binman

26 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Actually, luck doesn't work like that. We could just as easily have more bad luck next year as each year's luck is independent.

Sorry.

Against that, having a full off-season with no finals so players can have a proper break and recharge will definitely help our "luck".

Well, you clearly don't believe in the footy gods.

Or Lady luck. 

I've had a word with both and they agree we're due some luck.

1 hour ago, Gator said:

I'm genuinely not qualified to answer, but will keep looking at their videos.

None look Gulden good, but they all seem pretty solid.

On limited viewing I'd have Smillie and Langford as better kicks than Lalor, but I still prefer Lalor's all round game.  And it's not as though it's a major weakness.

But others may have a different take.

There's few players who are Gulden good.

If not elite, the key is any player we draft in has to be at least reliable by foot.

And trade in for that matter.

18 minutes ago, Hellfire Dub said:

Nothing wrong with being optimistic.  I love your optimism despite everything and I really hope you're right.  I'd really love you too be right, but I fear we might be headed for another 2019 style rough year.

Would you be confident enough to say if you're right, I'll pay for your grand final ticket and if it doesn't happen then you'd pay my Redlegs membership 2026?  

Define me being right.

13 hours ago, Hellfire Dub said:

Did you say similar optimistic things after 22 and 23?  

As a betting man, what odds would you give on this outcome eventuating?  

I did indeed.

Is there something wrong with being optimistic?

As a betting man, I'd give us better than even money of the things I noted occurring (well, not the flag, neom smith double - the rest)

And why not?

The club is not in crisis, whatever the media would like people to believe. 

Mutiple key players have resigned, including our four best young guns (jvr, winsdsor, mcvee and kolt) our best player is suiting up next year and we don't have players like melk with long term injuries.

West Coast Eagles- the wealthiest club in the AFL with a 20k wait list to be a member - is in crisis.

They just sacked their coach and can't find another one. Have been down the bottom for 6 years and a flag looks minimum 5 years away.

It will come down to luck as much as anything.

Everything that could go wrong did go wrong this year.

We're due some good luck and if it comes in the next 12 months we'll be back playing finals this time next year.

5 hours ago, deelusions from afar said:

I'm relieved that Petracca has released a statement - if nothing else than it gets the club out of the bad media spotlight for a bit.
However, I did find the statement both interesting and disappointing by what it didn't say.  It has been very carefully crafted.  For example:

• He says he loves his footy... but nowhere does he express his love for the club - where he has won a premierships and north smith with many of his closest mates.  Usually this type of statement would have something like "I love my footy, I love this club - the players, the staff, the fans..."
• On his future he "remains committed to the red and blue" but it doesn't say for life or for his contract etc
• He also says "I voiced my concerns as a leader, wanting better for our club, playing group, and fans."  Maybe this is accurate - maybe he was doing the hard thing and trying to generate the change needed.  But from the snippets in the media, this seems more revisionist history being written and (until there's reason to think otherwise) the reference to wanting better for the fans seems disingenuous.  

i guess we'll have to wait to hear what he actually says when he's interviewed about it all.

All good points.

But personally I could care less what he says in a media statement- now or in the future.

I didn't, and don't, expect him to come out and pledge undying loyalty to the dees or talk about how much he loves the club and fans.

And I'm not particularly annoyed with him either - merde happens.

Im just glad hes staying.

Rehab, train hard over the preseason and play great footy.

That will do me just fine.

52 minutes ago, Gator said:

I agree with the mids philosophy for this draft.

My days of going to champs etc. to scout potential draftees is long gone, so I'm left with youtube videos.

Out of Langford, Smillie and Lalor I like Lalor based on admittedly scant viewing.  I just like the way he moves, makes decisions and his speed looks good.  A nice size at 187cm also.

Langford also looks nice, but his and Smillie's speed is a concern, because we're already not blessed with midfield speed.

So I keep coming back to Lalor.  Others may prefer Murphy and the elusive skinnier types, who'll bulk up in time.  I haven't seen enough of those.

We need a star mid with a top 5 pick.  I haven't seen enough of Lalor to kinow whether he has that potential.

Which of those is the best kick Gator?

1 hour ago, Adam The God said:

We do need to do more to our list than just add pick 5 though.

Sure, though pick 5 is a good start.

Am I right to say we haven't traded our second round pick?

If not we'll have a mid twenty draft pick which might add a future best 22 player if we get it right.

After that tge draft is a lottery.

So we'll need to trade in at least two best 22 players.

That's a tall order, but with nibbla's, Gus BBB and smiths salary off the books, we'll have some room in our salary cap to be a meaningful player in trade season.

