binman

This reminds of this scene from Seinfield.

[media=]

Very good. A three pointer?

Brent did seem a little depressed, but I think he's honest. I suspect playing football (especially at Melb) means much more to him than we realise. While on one hand his conscious mind ordered himself to move on & be positive after winning the B&F then getting dropped from the leadership group, criticised etc., on the other hand his subconscious couldn't help but feel let down & depressed (he's human, I don't blame him). He may have turned the corner now. I think he's a good guy who's worked hard for us.

Good call i reckon. I was thinking something similar. It was instructive Neeld chose him to sit beside him at the presser following our first win (as opposed to Trenners who has a pretty tough time of it and could have done with a positive). Then Beamer was chosen to do a media call the following day (during which he reiterated that he played a new role and explaining what it was, which sort of discounts my theory Neeld shut him down in the presser).

I may be going out on a limb here but i wonder if this was a bit of a watershed week for Beamer. I loved his presser and his interview, he was emotionally honest in a way that is incredibly rare in footy these days. He acknowledged he had found it hard to be out of the leadership group and to adapt to a new game plan.

He also acknowledged his relationship with Neeld had been tough, but was improving and was now meeting with him regularly.

I wonder if all this was evidence of Beamer turning things around but perhaps more importantly also evidence of Neeld adjusting his approach to managing his players, particularly his senior players. The performance of Beamer, Sylvia and Rivers might be as a result of this.

I also wonder if Neeld has looked at his relationship with the entire list and recalibrated it a touch and perhaps has had a bit of heart to heart with them. There is definitely a much more united vibe coming from the club and much more "we" in Neeldy's talk.

Neeld has said publicly he is open to learning and will take on constructive criticism. Perhaps this is evidence of that as is his preparedness to change tack with Watts in terms of playing him up back and even Garlo up forward and Beamer pushing up.

Again it might be a long bow but this all gives me great confidence in Neeld and where we are currently at as a club. I listened to the audio of McLardy on 3AW and he was terrific, loved his passion and i got a real sense of a united club. Comments from Rivers and Watts reinforce this as does the club's open sessions with supporters. And the passion and concern for the coach from the players after the win was even more evidence.

The club has had all sorts thrown at it and managed it really well i reckon. Cameron Schwab's role in this has been noted by McClardy and Craig. Perhaps there has the been the sort of healing happening that i believe is so necessary for the club to move forward. And if so there is no end of irony in the fact that it has been happening at a time when the club has been pounded by the media who, despite the 24 hour scrutiny and so called analysis may well have been completely oblivious to it - despite the club and players saying how well they have been training and that they are right behind the new direction.

I hate to see what is happening to North but it just reinforces what i have said several times, what happens on field is merely a manifestation of what occurs off field. Only a truly united club (at all levels, from boot studder to CEO) can consistently "come to play" week in week out.

I'd be interested in Hellsgate's perspective on this (ie the current vibe at the club)

Ray Biffin spells his name these days Biffen ?

He could if he was trying to be really post modern

Still nothing wrong with kick long to a contest or a two on one .The game is still about kicking a pigskin through the goal the most times.Why F!ck around going backwards and sideways when everyone floods back? Dont believe everything you read about stats and plans and all that.

The essence of it is hard contested football .

Are you the real Ray Biffen? (that would be lovely post internet age irony). If so please post a recent photo

Barry P doesn't get a lot of love but he got this one 100% right

Check this out:

http://www.afl.com.a...79/default.aspx

There will still be demonland posters ready to bag Watts, despite the sort of stats highlighted in the article. I can just see it:

• Yes but where's he ranked in tackles
  
• You can't put a measure on desire
  
• Of course you'd pick up lots of stats floating free in the back half
  
• Wait till they tag him
  
• He has funny hair and still has peach fuzz
  
• Big deal, i mean he's a number one draft pick, these sort of numbers are ware the minimum you'd expect
  
• This is so frustrating, it shows he can do it, then why hasn't he before - you can't just turn it on when you feel like it
  
• We drafted him as KPF not a floating half backer who doesn't like to get his hands dirty
  
• Demons fans get excited by a handful of kicks and a couple of easy intercepts
  
• He's just an average player, if there was a draft today he'd go low 30's
  

He's headed for a northern suburbs club where he can enjoy the local pasta according to my mail.

