Hot as Hell

3 hours ago, jnrmac said:

They are clearly our weakest two players (if you ignore Fristch and Maynard who have played one game between them). The fact they play in the same 'line' concerns me no end but how they play will go a fair way to determining whether we win the match.

I really hope not jnrmac!

I think the inclusion of players who are not quite right means we will very much rely on our best players to do more than they should be asked to. Down back Nev, Hibbo and Lever will need to carry extra pressure with Hunt relying on his speed to create some space. 

If we don't win the centre clearances, we will see what Wags and O Mac have got, or not. 

I want to be open minded. That means we must win the clearances and stop the Cats from getting anywhere near our defence. But the Cats know that already. 

Tyson will be missed. Not for his below average disposal, but because he can extract the ball in close. Selwood and Ablett now need not worry about that. 

Tomahawk will feeling pretty good right now. 

I hope Jack meets the expectations of Port whatever they may be, and that he regains his self belief. 

He will not be a different player, just the same bloke in a different environment. 

He was expected to walk on water when our team was a raging torrent of mediocrity inside and out. 

The ferocious, sharp tongues of vocal so called Melbourne fans would never accept the club let him down,  as much as him failing to get the best out of himself. 

For every game other than against us, l wish him well. 

3 hours ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Good debate. I am not suggesting neither OMac or Wagner is a superstar and I am not saying Frost does not have great attributes and wont contribute during the season. What I am saying is our overall defence and general game plan is best served by OMac and Wagner. My view is Wagner is no where near the dud based on exposed form that people make out and Frost is nowhere near the power forward taming brute with great rebound ability that others make him out to be. I suspect back end of year if we are at decent strength neither is in our starting 22 but we certainly look more balanced over the JLT with Wagner/Omac than on Frosts exposed limited form.

Fair call big red fire.

The beauty of a forum is to permit diversity of opinion to flourish (and in my case unspent emotion to be released).

I don't mind admitting I believe this game may be more challenging than many think.

I am thankful I don't pick the team, but by the same token, I would have picked differently.

Tomorrow all we'll know more about where this young side is at.

30 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

Frost can’t set up play and he doesn’t have the skill set to do it 

How about stopping a player capable of kicking many goals on a younger lighter opponent?

For posters to assume we can just dictate the game, at our pleasure with forward "set ups" and Geelong to just watch without reaction, is inane. 

Don't think for a minute the Cats have not sized up their strengths and weaknesses AND ours. Strangely, they may think they can outmuscle us in their forward line and will be trying to exploit that. 

There are 2 teams on the ground, not one. 

1 hour ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Assuming Brayshaw with teeth and since he didn't train parts of week would make sense. You could also consider he was poor in JLT 1 and good in JLT 2. Does being half good get you in our team these days?

Maynard over Tyson I think is more about providing us an option to play a defensive role on Selwood or GAJ if necessary without Viney. The only other option is Vince but you need multiple plans. A lot on here have questioned the quality of Tyson for a few years so you need to also expect that these decisions will occur as we get better. He is also one of our only mid options that really has no flexibility of role. 

Wagner is clearly the new whipping boy with Frost the player seen as what we want him to be not the player he performs as.  Wagner provides a lot more flexibility, allows us to free up Hibberd and Hunt to attack as well as the ability for Vince or Lewis through the middle and is much better in execution than given credit. He may not be the best player but his role in the team gives us a more flexible 22. For where Frost is at go back and watch how our backline functioned when OMac went off and Frost came on in the JLT. 

Expect to see strong debate like this every week as people adjust hopefully to the decisions a quality team with quality depth need to make at match committee and the increased expectations to stay in the team. 

Final note. Great to see finally no one querying Melksham's inclusion and growing importance to the team. For those that question if the selectors know what they are doing go and visit some early threads from last year. 

I did my lid to you big red. 

You have indeed mastered the art of self serving narrative. 

Your commentary on Wagner is at the very least arguable. 

