Hannabal

I'm not overly fussed if we win or lose tonight, but I'd like to see some consistent effort. You can have effort even if your 8 goals down. Fwiw, I think we'll win.

It's easy to analyse a sheet of paper, but unfortunately games aren't played on one. I'll have no problem if we lose most games for the rest of the year, as long as the effort is consistent and we structure the side in a fashion which gives it the best possibility of entering the forward 50 and keeping the ball there when it arrives. Not everyone complains about good losses, but some like to make excuses for poor ones. Maybe you're included.

My own personal little follower. How cute. Wtf are you talking about now wonderboy ?

If you don't think that Bennell is as soft as butter then I don't know what you look at when you go to the footy.

Why do you think that Bailey is a really good coach ?

You're aware that similar words are used by supporters of other clubs every single day ? These words could have come from a Richmond, North, or Port Adealide forum. Not as much North, as even though they're crud they usually have a dip, but you get my point. Rinse and repeat. I believe that our best 22-25 next year will be very good and play some terrific football. I just hope they're in the hands of a better tactician and more astute/hard nosed leader.

I'm not overly concerned by your sexual orientation and I only enquired if you were E (whatever no.), not YM, or anybody else. And no, I don't enjoy following a soft footy club. And I won't be an apologist for the club. I'll call it as I see it - good and bad. You call it kicking, I call it observing. I hate spin.

They've made a mistake and it's a mistake that will probably cost Bailey his job. It's one thing to focus on player development, but no player's development is helped by the scrutiny the club is now under. Or perhaps you think that a club that's devoid of confidence actually helps the development of its young players ? Everyone knows that we have a young group and have been cruelled by injuries, but it's not a crutch I'm prepared to give Bailey. We were poor before many of these injuries and we weren't prepared for the style of footy that was going to be played in 2011. There's plenty of fine balances in footy and Bailey has got this balance wrong. We have a run and spread gameplan that hasn't been focussed nearly enough on defence. Bailey carries the can for that. So you're saying that your not that E34 fella, or whatever his number is ? Your nose is growing.

Funniest line of the morning has to go to Dermie when he said that when the Melbourne forward line come in to the change rooms they empty the ice out of the bathtubs because they won't need them. The club has been embarrassed and will probably come out breathing fire against the Bombers. It will be funny watching Jurrah, Watts, Morton and Bennell trying to throw their weight around. Comical stuff.

Who said that no time had been spent on gameplan ? Didn't you read Viney's quote ? He said that if they were in a premiership window more time would be spent on it. You only had to attend the first few games to see that we didn't press. This part of the game has seen Melbourne greatly exposed early in the season. And for this Bailey wears the blame. He takes credit when it's deservedly due and conversely he cops the heat when his lack of foresight has been exposed. Btw. you're that E34 (?) fella, aren't ya ? You just started posting and suddenly, like him, you live on here. You've got his annoying style.

Todd Viney said in an article he penned preseason "if we were an older team and in the premiership window, greater time would be spent on tactics and game-plan". Given the scrutiny they've been under all year about their gameplan I've got no doubt that they're trying to implement a press, but it won't be done to great effect in 2011. The press isn't a structure that is like a tap and just turned on at will without practice. West Coast have taken two years to get to the point where they're well drilled and organised in its implementation. Dean has been caught short over the preseason and is now playing catch-up. But it's difficult to do it well without having had meaningful process. What do you like about Dean and his coaching ? Is it the team's hardness ? Him playing plenty of kids ? What in particular makes you believe that he deserves an extension beyond his 4 years ? What convinces you that he has the ability deliver a flag ? I'm all ears. Btw, I'm sure you realise that most of us who have lost faith in Bailey have been very measured when discussing his performance over his first 3 years. Most have supported his direction. But there comes a time when if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it probably is ducked. I won't lose sleep over the MFC making a premature call on Bailey. I'm more interested in getting a proven coach to try and take this group to the next step. If that's unfair on Dean - diddums.

What ??? I have an open mind on whether we pressed a bit, a lot, or not at all. Geddy Lee said we did, so I took his view on face value. As I said, I haven't seen the game. It certainly wouldn't have surprised me if we didn't as there's been no evidence in any of the matches I've seen. You're an excitable sorta fella.

They may have pressed a bit. There had been saturation media coverage highlighting our lack of pressing, so it's not surprising if they had a team focus of pushing up and keeping the ball in our forward 50, but I wouldn't get too carried away by the Adelaide result, woud you ? Though I hear Brisbane really rate them. I don't have the replay Chuckles, so I'll have to take your expert word on it. Snigger.

I didn't go to the Adelaide game and nor have I seen the replay, but I was told that we didn't really press. Moloney had a day out with 19 clearances, we had over 80 tackles and the ball was in our 50 more than any game in the last few years. You say they pressed, but having not seen it first hand in any other match I struggle with the concept that they did it well in one game when they haven't looked like doing it in any other. And when Todd Viney says preseason that they haven't spent a whole lot of time on gameplan I'm inclined to disbelieve you and your assertion that we successfully implemented a press. Jamar and Moloney's effectiveness together with a good day all round may have confused you a little.

