Demon Dynasty
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Posts posted by Demon Dynasty
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Edited by Rusty Nails
3 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:Yeah but you need some kind of balance, even if it's reading the play to intercept mark, or be capable of crumbing off the pack. Winning your own ball isn't always about getting the in and under hard ball.
Someone like Weightman doesn't show all that much ability to win it under the pack either, but his leap means he can take a high mark and he can crumb and goal. That's demonstrating ability to win the ball in other ways.
Stephens clearly has alot of qualities we need, and like I said I haven't seen enough of him to say he can't win the ball. He may well turn out to be a much better footballer that Weightman. But this is what makes drafting so hard.
I agree in terms of aerial that isn't on show. Balance at ground level ...a number of demos in the highlight vid that prove he has that in spades already and will only get better.
Not comparing him 'against' Weightman AW. Two very diff beasts imv.
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Edited by Rusty Nails
24 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:Because you draft a player who will hopefully play for the next 15 years, not someone who will step in and peak from year one (palmer, Rich, Lewis Taylor). Losing most/all of your first year is not the end of the world. Cripps managed just 3 games due to injury, Max King was drafted with pick 4 following a knee reco and Hogan and Petracca played no games due to back and knee injuries. Draft for the long term.
There's also nothing to suggest that he won't be back to his best when recovered. If it were a broken leg, I'd have big reservations, but there are plenty of examples to draw on where players have returned from knee injuries to have exceptional careers. If he's there at pick 8, I say we grab him with both hands.
If we didn't have the NSC history 39 (ie; we were discussing this as a Hawthorn, Collingwood or Geelong etc) i would be in total agreement in terms of a draft prospect!
I still disagree in terms of a 'what we need' perspective however.
And certainly not expecting him to peak from year one as a rookie 39. I agree on that but at the same time, the longer his return is delayed, the longer it will take to get him up to speed at AFL level and for us to see any benefit (and whether he will cut the mustard or not).
Other clubs in better positions with more recent success (and larger/more wealthy) can tend to carry and cover off these type of players better if things go sour (see the Hawks...Patton & Jeager. Geelong with...Blease, Clarke. The Pies with Dunn etc).
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17 minutes ago, GoingGoingGawn said:
Stephens reminds me of Sam Blease, That makes me nervous lol
GG, as you probably know he was effectively another KK and had to finish his career 35 games or so in so we will never truly know whether we saw him at his best or not. Those head knocks started quite early in his career also. He was also a right footer!
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Edited by Rusty Nails
1 hour ago, BW511 said:Will be interesting to see how we go on draft day, I'm concerned that we are expecting kids to impact immediately, reality is they will be 2-3 years off having much meaningful impact.
Re: Weightman - I'm very skeptical of a small, lightly framed 18yo making any impact next year.
Could very well be a great pickup down the track, but Goodwin & Mahoney need results now
I don't know anything about the various prospects, but we could use an upgrade on every line.
Having not seen anything on Weightman i'm also very sceptical BW but....then there's all the recent scout reports which are pretty glowing...
ESPN July wrap - Chris Doerre
Cody Weightman
Kicking four goals in Vic Country's second and third matches, Weightman has made the shift up draft boards from one of the small forwards who might get drafted to one of this year's most exciting small forwards. The 177cm goal sneak has a similar set of strengths to Richmond's Shai Bolton as one of the most exciting performers during the championships.
Weightman possesses a complete bag of tricks as a clean and energetic ground ball-winner who is capable overhead and will fly for marks. He displays run, dare, evasion, finishing around goal and there is a perpetual sense with Weightman whenever the ball is in his area inside 50m, he will make something out of nothing. Weightman applies heavy forward pressure and is a capable tackler.
The queries are his consistency and whether he can be effective up the ground. If Weightman continues to hit the scoreboard consistently over the second half of the season and applies heavy forward pressure, he would be worth draft consideration inside the second round in this year's draft.
End.
A few excerpts from Draft Central FWIW...
DRAFT ANALYSIS: “An electric small forward who kicks goals in bags and can take high marks, Weightman’s outstanding National Championships propelled him up draft boards into first round contention.”
