Sdemon53

Does the name Brent Moloney mean anything at Demonland??????

Yes we got him from Geelong but he was and is a Melbourne person just like Brad Green and the rest of our captains at the Melbournefc. Surely Brent would have what we want as a captain. That is the hard leadership we need.

Mitch has got to earn his colours first.

I've got this theory that Neeld doesn't rate Prendergast. I think its why he didn't trade Bate for a second round pick or delist anymore than the minimum players. Sure Bate is training well, but he's still got a lot of work to do to prove he's got an AFL future.

I also think it was part of why he was decisively willing to trade for Clark.

Now you can't sack a recruiter in October/November, it would just throw you into disarray, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was Predergast's last draft for the MFC. Also if he found himself replaced by someone, it could possibly be from Collingwood (although head recruiter Hine is contracted). Fatguts Phil Scully need not apply.

Anyone else think I'm crazy? I just don't think the players we have recruited fit well with the players Neeld wants. That and the sweeping changes in coaching at the club make me think Neeld may as well start from basics with the recruiting. It certainly would have helped someone like Wallace at Richmond.

Once again the case of the Melbournefc mob shooting the messenger. Well thought out THE MASTER.

And it could have been so much better. I remember having a chat with Jim Cardwell at the end of an MFC AGM in the early 1970s. They used to send those of us who stayed on to a canteen area near the old long room where we were served drinks, party pies and sausage rolls and the committee, staff and players came to answer any questions the members had to ask. Someone asked Jim about the great players he signed up and who became members of our great premiership decade and he told us that the best of them all never came down from the country to play for the club. His name was Bill Barham and Jim swore that he would have been a champion if only he wanted to play in the city. Barham was the father of Collingwood star Ricky Barham, a winger for the Pies in the 70s who was recruited from their country zone. Two other sons, Bill Jr. and Jamie had brief careers with the Demons. Jim went on to say he had St. Kilda legend Darryl Baldock signed on a Form 4 in 1958 but that lapsed after two years. He also spoke about how close he came to getting Polly Farmer and later Peter Hudson. Geelong and North Melbourne premiership player and champion full forward Doug Wade trained at Melbourne in the 1959 pre season. Smith sent him home to beef up because he felt he was too light for a VFL KPP. Wade took Smith's advice but instead of coming back in 1960 he went to Kardinia Park. I don't think Jim forgot a thing. Someone should write a book about him one day.

Whispering Jack you could imagine what could have been if we did not the political rubbish going from 1963 at Melbourne and the MCC supported their football side. I have no doubt with a stable club and more money Jim Cardwell would have maintained a lot stronger side than we had. In the late 80's I met Graham Wise in Albury, he had a motel near Soden's Hotel. Graham said that Norm Smith suggested that he leave at the end of the 1966 season. The feeling I got was that he could have put in a few more seasons. The gist of what I remember is that Norm was not happy how the club was being run and he thought it better for some players to leave. Ever since I have always wondered what if Sir Albert Chadwick had been able to stay on as chairman for another 10 years or so. He was the President of the MCC from 1963 - 1978, so therefore his master was the MCC instead of the Melbourne Football Club. The other very big influence Melbourne had was Frank 'Checker' Hughes. From some of the comments from past players such as Stuart Spencer for one who spoke about him with great respect. Checker was born in 1894 so he was getting on in the sixties. Even though he coached the side in 1965 for one game.

Another player Jim Cardwell had signed up was Barrie Robran. However Robran wouldn't make the move to Victoria. For those that never saw Barrie Robran play he would now be considered probably one of the best players in the AFL. He dominated the SAFL from about 1967 until Leigh Matthews hit him late in a interstate match which stuffed his knee up in 1974 and therefore was not the force he once was. I only ever saw him play in interstate matches and he certainly was as good as any player the big V had.

I mentioned above the situation at Melbourne in the post Norm Smith era and the phenomenon that some have described as the Norm Smith curse but I've often wondered how different the club's history might have been had the Red Fox been appointed coach of the club when he first applied for the job.

