Hannabal

I'd replace the term "brawlers" with "hard nosed pros". Joel Selwood is a HNP. Other examples include Bartel, Ball, Milburn, and Lenny Hayes. Judd has become one. Geelong was full of them and the great Brisbane sides had plenty. To be perfectly honest, right now we don't have one. We potentially do in Trengove, Frawley, Grimes, Tapscott and a few others. EDIT: how could I not mention one of my favourite players in Luke Hodge ? In fact, look at my favourite players and what do they have in common ? It's fair to say that I like talent with a hard edge. How ironic that I follow a side of softies.

A great win in the middle of the H&A season means diddly if the gameplan crumbles under finals like pressure. Relying on precision footskills to penetrate zones in finals isn't playing the percentages. Run and spread is important, but not to the point where you completely lose your structure on the turnover. I agree with your remaining points.

It's as important how you structure up when you don't have the ball as when you do. The best teams defend space by presses and zones, and play 'man on man' footy to maximize extreme pressure on the ball carrier when not in possession.

We played with far more urgency and defensive pressure on the midfield ball carrier last year. McKenzie has been a big loss.

What game plan ? Old, you and other long time posters have a tendency to immediately want to support the club and coach in everything. I'll support the club too, but I'll also question the club. Bailey doesn't give me any confidence whatsoever that he knows how to develop a plan that will win a flag. Viney admitted that they haven't spent much time on game plans, but instead player development. So in Bailey's 4th year there's not been a concentration on a gameplan ? That's laughable. Besides, what Bailey is (possibly) developing in 2011 may be off the pace by 2014. Look how much the game has already changed this year from last. How about relying on some fundamentals that will help you remain competitive, get the ball into your forward 50 and allow you to dominate sides like Brisbane ? Btw, Brisbane nearly won the game because they were better drilled and organised that us. I've always been an advocate of tough and uncompromised 'man on man' footy. Gameplans will always vary around those parameters, but they are essential traits in finals footy and I don't see that our players are well drilled in those areas. We play soft unaccountable footy. Hardly a recipe for a flag. Continue the cheerleading ...

The best drilled sides employ full presses in an attempt to keep the ball in their forward 50. We don't employ an 18 man zone and nor do we adopt a full press. We try and penetrate the press with precise kicking off half back either through the corridor or a switch of play, but unfortunately our reliance on precision footskills means that we get hurt on the transition through turnovers. Our inability to penetrate well organised sides leads to a lack of inside 50's. We're not well drilled and we lose our structure too easily. Opposition sides revert to 'man on man' footy when they're not in possession. We don't play nearly enough 'man on man' footy when the opposition have the ball. I'm underwhelmed by Bailey's game plan and believe that he's been caught off guard during the off season. In an article 3 weeks ago Todd Viney says, "We’re still a developing team and we’re not in the premiership window yet; if we were an older team and in the premiership window, greater time would be spent on tactics and game-plan." No-one would have considered Essendon to be in premiership mode, but unlike Bailey, Hird decided to have the best drilled side he could. Essendon adopt a full press and make it exceedingly difficult for the opposition to get the ball out of their back half. All of their player know the structures and work in unison. Simple, but effective drills have them playing with certainty and confidence. Confidence has led to a hunger and a fierce attack on the footy. So those on this thread lauding our "different style" perhaps need to think again. We've simply been caught off guard and haven't given tactics, structure and gameplan the time it deserved. Thanks Dean.

For someone who occasionally posts well that's a silly post. We all wish Watts well and hope he'll become a great. No-one would be disappointed and we've all seen the talent. I was an advocate of drafting him having seen him play live a number of times at the u18 champs. He's coming from a long way back. Not so far back that he won't be a good player, but I'll be amazed if he becomes the star the club earmarked.

Watts avoids certain situations on a footy field where others that have gone before him have craved it. You talk of being 20 ? Kernahan was a star in SA at 20 - kicked 10 in a State match against the Vics and was runner up in the Magarey Medal, Locket was a star at 20, Carey was a star at 20, Brereton was a star at 20, Lloyd kicked 63 goals at 20, Riewoldt won a B&F at 20, Salmon was a star at 19 kicking 63 goals (pre knee), our own David Neitz started out as a skinny kid, but he had courage in spades and made All Australian at 20. This is an important year for Watts. He needs to start showing an apptetite for the contest. You don't need to be built like a gorilla to demand the ball, to show fierce determination and intensity, or to put your body on the line. But by all means, keep making excuses.

I've made excuse after excuse after excuse for Watts, just like many of you have in this thread, but I also recognise that there are worrying signs and that I'd be a fool to deny them. If Watts ends up being a star, which is why he was drafted at pick 1, he's coming from a looooong way back. At his age, yes all of 20, I can't remember any key forward ever coming from as far back to go on and be a genuine AFL great. People often site Nick Riewoldt when talking about Watts, but Riewoldt won the NAB Rising Star and a B&F in his second year. The comparison is absurd. Watts' lack of any physicality and the way he looks so unlikely in pack marking contests is of major concern. I think the most surprised person at the G when he took his terrific contested mark against Hawthorn was himself. I see a good AFL player, but the odds are stacked against him being the star we craved.

