deal with the AFL to make this happen.  If they lose the likes of Hurley, Hooker, Watson you could easily see them all getting band 1 compo picks.  That is a lot of high end round 1 picks. 

There is no doubt in my mind there is no limit to what the AFL will do to help EFC.  It is wrong but as we know the AFL is a law unto itself.

 

 

I checked. They can do it. I Heard the AFLPA state it. Also on this article.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/afl/a/30566332/banned-bombers-can-walk-out-on-club/

I believe that the 12 essendon players can place themselves as delisted free agents at the end of the year.  I read it somewhere. This means Essendon will get nothing in return if this occurs. If even 3 or 4 players do this and say Watson and Stanton retire they will battle in 2017 as well.

I also think it's relevant that stkilda has probably the hardest run home. I don't think they will win another game. Maybe 1 at best. One more win and we will move up another spot. I don't think we can move up 2 spots though which is important with the fixturing for next year. We get an easier fixture by finishing bottom 6.

If Howe is gone and I am one who thinks he is, I would like a trade of him for Tomlinson. Petracca will play the Howe forward role and we could look at more run from the backline. Tomlinson would give us a truer CHF. He might be one that is gettable with all the key forwards they have and being out with injury this year.

I think it's obvious that we will make at least 2 changes. Hopefully that is it. I like the roos method of as few a changes as possible.

Some of the comments on here about toumpas today in my opinion are too harsh. I not sure who wrote the report about the game but I could guess. He played as solid a game today as any Melb listed player. And some were pretty not up to standard. He had a couple of kicks which were smothered which possibly he could have done better. I think his poise with the ball is improving. A few times today he didnt just go with the first rushed option. He used his agility to get in a better position to deliver. He did make a couple of errors but not horrible ones which cost you a goal. In one play he got the ball deep inside the defensive 50 and had the best poise I've seen of him to deliver a kick to stretch outside the 50. In another he was in the middle of the ground against 4 opponents when they had the ball. He competed to stop an easy mark and then held the ball in in a tackle to get a ball up. They would have run it straight up the middle for a shot at goal. He get an applause from every around me for this. I was with a few mates and we all thought he is a chance for next week.

Riley's second half was excellent. He was the in and under and most of his possessions would have been handballs. He was the best of the mids in my opinion. He had a set shot from just outside 50 in the last which just missed.

I was disappointed with our senior players today. We got level half way through the 2nd quarter with a strong breeze and then gave away about 10 frees to finish the quarter. It was our senior players giving away the frees. Grimes gave away one on the wing and then threw the ball away to give them a 50 as well. I thought the frees were there.

Having said that on grimes he was very solid other than that and one other piece of play were he ran up the middle and gave one of those stupid hospital handballs over the top to a player to get crunched. He could easily have kicked it before running into trouble as we had the breeze and the players down field to kick it to. I'm being picky here because I think it's something he does too much. I think he is a very good chance to play for jetta.

Terlich played the best game I've seen him play for a while. He provided very good run and his disposal was good. He kicked the ball longer than he has in the past and it was working for him.

Gawn had a shocker. He has to stop trying to mark the ball with 1 hand. He did it in nearly every contest. Just stand up, put both arms up and let them worry about you. So frustrating.

I was a pederson fan last year and really thought he would go again this year. He is fitter than I've seen him. He just seems to be in cruise control and not desperate enough.

I liked the way harmes and stretch played. Both seem to be getting it.

Mckenzie went on the Goodes because he was killing it. Slowed him a little but not much.

The 2nd half of the 2nd quarter cost Casey the game today.

This is just my opinion.

He played in a very similar way to the way he played last year. His game transfers well. I wrote some things about him on here before the draft and I believed he would do all those things at afl level. He will be a very good, if not great pure mid for us. He marks well, kicks well off both legs, is a tackling machine and is very brave. We will nurse him a bit through his first year.

My good- Mckenzie didn't make it out of the sub vest.

