Hannabal

Now you've hurt my feelings Btw, it's "you're".

I'll upset the nuffies on here, but I rate Alwyn better. He's yet to play 20 games, but has already shown more in the midfield and is genuinely tougher. I'm yet to see Aaron stand up in a big game. Perhaps friday night is his chance. That said, I don't rate either terribly highly just yet, but Alwyn has decent upside.

It's hardly your point. Most footy stupid supporters think he's a poor kick.

Thankfully, your opinion doesn't count. He's a very good kick.

The Essendon Davey is harder and more a mid than ours. I can see benefits as we could do with more midfield pace, but I'm not too fussed either way. Bye bye Mark

I'd argue that it doesn't need much improvement at all.

I'm astonished that the supporters on this site have no real clue as to the gem they have on their hands.

I momentarily felt sick when I read that Newton had been signed for two years. Our lack of young KP forwards saved his sorry arse.

I doubt Zaharakis will be top 15, but I really like him. And he has more pace than our slow mids. I wouldn't call him 'dime a dozen', but I know where you're coming from.

You obviously mean Greg Wells, but unfortunatey he won't be half the player. But I understand the resemblance.

There's no doubt that he needs to eradicate that aspect of his game as he gains confidence and physically develops. I cut him slack because he's a first year player and a far better footballer than CJ. If he's doing it in his 3rd and 4th years I'll be dismayed. The credits don't last forever.

Yes, I reckon he'll go top 25, maybe even first round, but as stated, the knock on him is his kicking. He's a beautifully smoothe mover though and ticks lots of boxes. He has good upside I would have thought.

Not as good. That said, he moves well and is quite highly rated. When I saw him twice he just murdered it by foot, but you can see the class.

Don't get the impression that I want to trade half the list, or that I'll be terribly disappointed if CJ remains, as neither are true. CAC used to say that trading is overrated and I tend to agree. I also agree that there's little point trading unless you're pretty confident of improving your position. Which begs the question, how is this draft rated and how deep is it ? People scoff at pick 40 yet are pleased with Colin Garalnd who was recruited with a later pick. The first 25 in this draft are considered very good with it being quite interchangeable from 12-25 dependent upon a clubs needs or perceived rating. I'm all for trading an oversupply, or those that are stalled. I love Bartram's guts and aggression, but in truth he lacks class and will only take us so far. Also, he has probably little trade value, and when I say value, I mean inside top 40, so for that reason he'll remain. Carroll won't get you a piece of burnt toast. Dunn at least has size and height, and despite my concerns he's presently worth keeping and developing. I'd trade Sylvia for pick 25, but would you get that much for him ? He has great natural ability, but no talent. The scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz has a better brain. I want Robbie Warnock and CJ is from W.A so there's at least some synergy in that scenario. Whilst it would never be a straight swap perhaps something could be packaged. Also, it's not difficult to replace an average hbf, especially when Petterd and Grimes will be on the horizon in 09. With a potential backline consisting of Garland (who can play tall or small), Martin, Warnock, Whelan, Wheatley, Petterd, and Grimes, I see no great heartburn without CJ. You talk of oversupply, which is what I consider CJ. I purposely didn't include Bell. I agree that some players have excellent upside and developmental possibilities. I also know that players are kept too long in the belief that they'll come good. CJ does have skill, which is in his favour. But remember, it's all well and good wanting to keep those with perceived upside and trade those that are going downhill or have stalled, but how stupid do you think the rest of the competition is ? There comes a point when a player has no value. The key is too offer something a little tasty, accept that they may go elsewhere and play well, but know that you have adequate replacements and also have a good understanding of how you can spend the proceeds. It's why the best list managers are paid very well.

