dpositive

Thanks again KC Look forward to your usual thorough summary

Sorry AC I was really not being critical and did commence with a request for similar discussion on Spencer as I was impressed with your approach . I also referenced the Chaos theory to impart my belief in statistics to expose trends so I fully support you and genuinely did take pleasure in reading your arguments. There was no lack of credibility from me as I thought your arguments gave me support for my opinion

Ok Im game I would like to see your story on Spencer I do recognise that stats dont tell the whole story and may even be manipulated But I do support the Chaos theory that states there is order in Chaos. Given enough data you can indeed discover trends and pattern that are replicated. And I have appreciated your patient and thorough exposure of your opinion supported by some factual references. I reckon Dunn probably goes half right too and its a pity we cant see how he would go with some different coaching influences. ie different structure and tactics to exploit his strengths. but I think thats called modelling and is subject to the same manipulation as your statistics

Many thanks to everyone who has contributed The conversation of divergent views has shown how complex this issue is I am probably now more confused but certainly more intruiged and far more cautious in proffering any uninformed opinion Still happy to offer scurrilous or provocative comment. Unfortunately not clever enough to provide intentional humour quickly enough

Wont happen must "stop the boats"

yeah not a bad effort, probably had the same thought about Mike and it would be an interesting excercise for him to do sim,ilar feature on MFC I think I probably prefer Martin Flannagan pieces which have reflected alot of the circumstances in real time rather than a retrospective. Also interesting to note that this concentrates on the culture of the bad and there is no examination of the culture of the good that led to the five flags maybe that is what should be examined by us I recko we can alll recognise the demise how do we get the success?????

OK should have said dont agree entirely But thanks for your reasoned response and this time I do agree It certainly is "different strokes for different folks" as a mate of mine used to always say I still reckon there are some players who might benefit from the involvement and some who may be better off well away as you say Neil Craig may be just the best bloke to make that decision

Dont agree BB I was interested that despite your dismissal of Casey you still say "we are out in straight sets" The season has been long and a disaster but I would have the boys all at the Casey games to support and get the excitement of finals participation as an incentive to perform after the well earned break that you are correct in identifying. Definitely instruct them to have some fun maybe return to their roots where they were/ are still a recognised success maybe do something that will give them their confidence back. They could come up here at [censored] me at squash if they wanted I am sure I could give them some morale boosting ideas.

I reckon all our players could be well served to read the Age article on Rance . It probably wouldmt do the coaches any harm either As coaching exercise It would be interesting to get a response from each player individually and to consolidate this into a feedback exercise including coaches thoughts So many aspects of this article could begin a process of self examination and improvement Oh well

You are right maybe its the coaches who need to be trained this could be a good approach to the umpires I only say this as we are obviously doing something wrong Alerting the umpires to this may make them reappraise the way they handle Melbourne matches Ie they may watch the opposition tactics more closely to see if they are also infringing

Agree with most of this RL have said before that we need to approach the umpires board and ask their advice on what we are doing wrong ie not criticising just asking advice.

in the solitude of my isolation I feel there is more to this than is being revealed even as more and more is being released. We are still unsure about the actual doping ASADA and WADA investigations which began the story. Investigation of Sharks Rugby and other players and criminal involvement was mentioned initially Danks Mission etc were revealed from that process Danks Mission had involvement with other AFL clubs including Geelong from memory Thomson and his mate were strongly influenced by other clubs percieved actions. Essendon certainly seems to have few records of their practices Players at Essendon may have to take action in the future as issues arise and Essendon would have no defence records There may well be broader use of drug cocktails within the AFL than has been revealed publically. Other clubs may not be ready to disclose their practices All may just want this to go away But then I am just a conspiracy theorist who reckons we were the public example of action on tanking even tho many other sides had the same development practices, and that the Dees could win more games if the AFL would instruct the umpires to award us free kicks for in the back, above the shoulders and tackles where the ball is incorrectly disposed, while allowing latitude for our inexperience if they really wanted too Sorry just being a bit silly

