Mad_Melbourne

Coversation that could have taken place between Viney and Neeld: Viney: Wow, i really want Wines to come to Melbourne, i hope there is a way that we can get him to the club. Neeld: Yes, Wines does look like a likely type, do you think we should take him with pick 4? Viney: Here is our top 10, currently it sits like this, ...... Toumpas, Wines...... soo whilst he would have obviously wanted Wines, he may not have rated him ahead of Toumpas and when he was available we took him. its alot of he said/she said and in hindsight it was the obvious wrong decision, although they could both have 8 years left in their careers

to be fair, Todd Viney choosing Dom Barry over Jed Anderson was probably the most questionable selection from that time. Regardless of how their careers ended up and Jed Anderson has struggled at Hawthorn, he was clearly the best prospect out of the NT at the time. Regardless of what Todd Viney wanted, he was eitehr not strong enough on his conviction or was too easily persuaded to change his mind towards Toumpas. Imagine if Paul Roos said to Jason Taylor "We want darcy parish instead of Clayton Oliver", i think Taylors response would be irrate. It is his job to choose who we pick and I understand that Neeld did play a significant role on the draft table that year, only because we couldnt have Taylor until the year after. Kent was a win imo

I get the concept, but il bet ya it's not the case for 10-15 players in the squad. Hogan, Jones, Gawn, Vince, Viney, T-Mac Dunn all walk into the team and would do so on pretty limited minutes and a terrible nab cup

just type the heading into a google search and you should be able to click a link and read it

As stated earlier, game was watched last year. Also stated didn't get the opportunity to see much of him this year. My main contention was before the draft I felt his athleticism would be an issue for him to progress and lowered his chance of success in my opinion. But I also stated I have complete faith that Jason Taylor and crew know lots better than I do so therefore I am coming round to his many strengths outweighing his, imo, lack of athletic ability.

i agree, i have never said that i am correct, all i stated was that he looked slow and had a large turning circle and that was why i was sceptical about him leading into the draft! although, i feel it would be more matches that most of the posters here were able to see and probably gives a better indication than a highlights package. Does that mean all posts on this forum are basically redundant, especially on draftees as they probably have seen minimal of all players?

Highlights clips are exactly that, you see when the ball is in his area and very rarely do they show the work in the lead up to that or his sprints in order to create a lead. Regardless of your viewing of his highlight clips, did you actually get to see him play football in order to formulate an opinion or do you stick to watching highlights clips to base your views on a footballer. It worked with your initial views of Clayton Oliver, who we picked at three and once it looked like that was going to be the case you backflipped on your views. The comparisson of Wiedeman to Boyd is a fair one, in my opinion as they are similar type of footballers and whilst i hope nothing more than to see Wiedeman succeed now that he is in a Melbourne jumper, it did not change that before the draft I was underwhelmed by what i had seen of him. I have full faith in Jason Taylor and the recruiting guys and back them in to do their jobs, but that still does not mean that in the game i saw he looked slow and as i did not get to see him at the carnival this year it is the only real vision of him i can run with.

From the game I watched, his turning circle looked rather large, thats not to say you cant be a good footballer with one e.g. Travis Cloke, even Jesse Hogan has a reasonably large turning circle. Athletiscism is not all that is required to play as a good key position forward, but it is clearly a debatable issue. Key forwards running 3.24 in the 20m is not good speed and he does not look quick on the field, but he does as stated by Jason Taylor "attack the ball in the air" It is clearly an opinionated statement, but it was from watching him play in a game for the eastern ranges last year. My view on players is hardly gospel, but how many times did you see him play in order to form an opinion or is it all based off other peoples views? Quigley has a good eye for talent and had him at 18...

I was not so concerned by his beep, it does usually take a little bit longer for the taller players to build a tank historically, but from his footage and a game i saw of him (granted it was last year) i thought he looked really slow and had a turning circle of a truck, this really reminded me of Tom Boyd and I personally think that those charecteristics really make it tough to succeed in a key position at AFL. That said, he attacks the ball so well in the air and finishes his work, it is tough to make the tranisition to AFL level and I would love for him to be a success story. Before the draft i was not as sold, but that said as we picked him up I probably was a bit more easily swayed. Sanderson has a great footy mind, I remember once having a quick chat to him at an airport lounge and he was really accomodating, but i doubt he would say a bad word about the draft class as it is not in anyones interest for him to really harp on the negatives.

I personally am not sold on Wiedeman, athletically I think he will struggle, that being said, the more i read about him and a few of the conversations i have had with people who know what they are talking about, think that he would have been the premium forward in the draft had he played the carnival. Either way, he interviews really well, he comes across as a really good kid and that is a great start, now he just needs to put the effort in on the track and put some good performances in at VFL and we will be laughing.

Whilst the stats seem underwhelming, im pretty sure both were for around 60% game time, playing more of a forward flank role. I think hes got the goods, just hope he can translate it to afl level.

