pm24

Adam

I would give Trengove the rest of the year off and put Magner in

Trengove is injured and needs rest

Magner might improve our ball winning

Unless Clark has been placed on the long-term injury list, there's no way we can actually select Magner to play. Given that Clisby got the upgrade to the rookie list, the only way Magner or Couch get a game is through another long-term injury. That's my understanding of it anyway.

Really?

If you reverse their score and they kicked 20.16 instead of 16.20, the end result would have been 136-85

A 51 point loss

Don't let me get in thew ay of your ridiculous hyperbole though

Is this the point where we point out that a number of their points came from rushed behinds and not kicks on goal?????

what about clark being the ruckman/forward that we need?

I don't care what he might end up becoming, we have 1 area of the ground which needs fixing, so lets just fix it

We've intentionally kept Clark as mainly a FF who just pinch hits in the ruck to allow Jamar Rest.

There is nothing to suggest that Boyd, who is 199cms and 102kgs, could do the same thing. Clark is only 1cm taller than Boyd and 3kgs lighter, so I don't see any problem with getting Boyd, or maybe Fitzpatrick to pinch hit in the ruck.

We could then keep our 1st round pick to acquire another mid like Aish, and have even more money to throw at an established midfielder once you take Clark's salary off the books.

This is how trading and free agency works in other sports like the NBA where it has been in place for years. Trade an already established A grader with currency in the market for a potential A grader in the draft, clear some salary space and then go shopping to fill other team needs.

Imagine how much more attractive our team looks to a free agent like Daisy when we have an extra $500k per annum free and a future forward line with Hogan and Boyd, along with developing mids like Toumpas, Viney, Kent plus guys like Nathan Jones and even Sylvia. Gotta think out of the box sometimes.

I just had a thought about the whole Boyd situation and GWS saying they'll trade the pick. We could trade for him, but it would mean giving up one of our already big fish, but would avoid us giving up a key developing midfielder.

Trade Mitch Clark + Tynan/Taggert + 2nd round pick for Boyd + 3rd round pick

What do people think. It might not be enough as I believe that GWS would want 2 experienced players, but I'm getting more and more concerned about Clark's foot. This way we would have a Hogan/Boyd combination developing together for 10-12 years, supported by Dawes, Watts, Howe + crumbing forward.

I've always dismissed the thought of getting Boyd because of the tall timber we already have, but Clark can be the Ruckmen/Forward GWS want and need.

Maxwell is an atrocious defender. Garland is one of the most versatile in the game.

Maxwell's main ability is to run off his opponent and give some decent run and carry. Regardless of what he has done in GF's past, if we are ranking them as DEFENDERs, then Garland win's by a country mile. I remember when we drew with Collingwood on QB and the way in which we were getting the ball into the forward line was to get it to Brad Green who was being "defended" by Nick Maxwell.

If you are looking for a defender Garland would be taken every day of the week by just about any team in the league.

I don't think we need to move on any of them because Jamar will probably retire in a season or two.

Unless there is a superb ruck prospect available in the draft or elsewhere, I think it is best for us to keep all four. Gawn, Spencer and Fitzy are all still young and would arguably contribute more than a rookie ruckman, plus with Jamar turning 30 next month, he probably has 2 seasons left in him, at which time Gawn will have been established as a No.1 ruckmen with Spencer the back-up and Fitzy the fwd/relief ruck. Not to mention Clarke (if he ever plays again).

We can still bring another ruck through the Rookie List (which we were obviously considering with our preparation to draft Jack Hannath). No need to drop any of the younger ruckmen just yet. Only move them if we get a good trade offer.

Did anyone else notice blease get assisted from the ground? He was then limping as he came back up from the race after the sub.

How do I take them......white with just one sugar thank you......

Sorry, it's Friday afternoon and the dad jokes are starting to come out.

I don't disagree with most of what he said in the article. Yes it could be viewed as being overly positive, but I actually think we do have a solid core for the future, and the addition of another couple of midfielders would make us even better.

Overall, I don't mind the articles, though they do seem to ramble at times. It's just nice to read something positive rather than all the negative newspaper articles.

Lucky enough to have a chat with Dom in the stands before queens birthday game. Concentrating on putting on weight but feels he's gotten stronger and improved his tank even at the cost of a little speed (nb was already elite endurance) was hopeful of a game this year but saw it as development. Commented that he'd already put on 5 kg and it was all very structured and going to plan. Loved playing around Hogan.

Asked him what the coaches wanted from him and answer was basically a young Davey, who he obviously loves.

I think you blokes smashing him will be pleasantly surprised eventually, but you're all a sick masochistic lot so whatever, this post was for those that actually cared for his thoughts.

Edited to make it sound like English.

Thanks for the insight mordja. I actually believe that we are doing much better with our player development in the last two years, which has been proven in the number of debutants that have come in and contributed. I have no concern about Barry. Everything I have read about him has been positive and I reckon in 2 years time he could be a permanent fixture in the best 22.