Big offer, can't refuse that blows all offers out of the water.

Don't know how they do it but they always manage to fit players in their salary cap.

Makes sense. They need him, perhaps more than us. But to be honest i know he's good but really only had the 2-3 top shelf seasons and i wouldn't want him at the dees for a five year contract on the sort of coin that's been bandied about - to big a risk. We need gun mids before another big forward (besides we've got garlo now)

I still reckon he can become like Swan.

JM i remember a time on Demonland where quite a few people bagged Jones and rated him no more than an honest trier who would not become A grade. I'm with you on this one. If he continues his rate of improvement he could become as damaging as Swan, or at least close and certainly potential A grader. Certainly has the endurance and work ethic to be to be a top shelf mid.

The thing that i like most about Jones is how he has improved on his weakness, the most obvious one being his kicking which has improved out of sight (he has added distance and accuracy and now also kicks goals).

However i reckon the biggest and most importantt improvement has been with his decision making. His biggest weakness, IMO used to be that he often turned the ball over through poor choices (and sometimes poor kicking obviously). He rarely does that now and is much more creative with his ball use. One good example from Sats game was the kick to Garland in the square in the last quarter. Could have easily blazed away, didn't had to cut back in and put it perfectly to Garlo's advantage. Great stuff.

Now if he could only at least try and pretend to make an attempt to get the ball out when he gets buried at the bottom of the pack, umpires wouldn't have the excuse to ping him for a free kick!

They're up to that perennial favourite now ... the umpires!

From Bomber blitz: "I thought the umpires were terrific. I can't recall any really bad calls"

Only joking, my words. They were good though

First post guys, not sure if it has been posted already, but heres an article by Mick Malthouse that is quite insightful and worth a look.

Cheers

http://au.news.yahoo...nt-distasteful/

Good first post MM. Really fascinating article, especially this bit:

"We designed the no space, no pace concept and challenged our players to absorb it. They took it on board and we lived by that code for the years that Mark was the midfield coach. It showed me that tactically he was very good and very sound. He understands why things are done in football and why players are rotated through certain roles."

No doubt Neeld is trying to implement this "code" at the dees. For our older midfield players such as Moloney this approach would take time to get your head around given they had set up much more offensively under Bailey. Might explain why we have struggled with clearances. We were noticeably better Sat night with this and now that i think about we were pretty good at stopping players like Stanton and Watson getting the easy, clean take always that can hurt so much

We had a lot more Jamar to Maloney last year, but perhaps that's in least part due how they set up because we also had heaps of times where the opposition would take the ball from the stoppage time after time with the same ease that Malthouse notes he wanted to ensure the maggies avoided (eg kerr in a straifght line and a pass to Embley).

I also liked Malthouse's point about the need to be patient. Sage words indeed. When was this article written, i couldn't find a date?

Someone moved from CHF to HBF in an awful team is going to have their stats skyrocket.

Only if they are good. And besides how many players consistently have a disposal efficiency of around 85% (in the league, little lone Melbourne). So if his stats sky rocket and 85% of them hit their target then that's fantastic, particularly seeing we struggle so much with turnovers

they are obviously both still developing and will probably both end up being very good 200+ game players for their clubs.

what i think is interesting and very promising is how they have improved year to year.

watts was drafted younger and was alot less physically imposing but each year his output has increased and statistically this year is his best.

2009 av 9 disp

2010 av 12.6 disp

2011 av 16.1 disp

2012 av 19 disp

where hurley obviously came on the scene and had several early break out games in 2010, but hasnt shown continual improvement.