Things I thought from training and the match sim.

Viney, Salem, hunt and toumpas got on the end of most of the handball drills to be the one one kicking it forward. It was either they are working hard on this by themselves or its a training focus.

All of the rucks are doing heaps of contested marking drills as forwards. It's obvious they are going to spend time forward.

Salem is not only a great kick, he is brave and often went for marks in front of oncoming forwards. He did this when he hurt himself. Not sure if it was a knock to the calf and something else. It was late in the sim and he came straight off. On a positive note, they did not put ice on it, but did put a bandage on it and he walked back to the rooms.

Frost is an outstanding athlete. Play of the day was all him. Took a 1 handed mark going back into a pack in the back pocket, played on at pace and kicked beautifully to toumpas at chb, got the handball back, sprinted down the middle and hit gawn on a lead about 40m out. Gawn went back and kicked truly. It was great to watch. He is very fast for a big guy.

Tmac is a machine and competitive beast. He looks to be adding a real attack to his game. Was streaming out of the back half and did not make a single disposal error. He and frost will be the key backs in my opinion with Dunn to be the third.

Garland was also very good and has spoiling was terrific.

I've been critical of grimes at times (like some others). He was brilliant today. Was not beaten once in a one on one and his disposal was very good. If he plays anything like that we all will be happy.

Jetta copped a couple of knocks early but was still pretty good.

The White team had tmac, frost, grimes, Salem, toumpas, jetta running around the backline and it really showed. The White team was easily the better of the 2. Dawes and watts were playing against this and they made it very hard for them

Omac took 1 very good mark at the start of the sim against frost. It was at full sprint with his hands above his head with frost right up his date. Good to see a young player complete a very difficult skill.

I thought gawn, hogan and Kent had a very good forward rapport. Kent is roving off them a lot and they are all very good below their knees and physical with the ball on the ground. Kent is a very hard trainer and he seems to be doing heaps of training roving off hogan.

Garlett played mid mostly and was very impressive. For me, I don't care about what happened earlier in the week as it was about him last year. I would pick him round 1 without question.

Lumumba was the one on the blue team with the most run. He just runs and runs. What a great pick up.

N jones, Tyson and viney are ready to go. Jones was his usual self. Viney was terrific and Tyson was in everything. He tackled very well and kicked another goal from a stoppage about 30 out. He well do this again this year and often.

Spencer competed with jamar today and won a few very good tap outs.

Toumpas looks much improved and will be close to starting around wing and helping out down back.

M jones- also one I'm critical of. Today in the game, when he ran with the ball he ws very good. When he takes a mark and has to go back, he is too indecisive and turned it over a couple of times. His run was very good though and he delivered.

I personally don't see Mckenzie getting too many, if any games. Nothing seems to have changed in his game from what I saw. This is just my opinion. He will give experience to the first and second year guys though. At Casey.

I went today. On stretch for round 1, I doubt it. I was also impressed with his work today but there is a fair list in front of him in his first year. He may get a game at some stage if he keeps up today's effort.

Just to add a few things,

-you can really see that there are a lot more mids out there with the full ground drills. There just seems to be more guys running and demanding the ball and then delivering. It was good to watch Salem, toumpas, Tyson, viney running and demanding, even harmes and hunt.

-garlett moved smoothly and is a very good kick, especially to someone leading straight at him.

-Lumumba is in everything and seems to get the ball multiple times in every drill. Has great agility and speed off the mark. Also has very fast hands which I haven't really noticed before.

-some easy marks were dropped when some players were on their own. Dawes dropped a chest mark under pressure which should have been hands out. i find this very frustrating. to his credit he used his hands for the rest of the session.

-The kicking was actually quite good with a few errors. The Brayshaw errors were on his left foot. A couple in a row. They were also when he seemed to be changing direction and with no momentum. His kicking on the right was pretty good.

-I have never seen more players doing extra things when training was finished. It was about half the list. It would be interesting to know whether cross is a direct influence on this.