I just like that in 5 years time it looks like we will have the best inside midfield in the comp, whilst the draft crop may not have been as deep the top 15 are as good as any other, it just happened that 4-5 of those were unavailable due to being academy players. I really like this fella, more so because of how good nick he got himself into after the season finished, it was clearly just excess weight due to O.P and probably not watching what he ate. Fitness will sky rocket but the only thing i dont like is watching him bounce the football, jeez that was ugly. Clayton, welcome to the melbourne football club, enjoy the constant comparrisons to Darcy Parish and also the completely negative posts when inevitably you make a mistake.

This is probably due to his sub 3 second 20 metre and really good evasive step, JKH has the step but not the break away speed.

The funniest thing I noticed was the clear difference between the country bumpkin who has not been through the AIS and therefore has no media training and the prim and proper private school boy with media training in Wiedeman. Loved both aspects but the difference between the two was quite humorous

This is the argument im most keen on exploring... Positionally, inside mids do have a much easier transition to AFL football and the bigger bodies are suiting the direction of the modern game more. That said, Parish is an inside mid, so its hard to say that his game would not translate to AFL level with multiple mids being around his height too. Secondly, Oliver can be seen as more of a risk due to already having OP issues, not having played the carnival either years when compared to an injury free player who was all Australian both years. What are the relative odds of success from a player who did not actually play the carnival or reach all australian status relative to the other? Its interesting to think about, either way il be happy!

Brett Anderson tweeted we would not select Parish with 3. Grain of salt

Massive EDFL player, really stiff to not be drafted based on his height more so than anything. On Oliver, he just seems to fit the bill of competitive and that is what we have looked to address over the trade period and also the last couple of years. His disposal is average, but kicking it out of clearances makes disposals look a lot poorer. I really like Oliver and I really like Parish so I would be happy to take both. I'm growing on the idea that we will take both with Essendon passing on him with one of their earlier picks. But who knows. Parish/Oliver/McKay. They are the three players I want.

Parish being compared to players like Toumpas and even Aish, which hasn't been said on here is completely ridiculous due to his contested ball numbers. Parish is probably the 3rd best mid in the draft and Oliver the 5th dependent on people's ratings, but that's how I have it. That said, I think Oliver has chance to make a more immediate impact but Parish is a 2-3 year prospect before consistent AFL!! Il take either of them though and even both ...

Toumpas and Parish are very poor comparisons. I'd almost say Sam Mitchell v Jordan Lewis In terms of style of play and possible ceiling?

Biggest clutch at straws i have seen in a player comparrison for a while, players can kick off both feet and he sure can kick from distance with both, but his passing around the ground leaves much to be desired and his kicking would be in the below average - average category as opposed to Bernie who is elite

Hardly would be, at current Essendon can ill afford to get rid of players with potential even if they have been sub performing. The list has suffered from the draft sanctions, poor list management and lack of actual quality footballers. Whilst Melksham is no superstar he is still a top 10 talent who has shown some potential to be a decent footballer. No games what soever they would much rather him on their list than traded.

I was purely arguing with his statement that he thinks Watts and Howe have underperformed and are not as good footballers relative to Melksham due to them not winning us games and being 100 game players. I do have my concerns in terms of bringing him over impacting the game time we can get into our younger brigade, earlier I stated my main reasoning for not understanding bringing him in is that he is not immediately top 22 and thus will prevent players like ANB and Harmes getting games. ANB is not a small forward but rather a midfielder and will eventually push into this role and I would prefer to see him push into this role. That being said, I understand the need to continually improve the list and have no qualms if we are bringing players in to do so. Of course Goodwin and Taylor will have more idea on what they want to bring in and his strengths and weaknesses and as they have continually been doing good work i have no problems with any player they bring in. The biggest concern i have is his percieved value by Essendon in terms of trade, they will argue he is a top 10 draft pick with potential, obviously a required player due to the 2 year contract offer and he has a top 5 in their BNF. That seems like late first round to early second round pick and personally i would rather go to the draft. A straight player swap and I think we would have more value on our list from Watts or Trengove or Howe than Melksham. So to me, it just seems like its a bit of a tough one because i see the trade being a third round pick, or a player like Toumpas + picks or something in that ilk, but its allabout risk v reward. If we get him for the right price, great, we have improved our list.

Id argue both are doing more when compared to Jake Mellsham. Who has also played 100 games and clearly not winning Essendon games. Your method/reasoning is awful and purely wrong. Given the chance to resign Howe and hold onto Watts or give a spot on the list to Mellsham it is a no brainer

its too easy to stick the boot in on an anonymous forum so i will not bother continuing down that track. I am sure he is good to his family and friends as most people are. None the less, it does not make my statements of what he can offer to the team incorrect as he played his best season through the midfield as a tagger. He has limited flexibility and I would still prefer to get games into our younger players ahead of signing a midfielder who would be competing with them rather than a cut above.

Average footballer, sub-average bloke, does not really offer anything that we are in desperate need for, has no flexibility (just an out and out midfield plodder) but is probably an improvement on our other NQR who will most likely be delisted anyway. Personally, I would prefer the club playing guys like ANB and Harmes ahead of him, but that would be the spot he is competing for.