ARGUABLY the leading pure small forward in this year’s crop, Dandenong excitement machine Cody Weightman enjoyed a stellar national carnival which helped him catch the eye of fans and recruiters alike.
STRENGTHS:
X-factor
Goal sense
Vertical leap
Footy IQ
AggressionIMPROVEMENTS:
Consistency
VersatilityThe thing that best defines a player like Weightman is X-factor. Small forwards typically have it in spades and the Dandenong product is no different, providing a spark inside 50 to whichever side he lined up for this year. His most eye-catching passages come through his break-neck attack on the ball both in the air and at ground level, with Weightman using his outstanding vertical leap (83 running and 69 standing at the National Draft Combine) to take high marks and his smarts to navigate opponents when the ball hits the deck. From there, Weightman has great spatial awareness and while he is only relatively quick and agile, can find enough space to have a clean shot on goal. Endurance is also a deceptively good part of his game, with his pre-season yo-yo test score of 21.4 elite for his position (despite decreasing at the National Combine) and boding well for repeat efforts inside 50. Weightman’s presence then becomes two-fold, with his aggressive attack on the ball translating to defensive pressure – despite not having massive tackle numbers.
Full report here..
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Edited by Rusty Nails
1 hour ago, ArtificialWisdom said:Some nice highlights. But playing devils advocate here: I've always heard discussions about a correlation between top end talented juniors who win their own footy going on to be successful at AFL level. I don't know enough about Stephens and this may just be a limited sample, but the centre clearance at 1:20 is the only time in that video that he won the ball himself, and he fumbled, the rest came from a team mate winning it. I'd like to see more of him winning the footy himself.
Nooooo.....he is a classy outside mid with pace and a lovely left foot AW. You want to see him get banged up getting his own ball and probably failing badly at it most of the time anyway?
That's why we have Clarry, Viney, Harmes, Tracc and a bit of chunk going through there.
I agree you still need to be capable of getting your own loose ball out in space and go hard there but certainly not banging in and under.
The outside connect with evasive speed enabling player to find space, ease up a little and hit targets quite a bit coming inisde 50, is exactly what we've been lacking! Especially on the bigger grounds like our home the G.
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Edited by Rusty Nails
1 hour ago, Watson11 said:I hope we draft Dylan Stephens. Impressive video mostly at senior level. The crows also need outside run and class so will surely pick him up at pick 4.
That is a strong possibility Watson which is why, if we are keen on a beautifuly balanced mid with a great turn of speed and finishes well off the left (can use his right quite well also...rare nowadays, allows him to roll either side meaning he has more options and harder to counter), we should get him with pick 3. He is, by a country mile imho, the stand out outside classy mid, with a significant turn of pace, in this draft and EXACTLY what we are lacking in terms of his all round balance / ability combined with a significant burst of speed.
He is also very good defensively without ball in hand and works super hard on shutting opponents down if you believe scout reports. Something the highlight reels don't show all that often so that would appear to be another asset.
Spots he might put pressure on, replace and / or cover if out injured?
Hannan, Langdon, JKH, Stretch (still on the list!?), Salem, Baker and ANB.
Given a few pre-seasons i think he will be as good as or possibly better than Langdon, all going well on the luck/injury front and will certainly be an upgrade on the likes of those listed above (with the exception of Langdon).
We talk about our poor connection and lack of class coming inside 50!? Look no further!
This from draft watcher Chris Doerre of ESPN as recently as 4 Sept....
..."What was most impressive from Stephens in Norwood's win was the defensive component to his game. The work he did without the ball to chase, pressure, tackle and smother was noteworthy.
With a game comparable to Lachie Hunter, Stephens is a midfielder with a similarly versatile, high production game and a neat left foot. If Stephens develops his strength without losing any of his run and becomes more comfortable using his non-preferred right foot, he looks like a low-risk prospect who can be plugged in on a wing from his first season."...
excerpt courtesy of ESPN.
Full report here....
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Edited by Rusty Nails
31 minutes ago, loges said:I suppose my question would be, why weren't we having those same discussions?