-gawn looks awesome. Was leading out of the goal square in some of the drills and he is completing a lot of running.

-I also thought watts looked a bit bigger.

-I said before last preseason that I thought pederson needed to lose 4 or 5 kgs and he could then contribute. He looks to be fitter again.

-For his size frost is very quick.

-Tmac is a running machine and looks to have put on a couple on the upper body. He and frost could become pretty good pillars at the back.

Brian Stynes

Jay Viney

Steven Febey

Matthew Febey

Anthony McDonald

James McDonald

Chris Johnson

Jack Viney*

Dylan Grimes*

Zak Jones*

Oscar McDonald*

Billy Stretch*

conclusion: Recruiting (or not recruiting) sons and brothers of former players is more often a negative rather than positive result (*so far)

Then you could add names like cloke-the youngest of the sons is the best, selwood- same (think he is the youngest), jakovic- arguable. It's not always negative. Maybe neutral is a better word. It is a bit of a lottery though.

I just read the eagles article on the afl page. I'm sooo happy we don't have a list that big of players not doing full training. We wouldn't recover from that.

How dIid Salem and Toump go today? Haven't heard much about them apart from Salems big arms and Toump's shaved head. Would prefer a bit more clarity if anyone has seen them please?

Both of these guys look to be training pretty well. They look fit and did all the drills and running. They both kicked the ball well in all the drills. I didn't see them make any stray kicks or handballs. To me they just seem to be training solidly at this stage.

Oh and Tyson did the whole session as well so the finger must be going ok. Missed a few kicks but just looks class with ball in hand.

pick 2 - De Goey

pick 3 - Cockatoo/Garlett

pick 40 - Langdon/McDonald

pick 53 - ?

rookie 2 - Caleb Daniel

rookie 20 - Tapscott

Prediction of which 2 will be the best players from this draft class in 3 years time: Heeney & Cockatoo

2015 rising star: Heeney

I am a Heeney fan but he won't win the 2015 rising star. At the swans he will be lucky to play a game next year.

I got there at about 9.40 ish. So some may have already been gone.

Just a few observations from training.

-I won't talk about the drills really. They moved from close in drills with handball to move further and further out to longer kicking drills. They were no real forwards, mids, backs, everyone did everything.

-I was quite impressed with frost. He is tall and big and a very good mover. Had a few kicked to him too high and jumped and stretched to pull them in at the highest point. His kicking appears ok.

-H looks fit and in all the drills quite sharp considering it was his first session. He does look very different in red and blue. He really has great agility and in all the drills moved quickly. I'm happy to have a player like him playing for us. Between drills he got around to a lot of different players for a quick few words. I liked that he was really focusing on the younger guys that haven't been around long like king and hunt.

-king does look bigger but still has a way to go, especially when standing next to frost. He does appear to be a very good kick. He is well down the pecking order but hopefully he has a good run with injury and has a good year.

-Kent looks fit. Something that really stood out to me was he did a clearance drill with just viney and Goodwin working on body positioning. It was just these 3 whilst others were doing other things. He also after all the drills finished did 300m sprints with McDonald whilst everyone else went to the Anderson st hill. Kent is definitely preparing for some movement to the midfield. To me, you can really see that roosy is true to has word in developing our young players properly. Viney not spending all his time in the centre, Kent being groomed properly, seasoned bodies being brought in to protect the kids.

-I'm a huge jetta fan and have been for years. I have chatted to him quite a few times over the years and he is pretty honest about himself. I just like the way he plays. I'm a fan of his aggression. Chatted to him again today. He is getting bigger in the legs and is stronger through the core. I don't believe he is resting on his laurels after getting back on the list. I hope he has a huge year.

-gawn is a huge man and looks bigger than last year. He did the rehab stuff and then did timed runs of various distances and laps.

- lots not there today including jamar, jones, Jkh, Dunn, garlett, spencer and I didn't see tappscott. Was a few others as well.