2009 av 14.4 disp

2010 av 16.2 disp

2011 av 14.4 disp

2012 av 13 disp

considering watts has still got a lot more physical development left in him i think there is an argument to be made that he has alot more upside left in him.

also interesting to note that watts on average has twice as many tackles a game

Excellent post and i agree. Watts still has a huge amount of improvement left, in large part due to the fact he is likely, in the next 2-3 years, put on aprox 5-8 kgs and perhaps even get a bit taller. He'll fill out in the chest and his legs will get stronger making him super difficult to move off the ball. The other area he will improve is in the all round footy coaching (eg fitness, line coaches, tactics, sports science etc) he is now receiving that he hasn't previously enjoyed, or at least to the same extent (if for no other reason than the huge increase in FD spending).

Hurley on the other may put on a little bit of weight and height still but i expect not nearly as much as Watts (logical seeing he is older). I don't think he would want to put on much more weight anyway as he is not super quick and it may slow him down.

I think Hurley is a terrific player and would love form him to be a demon. But i'd take Watts before him all day every day. As noted above he has more scope for improvement, is a better runner and athlete and can play in more positions (which will end up being a real positive for Watts, this business about him having to play as a KPF because that't what we picked him for is a nonsense as Neeld seems to have conceded).

Sure Hurley is more ferocious at the ball and that is terrific, perhaps even his best asset. But whilst Watts is unlikely to play with the same intensity he will improve in this area (has already IMO and i thought even his harshets critics would have to acknowledge he was great in this regard on Sat night)). Watts makes up for the gap with far superior skills and an incredibly quick brain. Some bits of play that reinforced that for me on Sat were:

• Not getting sucked into packs and trusting the one Melbourne player to win the ball (obviously listening to his coaches about the need to have outside players)
  
• The over the head handball, in tight to Sellar i think, who broke from our back line. In fact there wer numerous examples of his super quick hands
  
• A great mark on the wing at an important point in the game, followed up with a pin point pass off the left foot (he could have used his right foot as it was a stoppage but would have had to turn his body as he was kicking to a player on his left hand side, he had no hesitation whatsoever to use his left foot)
  
• The 12 intercepts he was credited with, fantastic. The commentators (mainly that [censored] Darcy but also Richo) were saying how great fletcher is in that role of back half sweeper and whilst admittedly they played Sylvia on him after quarter time to curb him he ended up with only 7 intercepts. It is worth noting that Watts wasn't playing as a free man either
  

he seemed to spend a bit more time forward. i think he had nearly 10 inside 50s and kicked that great running goal so perhaps that was what the coach was after

Thanks. That makes sense. Neeld very keen for him not to discuss, obviously wants to keep as much info from Buckley as possible (probably shouldn't have picked Beamer to go on with him then as he's not the sharpest tool in the shed).

Neelds an intense dude isn't he.

In terms of strategy next week it should be interesting as Neeld knows their strengths etc and having worked with Buckley for some time would be across his philosophies

I think neeld brought it up as Moloney started to talk about playing a different role, it somewhat seemed like neeld was trying to shut him up

Yes i agree, just watched it and i got the sense Neeld didn't want Moloney to say any more about his different role. Which was what btw? Did he play a tagging or run with role, perhaps on Stanton?

What i find funny is 'commentators' making these sort of silly statements when there is not a hope in hell the club would/could do it. I mean there is no way the club or the players would relinquish the captaincy.

There are always examples of this sort of palaver. The one that got my goat recently was David King saying the club should come out and admit it made a mistake in appointing Neeld. I mean as if they would do that, even in they did actually think they had made an error. Never going to happen so why (especially if you are a so called expert) bother suggesting it. Crazy stuff.

I know what you mean - but I doubt you meant that you only want them to perform up until half time. I'd like to see heart and soul for the full 2 hours (or 7,200 seconds)

The problem is that she/he is Monoccullar. If the name was Binocular he'd have had all 7, 200 seconds

Amazing really to see a fit Petterd running around for Casey. I recall the talk on demonland about Gold Coast being him to him and the angst on this board about that. Can't get a game in the team stone motherless last is not a good look and one wonders where his AFL career is at.

I have never suggested that anyone should be sacked now rpfc.

But if at the end of 2012 we are 0 -22 or similar

What would your next move be?

IMO If we are 0 -22 or similar with an average losing margin of 10 goals that is a drastic situation it would probably be our worst yearly performance ever.

There is not another club in the competition that would not be calling for blood in that scenario.