You couldn't understand it the first time ? But you're right. I have no real interest in others views on here as I don't rate most of them. I skim and occasionally read a few lines. My post could have randomly gone in a few, but I chose this thread. I should have chosen the "sack Bailey" thread. That said, let me say that he should coach for the rest of the year.

The Bailey apologists are a fascinating case study. What do they actually like about Bailey and his coaching ? He gets credit for clearing out the dead wood on the list. Big deal. Everyone knew it had to be done. He's remained remarkably calm and assure in the face of adversity and for that I give him credit. But it doesn't mean he's an astute coach. He came to the club as a very good development, or teaching coach. It was the right appointment at the time as we were going to build a team based on youth and quality draft picks. But four years on there's no right of passage to continue. There's no doubt that some players have improved during Bailey's tenure, but that's a bare mininum prerequisite, not a flag waving foot stomping unequivocal endorsement. Preseason Todd Viney admitted that not a lot of time had gone into the 'gameplan', instead more time had been spent on player development. And doesn't it show ? We're behind the competition when it comes to forward pressure and a frontal press. Bailey was caught with his pants down and is now trying to instill a gameplan that takes at least 6 months to grasp. Skinny Lappin is an assistant coach at Collingwood. He'd previously been an assistant at Carlton. He couldn't believe the difference in emphasis on defence at Collingwood when compared to Carlton. At Carlton they focussed 80% on attack and at Collingwood it was the reverse. Flags are built around defence. Lord knows what Lappin would make of the Melbourne gameplan. Dean loves run and spread, but unfortunately it's been at the expense of quality defensive structures. Yes the team is young and yes there are lots of injuries. But that in itself doesn't excuse insipid half hearted performances and a disorganised gameplan. The apologists like to rattle off two good games against Collingwood and a mauling of the Swans. In reality that's about all they can cling to. Do you reckon Matty Knights had a few of those type of performances ? Into his 4th year Bailey's players give up without a whimper. They have no mettle when the going gets tough. Too often they don't have a crack. He's had 75 games to stamp his authority on the playing group and yet no-one in the footy world thinks that Melbourne players like to get their hands dirty. What a fantastic legacy Dean. So I ask you ? Why do the apologists argue so passionately for Dean's retention ? What has he shown them that delivers this unwavering belief ? What motivates them ? They are either so steadfast in towing the company line that it wouldn't matter who was in charge they'd back them to the hilt, or they have a vested/personal interest. I won't out him, but I know that one of the apologists on here works part-time down at the club, so it's sort of understandable, but for the life of me I can't understand the others. After 4 years and 75 games why does Bailey command a contract extension ? Has he shown that he's the right man to lead this group to finals and that he has the tactical nous to win finals ? There are plenty of questions but no definitive answers. And after 4 years that's enough reason to look elsewhere.

Dean Bailey is a fantastic coach and he has my full support.

Dean Bailey is a fantastic coach and he has my full support. Dean Bailey is a fantastic coach and he has my full support.

*double facepalm*

My sig was on the back of lasts weeks miserable performance. The club has provided me with little for over 30 years. As Cam Schwab so aptly says losing evokes a state of misery. It's fair to say I've had my share. Having had no success in my lifetime is exceedingly disappointing, but like many I make excuses for the team's performances when the reasons are valid. Some make excuses all the time. But when the team structure and gameplan is hopelessly compromised and the players don't have a crack I stop making excuses. I look forward to the next few year's as I have genuine hope for some success. But it's a tough competition.

Not a lot. It may have been discussed, but he clearly hasn't been hands on in the FD, but it now appears he will. If he sits in the situation room on Sunday I'll certainly put little weight in what may have been discussed in March. I don't believe in coincidences when a club has had a week of crisis. Let's see what happens Sunday.

Could not agree less. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

The OP is right. I feared for the stick figures of Moloney, Sylvia, Davey and Jones in that first quarter and low and behold they didn't give a whimper. See, I was on to something. Funnily enough a second year player in Trengove managed to get his hands on it, but I put that down to right place right time. When confronted by brutes such as Shuey, Kerr, the two Selwoods, Rosa and Priddis I knew we didn't stand a chance. What mere mortals would ? And I agree that the bye was definitely a factor. Just because West Coast were also coming off a bye and didn't seem as flat as a teenage boy's chest means little. The lacklustre associated with the bye meant that we were never going to outnumber West Coast around the ball, or be able to penetrate their super human press. He's also right when he says that this Sunday is the true indication of where we're at. Just because we beat Adelaide at the G last year and that they've cleaned out senior players such as Goodwin, McLeod, Bock, and Edwards only to be replaced by a heap of kids means little as they're coming off a 'Good win'. Some might think that the following two matches against the Roos and Saints at our hoodoo ground Etihad against teams that have recently had our measure may be a more realistic assessment of where we're at, but they're just antagonistic nay sayers.