Jarred Brennan's a top 3 pick from the NT that comes to mind, a while ago though.

I'm glad you nominated one. I couldn't think of one and didn't look to check.

I think the standard of NT development has not kept up with other states, which is a sad state of affairs. Theres quite a lot of talent up there. I've gone and watched some games when I've been up there ( watching the dees) and its fun to watch.

It's a very big shock for their players to step into an AFL team environment. This is part of the reason for declining NT picks and perhaps even half of them have been boarding interstate.

For me cockatoo is a chance to go anywhere from maybe us at 3 to perhaps even the 30's.

Bearing in mind that the game was against an U17 team albeit the best ones in the land.

This is a huge factor. People talking about his one game. This was not against even the best players of his own age group. Not against picking him if the recruiters who have much more detail on him think he is the right pick. But don't get to carried away on how good he looks from one game against junior opposition. I also can't think of a single top 3 pick from the NT. Or even a top 10 pick. There have been some terrific players from the NT but they are coming from along way back in elite development.

Just to add to de goey from what I've seen, he is a great tackler, and I mean a great tackler. Very, very aggressive at the ball and the man. Played a lot around half forward with stints in the middle. Had an outstanding finish to the season after the champs. Kicks goals as well. Is a terrific half forward at keeping the ball in the forward line. He really did get better as the year went on.

A good mate of mine who's son plays for the Western Jets says we should stay away from Brayshaw and McCartin.

He sees a lot of them and reckons they are both too slow, and have very good players around them who give it to them a lot.

He believes Petracca and Wright are the pick of the bunch, then Laverde and Lever.

He said Wright was very good in a terrible team , who's skills were poor and even though they didn't kick it to him properly he still found plenty of the ball for a big man and is a marking machine.

Sorry dz your mate is a terrible judge. Neither are slow. Brayshaw moves well although he could at times use his pace more. He is a certainty. I will be so disappointed if the saints pick him. Best pure mid available imo. McCartin has an ability to create space on the lead.

And to say that the cannons are a terrible team is unbelievable. They consistently produce afl standard players every year. This year won't be any different.

From a personal view I thought Georgiou gave up a lot and had a good crack at it and was important in making the team competitive early in the year.

From a critical list management view:

187cm key defender with poor skills. Came in and did a job for us whilst Garland was injured and Frawley/Dunn were forward but the reality was he was only ever going to be depth. Why carry depth with limited potential when you are a bottom 4 side?

Tall defenders: McDonald, Frost

Medium defenders: Dunn, Garland, Howe

Swingman: Pedersen

There's enough coverage there for 3, maybe 4 spots in the team.

If we could get Mitch Brown from Geelong on the rookie list he has more ability than Georgiou, has the probably physical tools and can cover either end of the ground. Plus there's always a chance you can get his head switched on and he can actually make it as a long term player. He's just an example.

I agree with this. I think there will be another key back coming in the rookie draft. I was told it was going to be Tippett last year but north picked him first and this was something the club knew was a possibility.

Georgiou is not tall enough in today's footy to play the role he plays.

Laverde is a chance to go high because gws have 3 picks and the pies have pick 5.

The obvious ones are petracca and Brayshaw. It's been interesting to read people's opinions on Brayshaw on highlights packages alone. I haven't looked at them. I think he will be a very good player. Has all the necessary skills to be a decent player in the beames type mould. No nonsense, kicks well on both feet, good tackler, gets his own ball in contests, takes 1v1marks and kicks goals from set shots and general play. He is the pure mid type I'm talking about. Plays mostly on the ball in all the contests.

I really like ahern. He is also a pure mid. Has a bit of breakaway speed and uses it pretty well. Can rack up some good numbers very quickly. It's no surprise his team fell away in the granny after he copped a big head knock. He was probably best on until that stage. I don't think he will go top 3. I think Carlton might have picked him if they had kept pick 7.

