Lucifers Hero

Sorry, I was just noting that while Goodwin was a much decorated player his leadership skills are untested. Actually, he has a very similar career path to Buckley: A driven, much decorated player, had a few years as Ass coach, understudy to Premiership coach. Inherited a talented team as Senior coach. Hopefully, that is where the comparison ends and we have that elusive success.

Not sure which thread this belongs in: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/melbourne-demons-insist-jesse-hogan-is-a-required-player-for-2018-20171002-gysu4c.html Most of it is old news/guesswork but we now have some time lines: Demons' football-department chief Josh Mahoney said on Monday Hogan was "very much a required player", and his relationship with coach Simon Goodwin "couldn't be any stronger"...Fairfax Media understands the Dockers have not ruled out making a play for Hogan, who they believe they may be open to a move. Watts is set to declare his intentions at a TAB lunch on Tuesday. The Demons are understood to have had interest in Harley Balic, the young Docker midfielder who has requested a trade home to Victoria. It's understood forward Dean Kent, with a year to run on his contract, will clarify his future with the club this week. Former Demons co-captain Jack Trengove...is expected to detail his plans on Tuesday. So the list picture will be clearer in a few days. Really hope Jack T gets another gig. Footnote - not sure why Goodwin/Mahoney keep repeating that Goodwin has a strong relationship with 'X' player... If that is said too often some may come to doubt it...

The latest picture after Ben Kennedy delisting. Now there are 4 Senior list spots available. Only one OOC Senior list player left - King. Then contracted players need to go to make room for any more players. Watts is gone and talk about Kent also being traded out.

The same Wayne Campbell that captained Richmond 2001 to 2004? Out of interest, how do you know what instructions were given to the teams...

@Roost It who has excellent mail posted that Hogan had been told by the club he was not on the 'untradeable list' and could go it they got a good price ie if another club paid us overs+. He then posted that there were only six (yes 6!) players on that list. (pages 105 and 106 of the Lever thread). I get the 'any player is tradeable theory' but... That short list doesn't exactly make a player feel really, really wanted so I am at the point where I don't blame any of our players for looking around. And I believe that clubs are talking to Hogan altho I doubt he would go. Nothing would surprise me anymore.

Just a small correction Sir...Goodwin was a back to back premiership player in his first two years as a player. He became captain 10 years later for for three years and it finished 5th, 5th and 11th at which time he retired as a player. I'm delighted he won 2 premierships, has lots of AA's and B&F's so clearly he is driven and a terrific player but was he or is he a good leader? The jury is still out on that.

Just playing 'pass the paracel' with pick 20... and get the Lever deal done quickly...

pick 20 Geelong to Bulldogs for Stringer pick 20 Bulldogs to Sydney for Tippett (both of the tall forwards have been out with persona/mental issues and Carlisle is in a hold patter re a contract). And their ruck stocks are quite thin. pick 20 Sydney to Melbourne for Watts. Pick 20 plus our pick 10 to Adelaide for Lever (...OR we keep pick 20 to get a very good mid and tell Adelaide they can have 10 and 27 for Lever, take it or leave it). As a long term fan of Jack's I now feel like Judas Having accepted he is gone then it is important we get the best deal. That is the best I can think of...unless Sydney want to give us a straight swap Zac Jones for Watts......or another of their young fast mids...

Great! I noted earlier I would love to see Jack go there. Longmire would work Jack real hard and he would need to earn his stripes the hard way. They take no prisoners and are not shy about dropping the 'big names'. But there is only one name in Sydney so Jack can be anonymous up there. Sydney do not have a 'link man' or anyone close to playing that role and would be a good pick up for them. Longmire would have a long chat with Roos and will get a warts and all picture of Jack. They also play fair at the trade table so the trade could get done fairly easily. I really hope he doesn't go to Port they will eat him alive.

We are not known for playing hardball when it comes to trades. I like that we play fair but many other clubs don't. A bit rich of Adelaide to not pay the price for Gibbs last year. And now dig their heels in when the trade is the other way. Adelaide are stubborn not as bad as Ess stubborn but getting close. With Coll seemingly wanting to offer Adelaide more than us (which I think is just posturing with little intent, if even true) may force our hand to trade more value than we would like. I guess it may come down to whether we have other trades rely on the Lever being done early. If not we can wait and see who blinks first.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-02/trade-winds-spoiler-in-dees-lever-swoop Collingwood is poised to be a "spoiler" in the race for the star backman. Adelaide wants two first-round selections for the 21-year-old and the Magpies might be prepared to offer that up earlier than the Demons do". No mention of Lever's preference or discussions with his management. I believe the posters here who have said he will come to the Demons and I can't imagine his management entertaining offers at this late stage. So, Coll are playing games? Maybe force our hand to give Adelaide 'overs' and then we have less trade currency for other moves? Don't trust them at Victoria Park.

All good. Thank you.