When Melbourne won its sixth premiership in 1948 (thanks to a brilliant finals series from key forwards Smith and Jack Mueller), long term coach Frank V. 'Checker' Hughes decided to retire as coach. Smith applied for the position but the committee decided (by a single vote) to award it to former champion player and premiership captain, Allan LaFontaine. Smith switched to Fitzroy as captain-coach where he had moderate success while the aging Demons under La Fontaine crashed down to the bottom of the ladder by 1951.

Smith returned and the rest is history but I wonder what might have happened had he been appointed to coach the club for the 1949 season. The club was about to experience a downward slide and was desperately in need of a rebuild. Would he have remained long enough to benefit from the recruitment of those champion players who came to the club in 1953 & 1954 and had such an immediate impact on the game.

There's no question that Smith's wizardry and coaching guile was a significant contributory to the six premierships and Melbourne's domination of the decade from 1955 onwards but was it a case of being in the right place at the right time and would he have been there at all if appointed as coach on his first try at the end of 1948?

Whispering Jack the result would still probably be roughly the same as it was as Albert Chadwick became chairman of the board in 1950 and Jim Cardwell was secretary from 1951. Norm Smith would have had the same players as La Fontaine. Plus he would still be a coach learning how to do the job. Norm has said his years at Fitzroy was a great learning experience. The other factor is the club still had to recruit many of our premiership players. Ian Ridley told me that while Smith was a great coach he still had some of the best players running around in those days in the Melbourne team. What Norm Smith did was get the best out of them more often than not according to Ridley.

The MFC era of success was not just one man. It was a number of players, officials. The success did not stop with the departure of one person. Smith's departure was the highest profile of them. But MFC enjoyed access and service from some of the top footballers in the land. Through the MCC, MFC was able to offer benefits that other clubs could not. MFC had access to the benefits of the MCC and MCG that belittled other clubs. But the game was slowly changing. And many of the people who saw the rise of MFC in its heyday were also prominent in its fall from grace (eg Jim Caldwell - recruiting).

Please explain your comment here regarding Jim Cardwell. He was NOT prominent in its fall from grace. The fact is that Jim did not have the resources that the other clubs had. I suggest you read my post above. Everyone thinks it was Norm Smith but I can tell you without Jim Cardwell, Norm would not have had the players. The fact Jim was at the club until 1975 does not mean he did not try like hell to get the best players to the club with limited funds. Please be careful what you say and get your information right. I know I am right because I have spoken to players from the era plus having a friend that had a father that was a mate of Jim Cardwell.

It was more than just Smith and Barassi going. Great point about the advantages of the MCC and MCG. As far as recruiting is concerned, MFC no longer had the leg up on other sides in regards benefits. And its also worth noting that we lacked a product suburban base to source supporters.

bush demon and Whispering_Jack you are right to a certain extent. The reality as was hinted by bush demon (said board) the MCC was not willing to increase its financial support so the Melbourne Football Club could compete in the recruiting stakes. The other problem was the large percentage of MCC members that followed Melbourne considered their MCC fees meant they also supported the MFC. Therefore we had a low membership.

So therefore because of the Melbourne setup and out dated thinking the board did not support Norm Smith. The other factor here is that the board members would also be MCC members with 2 representing the MCC. From what I have been told Jim Cardwell also had more than his share of fights with the board and MCC.

The other big factor here is Sir Albert Chadwick as Chairman of the board. From what I have been told Sir Albert was a brilliant negotiator and leader. Sir Albert retired from the board at the end of 1962.

Wonderfull suggestion. As a kid I had the opportunity to see Norm play. I think his no was 4. Stand corrected. Best memory again 1948. Grand Finals Norm was selected at CHF with Jack Mueller at FF. Jack stood in the goal sq all the forwards drifted up to the centre would grab the ball and pump it down to Jack most times one out. From reading on the Forum I feel Neeld may be in the mould of Norm,big call. Great times ahead. Give up never won a race.