I prefer to challenge the inflammatory assessment of Frost superbly summarised under the catch all and shut up statement "watch how the backline functioned when O Mac was off and Frost came on". 

I hope you watched the JLT replay, sir to wit any impartial observer would have noted in the period O Mac was on, the ball barely went into our defence.

Both on the field and the scoreboard we were dominating and centre clearances went all our way. 

Now sir,  contrast that with the 3rd quarter where indeed you were correct in that O Mac was off the ground. St Kilda dominated clearances and fired both precise and chaos balls incessantly into their forward line. Our whole backline was under the pump becuase we had lost control at the mid field. 

Are you suggesting sir, that St Kilda's 6 goal 3rd qtr dominance be attributed to the absence of O Mac? The player who conceded 2 poor frees 1 of which that led to 1 of the Saints early goals.  Is Frost now supposedly single handedly,  responsible for the entire defence. 

I respectfully suggest you take the patch off your bad eye and try watching the game from a wider perspective. 

Neither of these players will be our panacea but to excuse the accountable lapses of one to pass off responsibility to the other smacks of narrowed vision. 

We will miss a big, strong, fast and courageous body against the Cats. That is all. 

In my view the MFC would have been better served with both O Mac and Frost rather than O Mac and Wags. Nothing more. 

I hope the 22 we have selected perform to their best. If that be good enough we will all enjoy the game. If not, we can decide whether the fame was lost on Sunday the  25th or Friday the 23rd.

No doubt there will be much boisterous discussion, either way. 

3 minutes ago, Redleg said:

That is my concern, though predicted wind and rain could change it. Frost not only has the body to compete with Hawkins,  but  is so much faster than him, he could run off him and set up play. While I am an Oscar fan, I don't think he can do that. 

Agree 100% Redleg. 

Frosty's big,  fast and mature body in defence to play on a big mature forward seemed to be a no brainer. 

33 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

Tomorrow at the MCG at 3.20!

Casey MCG 3.20.

Absolutely not as stupid as it sounds, Chook. 

It's great to have the footy back. I didn't realise how much l missed this real time wit before a real time game. 

1 hour ago, jako13 said:

in J Wagner.... it appears Demonland has settled on its new whipping boy in the absence of JW.

must be a JW initials thing... while there's a JW on the list the ghosts of Watts past will remain.....

poor Vargner.... 

 

Sorry Jako, l suspect this JW won't be on the park often enough to gain the mantle if whipping boy. 

 I like Josh, but he was a mature age recruit taken as a depth player. That is probably what he is. A good 25th or 26th player to have on a list. 

Like all AFL listed players, he brings some genuine talent. Unfortunately his disposal skills very often let him down. 

I wish him well on Sunday, l hope he kills them. I hope we kill them. But not betting on it. 

A true whipping boy cops crap for everything they do whether it be good or bad. Josh will never come close to the previous JW. 

2 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

So because he is on big money, he should be able to play every role in a team.

May as well take Gawns spot then 

We are supposed to have another "tall" in the backline. 

Interesting how he seems to miracously side steps any form of objective scrutiny. Lever now covering his back and copping flak for doing it as well. 

Hawkins will kick 4.4 and one or two out on the full. Lucky for the unnamed backman Tom can't kick. 

3 minutes ago, layzie said:

Why is Wagner in? His selection makes about as much sense as nothing.

Goody wants to find out whether we have the depth we think we have, or not. 

If you can train the house down in summer, you get a gig in autumn. All turnovers under pressure are just part of development. 

11 minutes ago, Buffalo said:

For what it's worth, these are Wagner's stats compared to Neville Jetta's for last year: (Not a whole lot of difference, to be honest - I thought he was a lot worse...)