What's to say we didn't Loges?
This is where, post the trade, i would like to see our media side get on the front foot a little more. Connect a little more openly with supporters and answer a few of the significant questions such as where were we at with Jenkins? Was he ever on our radar etc? View on Martin going forward?
Not expecting full disclosure and giving up of trade secrets but just a little more 'give' to the members/supporters with a bit of an insight into what the thinking was on some players that looked like a potential 'fit' but we didn't go after or land for whatever reason.
The trade wrap interview with Mahoney made for a very 'glowing' assessment overall but gave us no real (new) insight into the FD's thinking/workings. Just another fluff piece really.
You listen to Wells on SEN this morning he was giving clear insight into their reasoning for particular trade decisions/outcomes (Stevens, Kelley & Jenkins) including details such as that i mentioned on Jenkins meeting up with Scott on holidays and his thoughts on not trading Kelley out last season, the current non-AFL ready fitness state of Stevens including his mindset etc.
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37 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:
If we draft him and he gets through the pre-season unscathed, then I'd say Cody Weightman would be a fair chance at landing a spot in our side for Round 1.
I hope we aren't thinking IF Wise.
Lockhart is a likely prospect and hopefully takes another step up this season. Him and Chandler (super green and a BIG IF) seem like the two smalls off our list that 'might' make it.
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1 hour ago, Demon3 said:
His price of $700k will rule us out, its apipe dream, plus he is not a $700k per year player. He has lovely skills but i honestly cannot remember seeing him rip a game a part, in fact i cant even really remember watching him play and thinking this guy is a gun.
Bailey Fritsch is everything and can be more Jack Martin is and we already have him.
40 minutes ago, binman said:Totally agree. Getting him without giving up a draft pick would be massive.
My only hesitation is his salary ask. If rumours are true he seemingly was guaranteed a big salary at the blues, upwards of 6-700k a year. Normally I wouldn't care but I reckon that is overs and leaving aside cap issues might cause some rumblings
In the end this is probably the sticking point. I'm not big on every Buckenara assessment but this was his thoughts prior to the trade finishing y'day...
..."Gold Coast want a first-round pick for Martin but he’s just not worth that based on exposed form. Yes he’s a talented player but he doesn’t work hard enough and has not translated that talent into consistent form at AFL level. To me, he’s worth Carlton’s pick 43. If the Suns get something better than that then they’ve actually done very well."
$500k (ish) max feels about right.
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10 hours ago, Dante said:
Flanders played against the two top picks and got 27 possessions and 4 goals. I had a look at his highlight package and he looks the goods to me.
Young as our second pick, I’d be happy with that.
Flanders (whose highlights i confused with Young in another thread...apologies) appears to be a ball bombing mid if the highlights are anything to go by. We want another?
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Edited by Rusty Nails
Why would you draft a player who will miss the entire first season and then take another to get back to anywhere near where he was prior to the injury? He's also an insideish mid, albeit a versatile one given his height. We want another? If we did why would you not look at Young or Flanders as immediate starters?
Regardless, i thought we were looking for outside run and finish plus small forwards?
No way. If we can't land Martin then it's Stephens and Weightman FTW imv.
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A ready made experienced goal kicking HF who can play both small (crumbing options & around the goal smarts) and somewhat tall with solid overhead skills? And basically play an outside role anywhere between the arcs at a pinch?
If there's any chance of snagging him we would be mad not to be getting in to this big time and giving it a serious crack.
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8 hours ago, Mel Bourne said:
True that, but if you thought your mate was - though great to hang out with - not much chop on the field, wouldn’t you be content just to catch up with him at BBQs?
He obviously feels he has something to offer on field Mel. He also might have had the inside running of what went down at the Crows with camp etc and the effect it was having on players. Bit of a reference also to calm any concerns of the hierarchy.
Jenkins caught up with Scott when they were both holidaying in the U.S. so the discussions were well and truly under way a fair way before draft time.
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2019 AFL National Draft Thread
in Melbourne Demons
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Edited by Rusty Nails
Correct and more reasonable pick numbers but unfortunately the Crows are sitting there with No.4