Yes he wore jumper No.4 except in 1939 when he had jumper No.3 while he played for Melbourne.

Didn't he say "I'm excited to go to melbourne as my first club"?? Says it all really

He probably was excited at the time. But he got even more excited when $$$$$$ was put in front of him.

When we selected him was his father working for Sydneyfc? If so then I would have thought that would be a negative for the MFC.

Just started read The Red Fox last night, it's been sitting on my shelf all year. There's also a website (theredfox.com.au) where you can view his (and his brother Len's) iconic coaching booklet "Lectures on Football" amongst other things.

I only read the first chapter so far but what really interested me was the Forward written by his son in which he states that the thing that upset Norm the most in his time in football wasn't the sacking in 1965, but the members failing to vote him onto the board 2 years later in 1967. Apparently that really got to him and basically ended his 35 year tenure with the club. Considering our incompetence in administration since the golden age I wondered how different things might have been had we had a giant like Smith on the board.

Norm would have been a lone wolf on the board. He would have shown them to be the useless lot that they were. That is why the board made sure he did not get elected. We will never know the truth of the result but it would not surprise me if there was some creative accountancy going on. From memory I think the voting was a lot more restrictive than it is today.

If Norm Smith had got onto the board he also would have fought like hell to build a far stronger team. To do this the MCC would have to financially back the football club a lot more than it wanted to do. So as you may gather Norm Smith was really up against it from the start.

We need to get rid of 4 players so we can have 3 selections in the draft.

Bate, Maric and Warnock need to be traded for draft picks.

We have to get rid of another player.

Do we trade Dunn or de-list Wona and redraft as a Rookie. The big risk here is that GWS could take Austin before our pick in the Rookie Draft.

Nice work! You must be as old as me. Ed Burston!! I watched him kick 6 goals against Hawthorn one day in 1966. He now lives on the Mornington peninsula. I bumped into him about 10 years ago. He couldn't beleive that I remember him. A couple of other boom recruits in my time: Tony Thiessen, Hugh Bromell, Graeme Molloy.

Graham Molloy and John Tilbrook unfortunately could never play at their best because of injury. Interestingly they came to the club in the Jim Cardwell era. I would not think that Burston, Thiessen and Bromwell would qualify as boom recruits.

Based over the 22 games played this season I would suggest that a Melbourne player would struggle to get in the top 200 players for the league.

Our performance was way down compared to 2010. We might have got the same win/loss ratio, but the KPI indicators gave a different story.

It is very interesting what is being said about Brian Royal. When he was appointed I expressed my concerns with him being a backline coach. Result being I was right royally attacked by idiots that post on this site. Well I can say today I was well and truly vindicated by my concerns. Today did we have a backline?

Dean Bailey should go now with the rest to follow at the end of the season. The only one I would keep is Todd Viney.

What I do not understand is that "Jack Hill the blind coal miner from Wonthaggi" could see that Bailey was not getting anywhere with players all year. Yes we won games against lower sides but when it counted the players went off the boil. The fact we played like girls (today for example, except for Jordie McKenzie) is probably the biggest indicator that Bailey had lost the players.

In fact the whole FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT should have the blow touch applied to every position.

The only way the members can get positive change is by letting the club know how we feel. Today we went backwards so far that we should be sent to the VFL reserves level.

If the board is fair dinkum they should call a crisis meeting and make the ruthlessly hard decisions.

I have been a Melbourne person since the 1950's and it feels as though a bit of me died today. We should not just rollover and accept this sort of rubbish. A look at history should tell us that we have been there before and we have come back and won premierships.

I'd love to know what he's going to say to them at half time.

What can he say, other than they have no respect for the jumper. The only player he can talk about is Jordie McKenzie.

If Dean wanted to really give it to them Bailey could inform them that all Melbourne players including those that played for Casey will be rounded up and made to walk back to Melbourne and kept in line with cattle prods.

Will the board do something about this pathetic situation? No would be the answer judging by history.