Yeah some fair comment It may be we need to clean some of the list only the coach knows if players are meting the requirements they have for the game and the team If they dont and cant then decision is to let them go. Experience is the key and I dont expect all players to be consistent. I expect the coach to know who is up and who needs to be rested, who would benefit from a success at a lower level versus defeat at a higher level. I have been saying for a long time it is about using the full squad not just the best 22, Its the coaches job to know who and when. Craig may not have had sufficient time since Neeld but was part of that regime and should have had a greater knowledge of performance. He may be meeting the board requirements but I am not sure he is meeting mine and other supporters. at least he hasnt communicated that satisfactorily to me, I said on other posts and repeat in context of your comment I think we need an improvement in our game day coaching . both in selection match ups etc and movements as game progresses. Flexibility in strategies during a game has been something we seemed to lack since the days of Neil Balme. I was pleased that Craig has atleast shown some of this game day flexibility but was mystified by his use of Watts at the Suns game and it seems similar against Freo. But again only the coach can know the reasons for those actions. But it doesnt really seem to have provided the success supporters like me want

See craig for top job thread

I supported the appointment of Neeld as a new coach from a successful club with some new approaches to our developing list. I thought the combination with Craig was inspired the older sports development role to support and mentor the younger How wrong I was I was critical of Neeld "its the coach" after watching too many of his game day strategies and tactics result in no improvement and a degredation of the players skills and confidence. I was happy to see what Craig could do but have been disappointed with some aspects of his performance while acknowledging he is in a somewhat conflicted position. I dont think I need to spell that out as it has been presented well by others previously. I still maintain "its the coach" I would like to continue Craigs involvement in the senior advisory role he was appointed to but how this would be accepted by the candidates is also an important point. Roos brought a new approach of team culture building to sydney and it worked with the structure and players he had. He used those players to cajole, inspire, produce a durable successful game plan and team with the ultimate success Eade was partly responsible for establishing that team and had a similar outcome at Doggies where he was successful but never achieved the ultimate Williams took a club with immense history and pride . He has seemed quite unstable at times but an unorthodox approach has seemed to work well. He had a mixed blend of players young old skilled and workhorses and managed to get them to produce to their maximum and won the ultimate prize. He has had mixed reviews since then but is still recognised as contributing to success. We have a development coach. some would say the best, in Craig, we appear to lack a game day strategist and coach I am not a coach UH but reckon BB Akum and others have pointed to some significant game day shortcomings. It might be with the benefit of hindsight but certainly my own restricted viewings have had me bellowing in frustration on game day . True we do not know the inner workings of the club and especially of the players and therefore what is expected of them but it obviously aint working and that is the coaches responsibility. We cannot have a cleanout of all players and I would suggest we dont need to but there are some glaring cases of inconsistency and these should be adressed by the coach with the development coach I have proposed Ling as a prospect. He has current credibility and a knowledge of the game which he is still developing in his current role but he may prove to be a valuable investment in the right environment, I do not think we can afford with the current fragile state of our players confidence to do anything other than have a coach with a credible and current record that the current young group will recognise and aspire to. That they will respect Choco and Ling for me has it all I doubt wether these two would collectively work with Craig but if they could and did it would be fantastic. recognition of development recognition of inspiration and just a crazy edge of unorthodoxy Yeah I know Im not a coach so it probably doesnt mean much but I have played and followed sport all my life I have had some success and some failure. I have worked and studied in employment relations with similar results. I know that you learn as much from failure as you do success. I know that these matters must be managed so that you are able to seize any opportunityand benefit from it I think we have seen that Neeld was not the right fit and now that Craig is not the right fit. We cannot however afford to get it wrong and my suggestion may not work I just hope the club are looking at as many combinations and attributes as possible to get it right I am encouraged by both Jackson and Bartlett who have recognised skills and abilities to do this I follow Melbourne with a passion and am waiting for the ultimate success I hope they can recognise these desires and more importantly communicate the reasons for their decisions. Sorry a bit of topic as the emotion got to me In short I dont think Craig is the answer I am not a coach UH but i think BB and Akum and others have shown some serious analysis

lost the last few minutes of the presentation but liked what I saw Very professional approach outlining personal and club situation in a concise manner. Good introduction 'Footy first' "Respect" "Ruthless" Pity about the mention to that days game with the knowledge of what happened, but maybe next time Melb can be the goliath Hope the players get to view this presentation so they understand what they must do to make this more than just words And of course the coaching issue must be the most vital to reinforce all his comments GO DEES

its the coaches job to get the soft c...ck playing culture changed. If JW refused to compete its the coaches job to recognise that and do something about it. If they put hands out for undeserved pay check then its the coaches job to identify that and rectify it.