I stated that CJ was soft because he has demonstrated on numerous occasions a propensity to shirk contests in the air and on the ground. Once a player has shown this side of their makeup it's a long way back for me. Granted his attack on the ball has been better of late, but I'll not easily forget what I consider to be major flaws in his football character. When the heat is really on in a final what sort of performance is CJ going to give his teammates ? Because if you can't perform in a final you're as useful as a cold pie. I'm not sure if supporters understand the diference in pressure between a regular home and away match and a final. The difference is night and day. Now, if you have never witnessed these instances of extreme tepidness that I refer to then I can understand your angst at the angle I'm coming from. However, the great past and present players you refer to are typical outside footballers, but that doesn't make them soft. Plenty of players aren't 'first dibs' footballers, or even 'predators', but it doesn't mean that they shirk contests, or don't go when it's their turn. I don't believe that you've presented good examples for your 'soft' argument. The concerns that I have for CJ are similar to the concerns that I've held for Dunn, Davey, and Bruce - less so for the latter as I don't believe that he gets found out as much as the others in a quality game, but it's still a concern. Btw, I get no joy potting players and want success more, or as much as, anyone here, but I'm prepared to call it as I see it. And if it's old fashioned to think that there's no room for players in finals that don't keep their head over the ball, or go lower at the contest than their opponent, then so be it, guilty as charged, but I've seen no evidence to suggest the contrary. I've only seen a lack of footy nous on this website to understand what it takes to deliver when it matters most. As for PJ ? I have concerns there as well. So some of you need to have a glass of water before reading on at the risk of hyperventilating. PJ is a handy footballer, but he doesn't dominate in any one position. He's not a dominant ruckman, he's not a dominant key position forward or back, and he can't dominate as a tall midfielder. I'm not sure if a top team, which we aspire to be, can afford to have a player that doesn't have one position on the ground in which he (occasionally) dominates. I do have a caveat though. He can perhaps be a handy second fiddle to a dominant ruckman and a side with a dominant key forward. Presently we have neither. For me, Jamar and PJ don't work, but I can see PJ being a handy foil for a first class ruckman. I think that if we can attract Robbie Warnock over that PJ could be an adequate back up and provide a difficult match up as he pushes forward, but we need a classy dominant ruckman around the ground to enable PJ to stretch the opposition. And that aint Jamar.

No, Col goes hard at the man with the ball, not the ball itself. Unfortunately.

You presented an argument ? I thought that it was a cheap, throw away and ill informed comment and treated it accordingly. Did I miss half a post ? Guide me to it.

Rubbish And I've always acknowledged that there are degrees of everything. But as stated > Rubbish

I don't disagree with too much of that, although I'd argue that we kept Godfrey, Lamb, Nicholson, Smith, Jamar, Ward, Bizzell, Yze, Ferguson, Armstrong ... for too long. Other clubs have shown that you need to keep turning the list over whilst keeping a core of good experienced players and promising youth. Daniher was too wedded to certain favourites and mistakenly thought that we were still a flag chance when in reality the window had already closed. We are paying for that incorrect interpretation now. We kept mediocre depth players longer than we should have, but I understand the rationale of the time. In the main though, I suspect that we're disagreeing at the edges. There are some players I'd move on, such as CJ, that others are loathe to see go. I also won't be too disappointed if he stays as every club needs a certain amount of depth. But for me he's quite expendable. I also don't rate Dunn or Bell. I doubt we'd get better than pick 40 for CJ, so in that regard he may be better value still on the list. Pick 40 would do me though. If it came down to CJ or Petterd on a back flank in 09 it's a no brainer. For me anyway.

There's much that makes a finals team. And sure, there are the Hunt's of Geelong that embarrass themselves to live another day. Thankfully for him he has a deadly left foot. But there are always tried and true non negotiables in footy. Port Adelaide are the only recent premier that didn't have the typical hard mature bodies of all other recent flag winners. But even they had Hardwicke, Pickett, and Francou. You should try learning what it takes to succeed in september. And yes, Davey is a worry. I've said for years that he's unlikely to stand up in a big game or final and I'm yet to be proven incorrect. This club has a very long way to go to build a premiership list and many of the revered darlings on here will be hurt along the way. C'est la vie. It's the price of success. Even footy stupid supporters will learn to live with it. I think.

So why were there no takers for him last year when he was put up for trade ? It was widely known he was on the table, but fifteen clubs didn't scramble to get him, although the Saints had a nibble. But in the end they preferred Dempster, etc But a few good games sate the appetite of the unthinking supporter, such as yourself. Well done. It's a wonder we're last with so many fine players. This club has kept mediocre footballers for far too long. It's the major reason we're in the position we're currently in. So who would you let go, Einstein, and what do you think you'd get for them ? Try and find that thinking cap.

I brought up Brett Lovett cos I was a fan. He had fantastic evasive skills, a great footy brain, and was a beautiful handballer on his left. He was also dumped by Hawthorn because of his lack of legspeed. Did this lack of legspeed hinder his footy ? No, because his smart footy brain and quick swivel of the hips ensured he always got away. But he was slow. Don't respond again. You bore me.

Mate I've seen enough deficiencies at the MFC to last me a lifetime, and no you can't trade them all. And I'm not advocating that, but I also understand that there are certain attributes that are required to stand up to the heat in finals, even if we are some years away from presenting again. CJ has traits that I believe will be shown up when it matters most and the pressure is at its fiercest. Others disagree ? Fine.

Because he's soft.

I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge your mistake on the " Greg Williams legspeed" comment. Dill