Bailey to get offered a contract extension if we win 10 games, according to Gerard Healey via a source.

I can't see us beating Carlton or West Coast so it seems he could get an extension with a couple of soft wins to end the season.

If the source is correct, great news for Bailey fans.

Dean Bailey has gone as far as he can with our player list imo. What good would it do for the club to have a waisted year. If our board takes the easy way out and extends his contract then we are just back to having useless leadership at the club. However I will say that it is not all Bailey the board needs to tell Connolly that all positions in the football department should be questioned.

I am not having a go at Jim Stynes. However I would like to think that Jim could once again show leadership and make the ruthless decisions we require if we are to win another PREMIERSHIP.

I do not care what anyone says we need a big target up front and that is why Gawn has to play for the rest of the year. It will also help Watts and Jurrah. Gawn also provides the added bonus of being able to go in the ruck as well. Martin can go down back or play as a ruck rover.

If Gawn had came into the side today instead of Bennell with Bate as sub we would have been a lot better off. Martin would have been a big help down back. Plus Gawn would have at least given us a better option up front allowing other players to play off him.

The big problem we have is that Bailey does not have a clue how to select a side that allows us to play to our advantage. I remind those that think Gawn is just another big bloke. He is taller than most so needs to be watched. Max is very agile for a big guy and has the ability to contest the ball at ground level. He does not get any shorter in the last quarter. Plus he is a very good tap ruckman if need in the forward line.

ARGH!!!

Fire away!

POOR conditioning leads to POOR physical management of the players.

There is no doubt about it the Melbourne players are not anywhere near fit enough to be a top 8 side.

To add insult to injury the side is poorly managed on match day plus being poorly coached overall as well.

Dean Bailey and his assistant coaches are now in their 4th season at the club. We seem to be getting nowhere compared to emerging and top teams. Our skills are still shocking and we have a very poor game plan.

If Bailey is the teaching coach then why aren't the players learning?

The whole FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT needs a total shake out and we should get people that know what is needed and who can give the players the SKILLS, the GAME PLAN and HARDNESS we need.

You guys are in la la land about Campbell. Will never play senior footy again.

I would not bet on that. If he can get some sort if fitness he will be in. Bailey will play him out of FF. He seems to be a better option that Martin. I was hoping Spencer could do the same but that has gone up in smoke for this season. The other option is Max Gawn but I think that he needs a full season with Casey before senior selection.

The ones I have include;

100 Years of Football - The story of the Melbourne Football Club by ECH Taylor (1958)

150 Heroes - 150 Players. 150 Years. Melbourne Football Club by Garrie Hutchinson (Hardie Grant Books)

Barassi by Peter Lalor (Allen & Unwin)

Melbourne FC - An Illustrated History by Various Authors (Geoffrey Slattery Publishing 2008)

Ron Barassi - Icons of Australian Sport (Hyperactive Publishing) <--- this is a cracker, a scrapbook of news clippings from his career.

Sacked Coach by Stan Alves and Col Deane (Crown Content)

The Demon Within by Garry Lyon (HarperSports)

The Red Fox by Ben Collins (Slattery Media Group)

Tom Wills - His Spectacular Rise and Tragic Fall by Greg DeMoore (Allen & Unwin)

Would love to read the Flower and Stynes books as well. Not so sure on the Schwarz book unless I can get it second hand considering it's wafer thin and far too expensive for what there is.

Also wouldn't mind a copy of Grand Old Flag by Lynda Carroll if anyone has one lying around that they want to get rid of.

Just had a look at different book search engines to see how much they are selling Grand Old Flag for as secondhand books. The price ranges from $88.00USD to $150+USD. I remember the club was just about giving this book away.

This was true in 2009, but in 2010 we were only ranked 10th for goals per i50, and 12th for total scores per i50.

This is where we are really falling down. Ranked 16th for 2010 (below Essendon, who were criticised for no defensive pressure, FFS!)