Jack played in the last game of 2016. You may be thinking the last game of 2015 when Roos dropped him. It had the desired affect as he came back and played his best (but not great) year in 2016. As I said I'm not making any excuses for Jack and I accept he is gone. I would just like to seem him go to a club that is settled with a coach who plays to his strengths. Sydney or Hawks would fit the bill for mine.

I don't wish to buy into the sad Stringer story but just for general info - 'phone calls' can be made via facebook, skype, etc to an account holder so phone numbers are not required. Messages can also be sent on them. For example, I have a Samsung Tablet which does not have a Sim card and I use those apps for messages, 'phone' and 'video' calls. It accesses the internet via my home internet or 'Hot Spot' to my mobile phone when I'm out and about. There are lots of ways of getting someone's phone number or account names if a person really wants to.

If Jack went to either of those clubs he would be outstanding for them. He would thrive in a settled team with an experienced coach who is not under pressure to 'reach finals' or has the burden of a club's dismal history. My theory is Jack reached his best so far, in 2016 when he was played primarily in one position - the link role. Prior to that and this year he was played all over the park in unsettled teams with rookie coaches. Not making excuses for Jack's faults nor diminishing the importance of achieving team expectations, just saying that Roos knew how to get the best from him and played to Jacks strengths. I would love to see him go to Hawks or Swans. Preferably Sydney, where the media will leave him alone.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/port-adelaide-ruckman-paddy-ryder-charged-with-assault-and-hindering-police-20171001-gysai2.html "Ryder, 29, was arrested by police, who allege he assaulted officers and hindered them making an arrest". On the face of it doesn't sound good. Let's hope our lot stay out of strife this off season.

Looks like the players were quite proud of their clash jumper - enough to wear it to their Family Day Celebrations at Punt Road Oval That should quieten KB!

Kade or twin brother Jake at Geelong? Kade didn't play the last few months of the season because of concussion issues and they hope he will be ready to start preseason. SUNS medical staff are optimistic the defender will resume full time training on the first day or pre-season...“Hopefully he’ll be in a position to resume full training and playing next year but we’ll monitor that space over the off-season,” Dr Rigby said. Given we have had Salem who has recovered from a series of concussion issues and Brayshaw who has been so unfortunate and still at risk, I'm not sure about bringing in another player at risk. His twin Jake has played on the wing in recent times and may be the better get.

That is what has upset me as much as Jack going. It is one thing to be bagged by the media and fans. Totally different when the coach and captain keep putting your weaknesses out there without balancing it with your strengths. Both played the 'bad cop' but I can't see who the 'good cop' was. Can't help but think they stamped his card fairly early in the season. So its fairly difficult for someone to give their all with that blowtorch from the inside. That is no excuse for Jack for not following team rules. I just think that resilience (for which he is renowned) can quickly turn to apathy (which seems to have happened) when relationships break down. So he's gone. But in my book Goodwin and Jones have done themselves no favours with their negative public stance.

That is a fair comment SF. And I agree there is no room for someone who does not buy into and practice team rules. This year has shown there are a number of players who lack discipline off the field, who have been caught out being 'naughty' and sanctioned by the club. So Jack leaving isn't going to magically 'fix' our culture and whether Jack leaving even improves it is a moot point. Either way, I sure as hell hope we can cover his skills on the field!!

SF, you have made that same comment over and over and over again in this and various other threads. It is getting tiresome. Can you please find a new tune to play. And btw, I am one of those Watts defenders!! But I haven't come out of the closet - proudly a supporter since the beginning. But sadly, I can see the writing on the wall and no amount of wishing otherwise nor banging my head against said wall will keep him a Demon. Like 'Akum', 'Jumbo Returns' and a few other stalwart Watts' fans on here, I have finally accepted he is gone. It will take some time to get used to and I will be in mourning for a while. I hear what you say about him but I don't like seeing Dee fans relentlessly tear down our players. They wear our colours and I love them for it. I take little joy from an exceptionally sad outcome for all involved. I genuinely wish him every success at his new club. Bye Jack

Goodwin has been talking Jack down all year, starting in the pre season and it never ended. So, Watts' value started depreciating a long time ago. I get the feeling moving Jack on is more important to him than the trade we get back. The best chance of a decent return is if he goes to a club that plays fair at the trade table.

Hard to enjoy a GF if the Dees aren't there. That aside. Lopsided game. Tigers deserved their win. I'm jealous.

Thanks for the info. Wondering how it can only be 6. Goodwin said earlier this year that Roos had allowed him to be involved in and make list management decisions since arriving end of 2014. (In 2016 Roos was well and truly gone by trade/draft time). So how can we only have 6 on the list if a decent part of the list have been selected by the current Football Department including Goodwin...

Crikey, if Hogan is not an 'untradeable' it must be a very, very short list - like about 3 players on it. While I get the principle that any player is tradeable for the right deal, it suggests the club doesn't think too much of our list. And if Hogan went even for top dollar it would be like starting a mini list rebuild again. Scary thought!