The thought of he and Blease breaking lines and sprinting down the wings is one thought that gets me pretty excited.

I'm loving the fact that we are hearing more and more reports about our players seeking out or being connected with established AFL stars of the past and current day. Trengove speaking to Ling is great.

Watts speaking to Jobe Watson is great - and is it just me or has Watts form improved since we heard news of this.

I'm not sure if this is being initiated by the club or the players themselves, but it is a great sign of the players being willing to learn and develop, even to the extent of finding good people outside of the club to help them along the way.

Despite the manner of the loss against Essendon one great thing I noticed after the game was how Brendan Goddard went straight over to Watts and seemed to have a good conversation, not just a short sharp "bad luck" or "good game" comment. It's just a very positive thing to see amongst all the other crap we read about.

So does that mean we wait until day 22 and then hire a new list manager! Too easy haha

But I think we will get around this pretty easily. All decisions in FD should be made collectively, from recruiting to list management to training times and methods of training. Hopefully our new GM and coach can work collectively and have understandings of a wide range of methods.

LOL, not quite that simple as applicants can ask for an extension of time due to "extenuating circumstances".

Thanks Pm24 long time since I was involved intimately in HR.

Is a technical argument of unfair dismissal ie true if is sole reason for dismissal and is not genuine but certainly affects the taxation and therefore the actual amount received by the individual and must be genuine for that purpose.

No doubt that if a redundancy is proved not to be genuine, there would be consequences from a tax perspective given the lump sum payments do not usually attract tax.

I think there is a confusion because the job titles seem the same. I think Harringtons role was more skewed towards the contractual and money side of things. I think Noble is far more involved with ehe actual list.

I could be wrong. Others would agree lol

Im sure Jackson has such things in hand. Hes no nong !!

It's important to note that in the article the position "list manager" is not used at all, rather they are reportedly trying to recruit Noble to be the Football Operations Chief.

Dont know that that stifles an unfair dismissal but it certainly affects the tax status of the payment

I am unsure of the time limit but it has to be a genuine redundancy to merit tax benefit

I'm not referring to the taxation side of it, but if the club was to claim that an employee was made redundant, which under the Fair Work Act effectively means that the job is not required by the employer to be performed by anybody, to then employ someone in that same role means that the redundancy is not a genuine redundancy as it does not fulfil the requirements under the Fair Work Act.

Therefore, if the club was to appoint someone as a list manager soon after removing Tim Harrington as list manager, it would be up for a potential unfair dismissal case. However there are limitations on when an individual can lodge a claim and my recollection is that it must be within 21 days of the dismissal taking effect.

I know that McKenzie is viewed differently by many here, but I get the feeling that if he is fit then he will play.

With that in mind, I'd probably amend TD's suggestion to include McKenzie.

IN: Frawley, Gawn, McKenzie

OUT: Pedersen, Spencer (susp), Nicholson

FB: Garland, Frawley, Terlich

HB: Dunn, McDonald, Terlich

C: M. Jones, N. Jones, Byrnes

HF: Howe, Watts, Trengove

FF: Fitzpatrick, Dawes, Davey

FOLL: Gawn, Sylvia, McKenzie

INT: Blease, Toumpas, Kent

SUB: Rodan

EMERG: Davis, Nicholson, Sellar

Davis on standbye for Chip, Garland or Tommy Mac.

Sellar on standbye for Gawn or Fitzy.

Nicholson to come in if anyone else was a late change to give us another midfielder.

Not sure that siting Bennel as a comparison does much for Barry pm24.

Give the kid a break surely he will be better than that!

I think you need to re-read my post. I am actually saying that Barry has already shown more than Bennel ever did. Surely that's a positive comment not a negative comment.

According to this South Australian article David Noble is a possible target as the new List Manager.

Demons target Noble

Seems to know his job, but then we've thought that about many.

Get the right man MFC. He ( DN) might be it, or another. I get the impression his role at the crows is different to that which Harrington had. Is going to be interesting how Jackson works out whos doing what, who to keep , who to move sideways or otherwise.

I'm sorry but there's one fundamental problem with this rumor. If Tim Harrington has legitimately been made redundant and there is not longer a "list manager" role in the club, then Noble could not be brought in as a "list manager", because that would mean that the club would open itself up to an unfair dismissal case for Harrington. It would cast doubts over the legitimacy of the redundancy.

Also, from the article it is clear that we are not actually looking at Noble to be a list manager, rather we are looking at him for the Football Operations Manager role.

This is the excerpt from the article:

As the Demons prepare to build a new football department around a new coach, Noble already has been identified by those advising Melbourne on ideal candidates for the role of football operations chief.

Still, it'd be good to have another experienced Football brain in the football department.

Watts wants to stay and so he should. We would look extra stupid dispensing of our sole remaining No. 1draft pick after what we have just gone through and then holding our hands out for a priority pick! (Extra stupid after dispensing with Morton, Cook, Gysberts and McClean and Scully walking out on us!)