1 minute ago, Demonised said:

So we're now at the 'reconciliation' stage of the 'reconciliation-redemption' narrative arc.

I'm looking forward to the next stage.

The story writes itself:

Dees have a cracking preseason.

The Max, Jack, tracc and clarry band gets back together.

The young Turks (JVR, mcvee, Windsor, Kolt, disco and pick 5) make their own music.

The dees win the flag.

Tracc wins the Norm Smith.

Redemption reigns.

Traccs 'reach' goes nuclear.

44 minutes ago, Loose Men Everywhere said:

It has been rare for reigning premier not to make finals, interestingly it has happened with 3 of last 4 premiers. Exception is us!

I think it is a reflection of just how tough footy is anaerobicly now and how critical a good preseason is.

Non finalists have essentially an extra six weeks of recovery for players and time to get surgeries done, which sets up things for a good preseason.

No coincidence that we missed finals in the year before winning the flag.

And no surprise to see the cats top 4 the year after failing to make finals after winning a flag in 2022.

10 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

I don't agree with those who are saying "if Collingwood/Carlton have the capital next year, watch out".

For one, if we address the issues that have come to the fore, we may be able to reduce or eliminate what's been pushing Trac towards the door. Things will also feel and look better if we get back to winning again next year.

But more importantly, this time next year he'll still have a four year contract on a million a season, and he'll be 29 turning 30. One fewer year on the contract doesn't suddenly make it easier for another club to take him, or reduce our bargaining power.

 

More the point, as you say this time next year he will be just about to turn 30.

Seriously, what contender, even in the unlikely event they have space in their cap to pay a new player 1.2 million a year, would use that space to trade in a bloke at the back end of his career?

It would completely unbalance their salary cap.

Have people forgotten that the pies only recently had to off load an AA ruck and gun mid, not to mention pay part of their salary, because their contracts were too high.

And given tracc would still be contracted, what contender would give up the sort of draft picks and/or young guns they would need to offer up to satisfy the dees to land tracc.

The pies and blues would only consider spending that sort of capital on a Harley Reid, JHF or Darcy.

I mean, how would dees fans feel about us giving up our pick 5 and a couple of young players like Turner and Mcvee to bring in say Lachie Neale or the bont on a million bucks a year?

Talk in the media comparing the tracc scenario to Judd's is just ridiculous. 

Yes Judd, like tracc, was a superstar. But judd was 23 when he left the Eagles after 5 seasons and ended up playing 7 for the blues.

And another difference, a critical one, was the deal was all bit done when the rumours commenced. It doesn't sound like there were any serious conversations between teacc and say the pies.

A better comparison would be ablett going back to the cats.

Ablett was 33, but still playing good football and would have been on much better coin at the suns if he stayed than what the cats were prepared to pay him.

2 hours ago, Oxdee said:

You do realise there’s something to this story. Morris had every right to report it 

See, this is where I have a problem.

Not with Morris' per se - he is  paid to gin up angst and clicks.

But is there really a huge story here?

I mean it could all be boiled down to:

'Star player unhappy with how injury managed and concerned premiership wondow is shut wants to get to a more successful Victorian club.'

A bog standard story written a million times.

All the rest of it, for example the suggestion tracc not happy with how clarry was managed is old, stale news rolled into this one to create a club in crisis narrative.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I'm not going to dance to the tune of peanuts like Morris like some puppet.

I posted a joke early in this thread asking for a gif with Morris as the organ grinder and demonland as the monkey.

And to be frank, that is what this thread largely feels like.

A bunch of adults dancing to the media's tune.

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

No chance - the pregame for our round 23 match had a segment in "Collingwood's youth" and were glowing in how bright the future looked. Proceeded to list a bunch of names I'd barely heard of. I was literally arguing with the TV about how pathetic it was trying to blow smoke up Collingwood's [censored] and asking what about Melbourne's youth, you know the kids who have actually shown something at AFL level? My wife and her family who were over all think I'm a lunatic 🤣

afl.com had an article in the lead up to our game tiltled:

Don't dream it's over: what pies need to make finals

the final paragraph:

'It technically isn't over yet, but surely not even McRae's miracle workers could pull this off.'

McRae's miracle workers?

How many times in VFL/AFL history has the premier failed to make the finals the following year?

Some miracle workers.

1 hour ago, smurf said:

Of this I have no doubt. If Collingwood or Carlton had access to early picks I do not believe Christian would be a Demon next season.

Now the hard work begins to get Trac the support he needs to rehab and get back to playing at his best. The club also needs to get to work and be a better run club top to bottom.

It's more than likely he wanted out, noting he has not publicly said that.

But I'm not convinced that even if they had the capital the pies or the blues would trade in petracca.