IMO, the real thing that needs looking into is defensive pressure in the midfield/HBF. The amount of times a game we'd get the ball to the centre of the ground only to see it coming straight back was incredibly frustrating.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he sign a contract extension with the club before welching and going to Essendon? Seems to me that the FD did what they could to keep him....

I was told he only agreed to stay on at the club and that he signed no contract. Like the rest of us I can only go on reports and what we are told. I think the message I got was that we may have missed getting a specialist defensive coach because of the situation.

Oh no! Unnamed past-player is concerned about an assistant coaching appointment for reasons which have nothing to do with his coaching ability...

Can I ask a question; if Connolly knew Hird was going to get the gig at Essendon so early, and Wellman and Hird are such great mates, is there no way that Wellman would also have had this information?

Wow, hang on, more revelations.

2011 (Bailey's FOURTH year as coach) will be a real test? Better call the Herald Sun or Sandra Sully and let them know.

It is pathetic I think some of you people that post on this site are really sick and evil people. You obviuosly do not care abould the Melbourne Football Club. I have supported the MFC for over 50 years and been a member now for 42 years. I want the club to be the best on and off the field. With some of you that carry on it sounds like you would like living under a dictatorship and never question what is happening.

I am sorry but I have been brought to think in Australia we are all able to reasonably give our opinions. The big point about this past player is the fact he is very confident that we can win a premiership in the near future. In the past he has not been like he is now.

Is that "concerned" as in worried (I'm concerned about young Jimmy's marks in school) or as in interested (as far as I'm concerned, Jimmy's marks are none of your business)?

Concerned as in more interested in what is happening with the club. He said more past players are getting involved than in the Gardner era.

Not a cheap shot at all, this guy has history and this is just one of many times he has criticised the club and any decisions made by the new board.

I have just had a very interesting conversation with a respected past player of the club. He is not 100% happy about the Brian Royal appoinment as well. However for different reasons. He has no worries with Royal as a coach. What he said was that Chris Connolly stuffed up the situation. He said he was told half way through the season that Knights would be sacked and Hird appointed the new coach of Essendon. Connolly should have known that and that Wellman and Hird are good friends. So therefore as he said Connolly should have nailed Wellman down with a water tight contract with very short time to sign to see if he wanted to stay at Melbourne towards the end of the season. The other reason is that the timing was bad for the football department. He thought the appointment of Royal was OK in the situation. But he is worried with the coaching at both ends of the ground. As he said we are well covered in the midfield with the having Todd Viney at the club. He thought Todd would be vital in improving play around the ball-up and boundary situations with stoppages of play.

The other comment was that he thought 2011 will be the real test for Bailey. He saw signs in 2010 that Dean Bailey could be a very good coach.

He also said that he expects all Melbourne people to yes support the club but make sure that the right decisions are made. As he said we have had the head in the sand period that could have sunk the club. The past players he speaks to are now more concerned with what is happening at the club. He said we have a very healthy situation at the club and we all should make sure it stays that way.

No I don't have the facts that is why I leave it up to the club, this club so far has done everything right, if they feel he is the right person for the job that is good enough for me

Having blind faith is not what the Melbourne Football Club needs. Having blind faith like you have got us into trouble and we could have lost our club.

We all should be vigilante as to how the club is run and the results we get on and off the field. I for one will always ask the question have we made the right decision. The appointment of Brian Royal may turn out to be a very good one. The performance of the team will provide the answer one way or the other. However the reaction of Frawley had when it was announced that Wellman had gone to Essendon worries me for season 2011.

And you know best? think I will leave it up to the club to make these decisions not wannabe experts who don't have all the facts......

Yes I do not have all the facts just like you. I am just giving my thoughts on the appointment of Brian Royal. You do not have to be extremely nasty about what I have said.

Brian is a very nice person and I have no doubt he will do his best. But I am in fear that we will have a Brett Ratten situation again. Ratten had a big impact on the midfield at Melbourne, but when he left it went downhill.

Really all I am asking is are we replacing an apple with another apple? My gut feeling is that we may have gone for the orange.