My low level computer skills don't allow me to multi quote, but I'll try to respond as best I can. 1. I always try to be balanced. Even if I'm theatrical the point I'm making is usually balanced. Unless of course I'm insulting someone. 2. The ways to look at strengths and weaknesses in a coach tend to be the obvious ones. Is there improvement from year to year ? Is the side well drilled and structured ? Are players improving ? Is the improvement in line with maturation levels or quantum ? You can be the judge of these however I'd suggest that some glaring issues that have been diabolical for some time still are. How are our first quarters when the players should be really switched on ? Are we winning more quarters of footy year to year ? Are we getting more inside 50's, which has been a massive problem for 3 years ? How are our kick ins from defence ? There are standard kpi's that coaches use. The better teams are really pressing well on their opposition, which means that it is extremely difficult to get the ball out of their forward 50. Are we implementing this strategy as well as countering it ? Why does the President feel the need to be so hands on with the FD if he had faith that the FD was performing ? In reality we don't know what's going on within the FD, but gameday reveals much. You be the judge. 3. The players and culture ? The senior players set the culture of the group as well as the FD. I recognise that our senior players are comprised of B and C graders. They simply aren't that good. Our talent rests with our youth and until they are in a position to stamp their authority on the club we'll have mixed performances. Plenty of the senior group are also relatively young. But I don't think that the players escape the blowtorch. Certainly not on Demonland. I don't expect Dean to perform miracles, but I do expect the side to be well structured, organised and have the required levels of intensity. Look at the change to Essendon's gameplan and field organisation over summer. Into Bailey's fourth year it's evident that the same issues are yet to be resolved. Or even looking likely to. I accept however that it's highly unlikely that it's just Bailey's fault from within the coaching ranks. You mention that it's the senior coach that's always the first one to cop it in the neck. Well, that goes with the territory and they know it. I'm sure they're happy to bask in the glory when things are going really well, so it's a two-way street. That said, when the senior coach hangs onto his job by his thumb nails at year's end you should see the cleanout of assistants. Assistant coaches have less JS than senior coaches.

One of your better posts. The apologists will enjoy the slant in the HS as it suits their head in the sands approach, but despite the club now clumsily trying to manage the fallout the die has well and truly been cast. In our FD we have Bailey, Connolly, Viney, Williams, O'Donnell, Royal, Wellman, Harrington, West, and a footy CEO in Schwab who's been around forever, but despite all these experienced 'footy heads', we have a President that now sees the need to become a hands on footy person that is going to sit in the box and is in the process of selecting a subcommittee to review the senior coach. This happens amidst non competitive performances and the backdrop of football experts - and anyone who actually watches the game with their eyes open - stating that we don't forward press against the opposition, we can't handle frontal pressure against us, and instead rely on winning the footy off half back and using 'run and spread' to mount forward thrusts. And of course this high risk / high reward strategy is suspect under pressure due to the high numbers of players from the opposition (18 man zones) that need to be penetrated. Our players run forward of the play expecting that their teammates will win a contested ball, but if they don't, or there's a turnover, they're completely exposed on the rebound. This is one of the reasons that we never have as many numbers as the opposition around the footy - they've peeled off, or we've lost any semblance of structure. Unfortunately a new and more defensive gameplan can't be successfully implemented overnight. Three quarters of the competition could see the way footy was heading, but in the words of Todd Viney, "we didn't concentrate that much on gameplan, or strategy, but more individual player development". Great call Dean. I mean, you're only in your second year as coach, aren't you ? But the apologists get all upset - they say "The torch bearers are on the warpath", or "I'm sick of supporters being unfair to Dean", "we have the youngest list outside the Gold Coast", and of course all of these platitudes are said in a whiny voice similar to that of well known talk back caller 'Chris from Camberwell'. They say they'd like to deal in facts. The fact is our coach, who definitely has good coaching qualities, isn't the best person to manage this football side through to a premiership. Gameplan and structure has increased in importance, yet we've given it a backseat. Forward 50 pressure has never been more important, yet we can't get the ball in our forward 50 and when we do we lay the least tackles in the comp despite it being of such critical importance. Bailey will see the year out and rightly so, but he won't have the time to catch up to most of the competition with regards to our gameplan. You can't change it overnight. And despite his best intentions, despite the players "loving Dean" and despite his terrific contribution to the club he won't deserve a contract extension. Dean has tried his all and he's been good for Melbourne, but he just doesn't quite cut the mustard. He came here as a "teaching coach", which I fear is partly his downfall. Teaching is an important part of coaching young players, but it's been at the expense of structure and gameplan. Not many teachers have a hard edge. How can a teacher ask his pupil to run through a brick wall for them ? The club needs teachers, but not as the head coach.