I remember Kirk tagging Jones at the MCG and it staggered me at the time. Tell me other times that Jones has been tagged ? There may have been a couple because either McLean was injured or there was no other midfielder that warranted attention, but it would be a rare occurence. Rather than rely on comments from people such as Roos, use your own eyes. Jones doesn't warrant a tag. Last week in only his 4th game Gysberts played better than any one of Jones' 90 odd. Gysberts is clean, has footy nous, knows where to run and was regularly the last player up from the bottom of a pack. You don't need to be Norm Smith to already know that he's a couple of class levels above Jones.

I've never been more confident of Scully staying, to the point where I now don't even contemplate him leaving.

You needed Brereton to tell you ?

I watched 'On the couch' last night and heard Roos' comments. I immediately had visions of some of my Demonland brethren jumping over couches and banging into hallways in their rush to get to a keyboard. Needless to say it brought a wry smile. I may be a tad harsh on Jones. I had such high expectations when we drafted him at pick 12, but the realisation that he'll never be elite (A grade), or even reach B grade status, such as Luke Ball, is disappointing. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, he does have some excellent traits, such as a strong body, immense courage, elite endurance and he's a great trainer. At 22 and with 90 odd games there's still time, but I just don't see the creativity or footy smarts required. Up until this year I had Jobe Watson as a B grader, so perhaps my rating system is harsher than some of you. I rate with premierships in mind. Marc Murphy is a B grader, but some here would argue that Jones is too. If you want a laugh go try telling other supporters that Nathan Jones is as good as Marc Murphy. And if you think that Murphy is an A grader you're premature. Paul Roos has a great record of turning a sow's ear into a silk purse, so who knows, perhaps he could transform Jones into a B grader. I suspect I've seen more of Jones than Roos. Footy is an opinion business and coaches often get it wrong. Look at the recent recruiting by Voss as an example. In fact the game is littered with terrible trading by clubs where opposition coaches got it wrong. And when I say "got it wrong", it's fair enough that Roos rates Jones, but to use Jones as his example of "one of the games most underrated players" is ludicrous. There was a reason that Jones was dropped late last year only to get a reprieve when there was a late ommission. I doubt Roos even knows that Jones was borderline best 22 as recently as last August. And what has Jones done this year ? One semi decent game. In his first two games he gathered 16 possessions in each. It's just not enough. It's a very underrated skill to find the footy, but it seemingly rarely gets mentioned. Jones has never won enough possessions. I don't overly rate Moloney, but at least he has an ability to get his hands on the footy. People will use games where he's tagged to excuse his low numbers, but plenty of taggers get a lot of the footy. Roos also said recently that he rates Brad Miller. He's got that wrong too. If Miller had smashed packs like Hurley does he'd have been of value this year in our forward line, but for a mature body he just didn't hit packs. I suspect Roos is remembering a couple of good games from Miller in defence on Hall. Roos also stated a couple of weeks back that he rated McLean when they were discussing Carlton's list. Once again I disagree. McLean's lack of pace and average handballing isn't condusive to the game in 2011. I reckon that one of McLean's best ever games was at the SCG against Sydney in early 2005. I vividly remember McLean winning the hard ball in the centre and running straight towards 50 to kick a couple of impressive goals. Like his views on Miller, I reckon Roos has this game in the back of his mind when referencing McLean. Last week Roos said that we made a mistake getting rid of McDonald and Bruce. Again I disagree. McDonald was 34 and Bruce well past his best. Making finals this year isn't significant to me, but getting games into the kids of our future is.

There wouldn't be one team in the league that fears Melbourne, including the Suns.

Fair enough, but I've never felt so deflated after a win. Tactically we're inept and we've been caught off guard with the changes to the game over the off season. I recognise the talent we have, but I despair as to the coaching.

I love Gysberts. Footy nous and he has a go. I was watching him today and felt sorry for the bugger that he ended up playing with such a soft side.

I've been an advocate of getting games into Watts, but I recognise that he also needs to earn games; and right now he's not deserving. I can see the point of him going on an interstate trip and playing against other Kids, but I'd also like to see him playing for Casey where he currently belongs.

Melbourne were pathetic today. I felt sick in the guts as people sang the song and looked happy around me.

A typical game from a C grader. Some of you are easily pleased, or just poor watchers of football.