The number a player was drafted at should have no bearing on the way we treat that player after they have been drafted. Morton, Cook and Gysberts are still yet to play another senior game of AFL since departing us, and Cook is only playing for North Ballarat, not even on a senior AFL list. Only McLean and Scully walked out, and that hasn't necessarily been a big loss for us. Though McLean got us Gysberts and now Gysberts has gotten us Pedersen (a bit of a failure so far), the compensation picks for Scully enabled us to swing some trades that got us Hogan, Barry, Dawes and Viney. The loss of Scully has been a great benefit to the club.

We should ensure that we retain Watts because he is a unique player in the league with the foot and hand skills of a midfielder, a continually developing body, elite speed, and a very versatile 195cm player of which there are few in the league. Also, the fact that he has really shown something in the last 12 months, means we should make sure we keep a guy who has already indicated he wants to be here.

I think Barry has shown more in the run and carry stakes then Bennell and Jetta ever have. Barry has more speed than both of those guys and looks to be a genuine line-breaker.

Why must some always take the view that every player that is like a player who has previously failed to live up to expectations will also not live up to expectations? It's good to be realistic, but no need to be negative all the time.

That's bull, dropped some sitters and laughed about one of them, good at presenting but needs to hold his marks and make the most of the few opportunities he gets

I thought kicking 2 goals 2 from limited opportunities was a decent result. Yeah he should have marked that one in the pocket, and he knew it, but he was certainly one our better players and has been the last few weeks.

Were they Neeld's or Vineys? Also the recycled players from Afl clubs are probably fails at this stage.

I think Rodan has been a positive, and Byrnes has also been a positive in many games. No one expected them to dominate, we expected them to show leadership and help develop the culture of the club.

In my mind the only questionable move was not bringing in Pedersen, but bringing him in and signing him for 3 years. I would have been ok with 2 years, but three seems a bit much. However, I think he could become a useful defender, and as we have little in the way of depth in the back half, we need guys like him that can swing forward and back. It's just an unfortunate reality.

I think we have 5 AFL quality defenders who are pretty good when you look at Terlich, Garland, Frawley, McDonald (disposal aside), and Grimes (rather than in the midfield) but they are supported by guys like Dunn, Sellar, Pedersen, Davis, Clisby (some good signs), Strauss (could be a good half back flanker still), Tynan and Nicholson. We lack a quality small-mid sized defender and general depth for tall defenders. So guys like Pedersen and Sellar are needed at the moment.

But back on topic, Kent is fast becoming one of my favourite young prospects. This guy is just hard at the ball, has a booming kick, and a real hunger to win. He's what Tapscott should be.

I thought Dom was projected as a 2nd or 3rd round pick?

Regardless, he has characteristics that our team needs with his run and carry, and burst of speed.

This needs to be a genuine redundancy otherwise the club would be risking an unfair dismissal case. This just seems to be apart of the football department restructure that we've been told about since Jackson took over. I'm not all that unhappy with Harrington's work, particularly the last two years, and even some of the late picks prior to that. Overall he has had more successful picks then duds. Think Howe, McDonald, Taggert, Clisby, M Jones, Terlich, Toumpas, Hogan, Viney, Barry.

I still can't understand why they re-signed Evans ahead of the likes of Watts and Sylvia though. Surely you work out the guys on the more money then look at guys like Evans down the lower end. Might be just me but I though it was strange.

The club can't just decided who to re-sign when. Not with player managers involved. Maybe they knew they could sign Evans early because he was willing to sign early. Watts, as a more established player, may have received advice from his player manager not to sign to early, but to get a good body of work on the field to show his value which might translate into a better contract. Watts hasn't been consistent as a player yet, but is showing more in the last couple of weeks than he has previously. If he continues to play like he has for the last two weeks, then his value in contract negotiations would go up. It's not always in the club's hands.

A world where a negligent act gets penalised more harshly than an intentional act, regardless of the outcome, is one that is truly backwards in my view.

I think people need to remember why the club probably selected Toumpas in the first place. He is not a in and under player, he is a player that can win his own ball, but it is how he uses that is first class. We have a dearth of good ball users but he was one of the best in the draft, and was looked at as easily a top 3 pick. Give him time, and stop expecting him to be something that he wasn't recruited to be.

We didn't need to pick Wines when we knew we had Viney at pick 26. If we grabbed Wines and Viney, then we'd have a heap of grunt but not much polish. Toumpas is the polish we need.

Well if we get a priority pick, how about we just trade pick 1 (Thomas Boyd) to Freo for Fyfe + pick or to Brisbane for Rich + pick??

I firmly believe it would be poor form for us to trade Hogan. The kid has already proven himself at VFL level, which is something we cannot really saying about some of the others in the draft. Plus, he is the type of Forward that does not come along very often and would prove a fantastic partner for Watts in the forward line for the long term.

Clark and Dawes are in their mid 20's we need someone there when they are on the way out. Lets not make the same mistake we made in the Daniher era when we traded away picks for experienced players, and leave ourselves with an even bigger hole in the future.