Duggan and Ellis play mostly mid for the same team as laverde. I've seen a fair bit of those 2. They are both skilled players. Ellis played more half back for metro.

Heeney looks like a gun. I prefer mids that are on the move at a bounce, ball-up or throwin. Heeney is constantly moving. A good example of the is jones when he was younger as compared to viney. Viney is always moving. Jones was stationary a lot in the early years. He got in the right position but was stationary and easy to tackle. He got tackled heaps in his early years inside the contest. Fyfe is another example of someone on the move in the contest. Heeney moves like this. Not surprised we bid pick 2 on him.

I've only seen weller play a couple of times. It's hard to rate the non-big footy states now because they don't play the best teams. He seems to be a pretty good package.

The draft this year is a little different to some years because there are heaps of taller guys that should go early. The best picks imo will be mostly talls with some utilities and petracca and Brayshaw.

Just on a side note. I believe gws will continue to be raidable. If we pick mids, it's possible we may be able to get another key forward from them over the next 2 years. If they end up with McCartin or wright they may end up options in 2 years anyway. Just my opinion.

I've spoken about melbourne not taking pure midfielders whilst drafting for a number of years. The ones we did take are trengove, scully (at the time, but probably too small as he hasn't really put on any weight), gysberts (was just too lazy). We have taken some wingers such as Morton and blease, halfbacks and half forwards such as bennell, tappscott and Strauss. The rest have been players like watts, cook, McDonald and other talls not really around anymore. Plus a couple of rucks.

I would debate that we have completely neglected our midfield. I mean guys that go and get the footy. The last 2 drafts and trade period they have attempted to rectify this. Some not as profitable as others and some of the younger ones we will see. For years we forgot that you are suppose to have the football before the flashy players can use it.

We need to address our midfield in a big way because imo players like Evans and m jones aren't contributing to winning. Geelong won their early flags with an average to ok forward line but had a brilliant midfield and backline. We have the makings of an ok forward line at the minute but its hard to judge when the ball goes in there 20 to 30 times a game and was very slow ball movement last year.

I've commented on laverde already and I don't believe he is a player we have the luxury of picking at the minute. He could be a very good player but he could be a fail as well. His u/18s side has some very good mids who can get the ball and he seems a bit of icing. I have seen him play about 10 games live. I wouldn't pick him in the first 3. It's too risky imo and we really need to get high draft picks right. I would pick ahern before him for us in our current position. Not that I think ahern will be top 3.

I'll go so far as to say this game will be the MOST defining game of our season.

Win and we set up for the year LOSE and well I don't really want to contemplate it.

WE SIMPLY MUST WIN THIS FIRST UP VERY WINNABLE GAME

I have to admit that I actually agree with this. I don't want to get to far ahead though as we always seem to have important injuries early in the year. This year we had nearly all of our talls injured. Dawes will already be unavailable. Not much margin for error as far as key forwards are concerned.

Maybe it might be pouring.

Given the evenness of rest the draft pool, I’m thinking more and more that Cockatoo goes before 23.

He makes too much sense for a number of clubs in the 12-20 range, and there’s been some chatter that clubs inside the 10 (lower half) are seriously considering him.

Cockatoo may go just about anywhere in the draft. There are not many NT guys that have gone high in the draft so this might be a consideration. Some of the NT guys like rioli who did go high went to school in other states and some like our own Barry were GWS draft concessions. I don't know enough about his background to do a proper analysis. He did have an advantage in playing in that game before the grand final that hasn't occurred in the past but that was against 17 year olds. He may even end up a rookie.

I spoke to some of my friends at various clubs and Daniel may not even be selected because of his height. He is not just short, he is very short and weighs not much. At AFL level the players are bigger, stronger than they ever have been and he might not be able to put on the necessary weight to even compete.

There are plenty of people on this site alone that don't want any more skinny players. He goes beyond that.

If he gets picked up then good luck to him but I'm not sure he will. He is skillful though.