I read on another thread where Melb supporters referred to some fellow supporters as Nathan Jones "haters". It's unfortunate that anyone who doesn't believe that Jones is up to it is labelled his hater. I don't believe that Jones is, or will ever be, more than a C grader, but I hardly "hate" him. I admire his courage, work ethic, training disciplines, and believe that he's doing everything to make the most of his footy career. I was a huge advocate of recruiting Jones with pick 12 when we drafted him in 2005. I have a PM from Craig Cameron where he refers to Jones as "your boy". So it's not with any glee that the player that I had such high hopes for just isn't good enough to play footy for a top 4 side (imo), which is obviously what we aspire to be. Despite some peoples opinions Jones' pace is fine, the problem rests with his decision making, skill, and creativity. He just doesn't have the footy nous of the best midfielders. He still turns the footy over through skill errors and poor decisions. It would be great if he had the ability of an inside mid such as Sammy Mitchell, but unfortunately there's a chasm between the two. He was drafted in the same year as Pendlebury and Marc Murphy. Pendlebury is an A grader and Murphy is on the cusp of being one. Some will say that it's unfair to compare Jones to those two, but I'm trying to highlight the quality of other mids the same age as Jones and where we need to elevate our midfield to compete with the best teams. Scully, Trengove, and Gysberts have the potential to reach A grade status, but they need to be complimented with quality B graders. Unfortunately we lose too much when players such as Jones are rotated into the middle. I accept that right now we need Jones, because he at least has a larger body, but if Jones is still making the best 22 in 3 years time then we won't be a top 4 calibre side. I've been watching ordinary Melb sides for 30 years. Some have been better than others and played finals, but none have had any real success. I no longer have any joy watching players like Jones run around, because I know that they can't take us to a flag. Building a premiership quality team is of paramount importance to me as a supporter and I assume most others. Some here will argue that we can win a flag with Jones in the team and that he's improved, etc., but clearly I disagree. To highlight the gulf between Jones and Pendlebury/Murphy have a look at their careers to date, but more importantly look how the gap has even widened when you take into account last year. The disparity between Jones and the other two is marked over their careers, but the second link only highlights how that gulf is widening. http://finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare.asp?SeasonID=&SelectedPlayers=1676,1656,1620,&Compare=Go&Sort=AverageRating Desc http://finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare.asp?SeasonID=2010&SelectedPlayers=1676,1656,1620,&Compare=Go&Sort=AverageRating Desc I don't hate Jones, far from it, but I have such passion to produce a premiership quality side that it's fair to say that I have little fondness for what are the cricket equivalent of trundlers that form part of the side; and that's exactly what Jones is.

Yes, the bench named now has nothing to do (necessarily) with the offical bench named 90 minutes before the match. I would have thought that this was common knowledge by now. Also, the sub may not necessarily be one of those that's named on the bench today.

It looks like you me and Bhima watched the same show. It also highlighted that Bailey's tactics are behind other clubs and that our gameplan won't cut it in finals or against the best teams. It all gets back to our mediocre midfield and poor defensive pressure. McKenzie is sorely missed.

There's a tendency for many on this site to immediately try and defend the club from any criticism. Some tend to knee-jerk one way and others are wired to knee-jerk the other. I'd like to think that I judge things on their merits. Recruiting is an inexact science and mistakes will always be made. It's impossible to have a perfect track record. Prendergast will get some right and no doubt he's already got some wrong. All recruiters live with this fact. But it doesn't mean that they're beyond scrutiny. My Brother went to the unusual lengths of writing to Prendergast imploring him to draft Hannebery with either the Blease or Strauss pick such was his confidence and knowledge of Hannebery as a player. Last year Tim Harrington inquired with Dan's Father Matt over lunch (a friend of Harrington's) as to Dan's availability at the conclusion of his contract. Such is life, mistakes happen. I like the look of Cook, and it's way too early to judge, but I will say that it's a pity that Watts doesn't have Darling's mind. I love Darling's competitiveness.

It's not the first time you've plagiarised me. And you speak of disingenuity ? As far as under-performing players go, I've spent more time on here decrying the efforts of players than most - well before your time. No-one has mentioned our lack of stars more than me and no-one has graded our players more harshly than me, so save your breath for those that need it. Where were you when I lambasted the footy dept five years ago for rewarding Davey with a third in the B&F when he didn't put his body on the line and wouldn't front on tackle ? As I said, save your breath. Daniher set a terrible example for the rest of the playing group with those rewards. Even a dullard knows that Bailey doesn't deserve praise for our on-field exploit. Noticeably, yet understandably, you don't answer any of my points. Coaches receive the accolades when their teams perform, so it's only reasonable that the reverse applies in the midst of a disorganised and poorly drilled rabble. Well drilled and coached teams don't concede 19 effective scoring shots in one quarter and 75 inside 50's to 35 - amidst a continued deplorable trend in that regard. When will you consider that this side is tactically inept ?

He's been praised for clearing plenty of dead wood over the last 3 years. In fact, I recall saying that off field he has hardly put a foot wrong. However on field he has virtually no runs on the board. He'll get praise when it's deserved. Right now his team is disorganised and poorly drilled. For that he takes the credit.