IMO one of the reasons we have spent 48 years between drinks is because MFC members are too accepting.

When is it time to rock the boat?

I'm for sticking the course, rome wasn't built in a day etc etc. But if we are 0-222 at seasons end then its most def time to start rocking the boat. Conversely what if we end up with 5-6 wins will critics of Neeld and the rest of the coaching staff ease up a bit?

Could it be that my 'predictive' text is being converted to 'prescriptive' text by my predictive text?

I went to the doctor for my speech impediment and he gave me a predictive script to get filled at the chemist

It is interesting how people view a football club. Stone broke but doing well on the field, to many that is great. Getting strong financially, securing the future of the club, but struggling on the field, many see that as a total failure.

I see it as follows, we have gone from a basket case off the field to a strong club, with assets, a new state of the art training base, a satellite training ground in a growing community, debt free, revamped football and coaching department and stable board.

So, so true Redleg. Thank you for a bringing a bit of sense to the dialogue.

I have said it before but Melbourne has largely been a complete basket case off the field for much of the last 45 years and this is the key problem at the club. Effective governance underpins any successful organisation. Our woeful on field performance for much of that time is merely the manifestation of the off field chaos, division and petty politics that has longed defined our board and footy admin teams (hopefully no longer though).

Until we get the off field stuff right forget the on field stuff. The focus is often on the CEO but again governance is the key and the buck stops with the board. Things seem to me be much better in that regard and off field things are on the improve in terms of football department spend, facilities etc etc. Root and branch re build is the only way if we want to turn around a ship that ran aground decades ago

Just thought of another excuse, prescriptive text?????

Pre empting and predicating a mid season draft prescriptive text ???????

IMO Nasher you have neglected one ellement.

Skill, we do not have enough.

It does not matter how fit we become we just do not have enough quality players.

No amount of effort will cover that problem

I agree with this to an extent, it has been an issue that has long plagued us. However there is no doubt fatigue impacts on skill and decision making abilities (at least it does for me!). If we have an issue with skill, which i agree we do, fatigue will make it even more an issue, particularly if the skill problems are related to poor technique and perhaps even more so if the skill problems are related to decision making.

Neeld's game is a much harder more contested style - this is more physically taxing than simply running

The players need bodies that can withstand physical battering - right now they do not have that

Despite people think that they're elite sportsmen and should be able to stand up to this, this is simply not the case

It is clear the players are physically tired during the game, this will change in coming years

Yes this is true. Interesting article a couple of weeks ago about the approach by the Bombers new fitness dude (the machine, the animal, the warrior - or some such nonsense) who said this idea underpinned his approach and consequently they have really focused on building body mass and strength to ensure player can better with stand (and not fatigue as much) the battering that modern footy demands. Also interesting that Bomber Thompson pushed for this guy (and his approach) as this strength has been as important to Geelongs sustained success as their corridor focused, attacking game plan and highly skilled players capable of pulling it off.

In terms of the last couple of lines i also agree. I think the point is that Melbourne at present are not elite athletes and probably won't be until at least start of next season and yes it is dead obvious they are absolutely exhausted, hence that sense in the second half of quarters and games you always have the feeling they are about to be run over.

Yes to a degree. But how come we were winning Our fair share with Dean Bailey and his reputed leisurely fitness regime? We are 0/9 BTW and not had a rats chance of winning anyone of them. I suggest you look more deeply to where our real problems lie.

Bollocks. We didn't win our "fair share" with Bailey. 8.5 was the high water mark was it not. The players knew his game plan and were committed to it - and why not it suited front runners and lazy players (it relied on speed of ball movement not players having to run hard to cover space). It was an attacking free wheeling style that was bound to come off at some point, partic against sides who were not on their game or who tried to play attacking footy aginst us. But we simply could not get any where near a side who played hard contested footy, flooded or ran both ways, still can't because we simply are not fit enough. Full stop.

You can't seriously suggest we could have beaten Carlton purely on mental strength. Apparently our GPS data is showing we are running much further in games this year and this obviously takes it toll. We continued to put in but just ran out of legs. Blind Freddy could have seen it

GWS. Our grand final?