At the least, not on the coin he's currently getting.

22 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

This will galvanise the group.

We will see a huge pre season and resolve to prove those buggers that have been against us to eat their words.

I was thinking something similar.

If, and it's a big if, clarry gets super fit and tracc gets close to his optimal fitness we won't be talking about our midfield.

Particularly with kolt looking a monty to play as a mid forward pretty soon (waxing with tracc?) and having pick 5 in a draft with good midfield depth. 

JVR, Turner, Mcvee, Kolt and Windsor will go up a level with another preseason.

As you suggest, a huge preseason is critical - and if they can use this to get fired up all the good.

Having a few extra weeks break wont hurt either.

17 minutes ago, SFebes said:

The problems are....has this scared away any potential recruits, I reckon it has. Plus many issues still remain, including leadership and on field and off field issues. None of this has gone away just because he's signed. I know you know that but I think a fair bit of damage has been done now

Scare away potential recruits?

Good lord.

Sure, we might have had our share of drama, but every single football club has drama going on behind the scenes. 

And all our real drama was last season - clarry, Smith, Grundy.

If the drama was so unbearable for tracc he could have got to another club that would have satisfied the dees with drafts and trades.

It clearly wasn't so unbearable.

And if the issues are so bad, explain to me why young guns Windsor and Kolt resigned in july when neither had to worry about doing so for another two years.

Ditto for langers, who signed in August.

Ditto Turner, Laurie, amw and Jefferson.

But two weeks of tracc drama, which ends with him staying, and a potential recruit is going to say, no way, i ain't going to the dees.

Right.

The good news, and I mean this sincerely, is that the the tracc drama is done well before the seasons end.

Come the end of the finals it's  yesterday's news.

Just in time for wada to drop their findings.....

Now maybe the football media can start asking some questions about how the pies, the team every journ seemed to think was miles ahead of every other team last year, and set for a dynasty, missed  the finals this year.

Drinking their own bathwater?

Culture issue?

And perhaps ask why they allowed pednles to play with broken ribs foe two weeks

Maybe an article about why noble has requested a trade?

What about their list management - a third of their best 22 are 30 or over.

Perhpas Whately's sanctimony bazooka can be turned on them.

Time for the redemption arc part of the movie.

1 hour ago, adonski said:

Wow Damo has gone bang

Could be a post on demonland!

7 minutes ago, chookrat said:

We looked pretty fit vs Gold Coast.

Not really.

They looked unfit and disinterested.

3 hours ago, daisycutter said:

it begins with e and end with o

hint: 3 letter word

What does former name of Tokyo have to with tracc?

Is he branching out to Japanese food?

I guess it's healthy, so a good fit with his brand.

1 hour ago, Disco InTurno said:

So I’m originally from the states (I know, I’m sorry, it wasn’t my choice) and I’ve spent a lot of time watching diva players in sport (NBA in particular), but usually they have some level of leverage and/or only request a trade when they know other teams have the assets and interest to trade for them. 
 

The thing that gets me about this is I literally cannot see how Trac believes he has any leverage or other club interest at all. As many others have said here, when you combine the massive salary, the likely repercussions physically from the injury, the mental toll he’s discussed, the age, the toxic diva behaviour, and the assets required to get him, burning bridges—no matter how troubled the club is—seems shockingly ill advised. 

This is all just so bizarre and I feel like it’s inevitable that I catch your collective MFCSS after only a few years of membership… 😢

The tragic thing about MFCSS is that there is no cure.

It is like herpes - the symptoms can retreat but it's always lurking in tge system waiting to flare up.

If you are currently dealing with it, I recommend not consuming any football media.

And only read this thread on demonland - it's been years since I've read a thread with so many people agreeing with each other!

10 minutes ago, Demon Jack said:

FWIW, Petracca apparently made an appearance at Cody Weightman's art gallery opening in Fitzroy tonight doing some cooking demonstrations.

That's not a paragraph you would have read on demonland 10 years ago.

59 minutes ago, Nate said:

It's the silence from the club and player that frustrates me. Want to leave, even if it's against the clubs wishes? Just man up and say it. 

I'm sick of all these second rate journos spewing rubbish left, right and centre as well. 

What do you want the club to say other than what they have already said?

2 hours ago, No. 31 said:

LOL, point taken, but it is directly relevant to the Petracca/Trade/Carlton vortex that just emerged out of the blue in the last day or so. Martin out frees up cap space. Not sure if a Tracc to Carlton trade can be made but it is potentially possible, no way near as unrealistic as Tracc to Collingwood (which would be horrible).

Ironically, IIRC, the dees wete super keen to trade in Martin when the blues got him (as was i).