Havent seen any of the game and only going on Dland site Still have to say its the coach The coach needs to get better output from Watts. Yes I know Viney seems able to generate his own intensity and thank god for him but Watts is a different article. Theres more than enough in the Watts threads to indicate the frustration with him but watching him live last week at Gold coast it is obvoius he has sublime skills in delivery. Thats not much use when the opponents kick over or around him as happened at GC or if hes so deep in defence that it makes it a little futile. Why Magner can be left getting the ball at Casey and isnt being used to get it for Watts to deliver is beyond me Its the coach we dont tackle well its the coach We dont run hard enough Its the coach We dont seem to have a great game plan or plans its the coach We dont have players in the best position its the coach we dont seem to use the squad all that well its the coach we dont have the best selection its the coach The players are not switched on when they take the filed its the coach Dont think I have to go on its the coach The players are all selected from the same pool as other clubs they all have different skills and different motivators the coach is the critical element We must get this right extensive and intensive analysis of the group and the candidates will get the right result and turn it around as with other clubs Sorry end of rant

Thanks again KC for this report and your blow by blow account It must have been pleasing tapping out all those goals for a change. Magner and Toumpas seem to offer games of contrast amazing that it seems so succesful at Casey but can't be even tried at AFL level. Hope the side is allowed to play with its strongest side all season through the finals. A good experience for the players to get some confidence and hopefully taste flag victory.

Fantastic to see a positive report from the club Really liked the football history he brings knowing this can translate into the passion for the dees many see as critical. Seems he has the ability to engage and involve in all club aspects and may have some ideas about culture. Particularly liked the reference "Glen also has significant experience in advising government and corporations with respect to outsourcing, insourcing and associated implications under the Fair Work Act 2009. Glen provides tailored and general client training courses regarding Managing Employees' Performance and Conduct; Investigator Officer training and Enterprise Bargaining training." these would seem magnificent skill sets for our current situation. Hopefully he can utilise his skills in overseeing the correct coach player alignment and in ensuring trading and recruiting are conducted in an effective and efficient fashion to see a return on investment. Performance match payments. with training and performance experience he may have a greater nsight into the clubs development issues than many others or be able to outsource or insource appropriate skills Another dawn lets hope we can see some evidence of success

For such a natural leap it would be fantastic to see him get enough delivery into our forward line to learn how to avoid being blocked. Maybe if he played and stayed deep when Hogan Dawes and Clarke led out there may be better opportunities for him. I still reckon a rotating forward line with those three constantly moving forward and back could provide attacking options that would be very difficult to defend. Needs someone like Watts kicking precisely tho

Good on you and scoop for extending the demon support line I always enjoy your comments and can remember seeing Scoop jnr on the land Congrats for the marriage and may there be many more demons to come They can even support liverpool if they want

Not sure about the well coached strategically. Certainly an improvement and some flexibility but watts in defence in last quarter when suns kicked around him and we needed someone to finish in the front end was an obvious fail. On the other hand the treatment on Ablett rotations and constant niggling by all players was a master coaching tactic. At least and at last some positive signs

Master there was definitely a keener edge to the game on saturday any player who went near Gablett left there arm hanging out to wind him and there was a fair bit of flying the flag in the scuffles Seemed a fairly cohesive and supportive team most of the night. A couple of the suns breaks did occur as players got loose coz their opponent was looking after his mates As we won evrywhere but on the scoreboard I thought this wasnt a bad thing although it frustrated me at the time

Even without the history ??? of the two the incident looked perhaps accidental/deliberate in real time and did have significant result In replay it certainly looked deliberate the review panel should take action on the result alone they should be seen to take action to protect the head as the result could have been significantly worse.