Stats for Season     2017
Wagner                                                              Jetta
9         Games                                                     22
7.0      Kicks Per Game                                     6.9
8.9      Handballs Per Game                             7.5
15.9    Disposals Per Game                           14.3
2.3      Marks Per Game                                  4.3
2.8     Tackles Per Game                                3.1
1.1     Inside 50s Per Game                           0.3
0.4     Frees For Per Game                             0.9
0.3     Frees Against Per Game                    0.5
5.7     Contested Poss's Per Game              5.0
10.3     Uncontested Poss's Per Game       9.2
11.8     Effective Disposals Per Game       12.6
74.2%     Disposal Efficiency% Per Game   88.1%
2.0     Clangers Per Game                             1.4
0.3     Contested Marks Per Game              0.4
0.9     Rebound 50s Per Game                     1.7
2.2     One Percenters Per Game                 4.0
144.4     Metres Gained Per Game             121.6
2.7     Turnovers Per Game                          1.2
3.8     Intercepts Per Game                          5.9
0.6     Tackles Inside 50 Per Game             0.1
57.8     AFL Fantasy Score Per Game        60.9
57.3     Supercoach Score Per Game         67.7

And after all those useless stats who out the 2 would you prefer to be in the backline? 

To be honest. I felt better about our chances before the final selections than after. 

Goody will be hailed as either a genius or a goose by 6.30 Sunday afternoon. 

5 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I think the blueprint is pretty obvious. Goody clearly loves a a dynamic and versatile team and Wagner's inclusion is evidence of that.

Wagner allows us to play all of Hunt, Jones, Vince and Lewis in a variety of roles which will hopefully work in our favour. Tyson cannot play any position other than inside mid and his inclusion restricts Goody's creativity. 

Maynard is the interesting one for me, because similarly to Tyson I see him being fairly one-dimensional. But maybe Goody and co have some ideas of roles come game day.

All-in-all it's a fairly strong side all over the ground, unlike Geelong's 22.

Gotta love that positive outlook Steve the man! I don't quite see it as one sided a contest through my aging eyes.  

We have some very soft spots which will be on full display on Sunday. 

Hope your confidence in the "brains trust" is more in their brains than your trust. 

Outcome is too close to call for me. 

2 minutes ago, JAG007 said:

I wonder if Goody is telling Tyson something ( maybe ring leader against Commando camp)?

Would be bloody childish response if you were even close to the mark JAG! 

We are supposed to pick players who can help us win games. 

Wags must certainly be impressing someone down there. 

Not in my best 25 or a particularly powerful fast or skilful defender. I will trust the club that see him every day, more than l trust myself. 

We'll soon all be able to assess his on field performance. I really really hope he has a strong game, as do the other 21 players. 

As for Dom and Gus, what would any supporter know? 

I feel somewhat misled on both Jack and Tom by the club's public statements prior to this week. 

"Cloak and dagger"  has never been a strength of our player management and it appears not much has changed in 2018. 

Reading the preferences of posters, I think we may end up with too many forwards on the interchange if we entertain Milkshake (a certainty) Bugg or Mitch then Tyson and Gus. 

We are very lightweight in the backline and l am certain Tom H is licking his lips with the selected side. 

Frosty is a must play to add some strength and speed down there if it all goes pear shaped. 

Mitch may be the unlucky one. 

As a door closes, a window opens.

You are one of many in the game's history who can deservedly claim that hard work, dedication and patience pays off.  Although your pathway into AFL has been unconventional, you now stand on equal footing with every other player. 

Good luck Bayley

Injuries to key players are NEVER ever wanted. 

However when they are unavoidable, they create opportunities for others. Look at Hogan last year whose savagely poor luck, uncovered T Mac as a star forward! 

We have the chance to pick 22 players the same as our opposition. The mix will now have changed, but the objective remains the same. 

Who will grasp their opportunity in 2018? Hopefully ANB or Bayley or Pedo or someone else. It is there for the taking. 

MFCSS alive and well for 2018.

I hate seeing injuries to key players as much as anyone else but our challenge now is to get on with the task of putting 22 players on the field and getting the job done.  

Why must things that are not broken be fixed my the modern day's sense of superiority?

The AFL should leave well enough alone, lest the fans turn on them en masse, and resent their intervention.

2 hours ago, praha said:

I am certain I read an analysis that showed that, statistically, we were far, far worse between 2008-2016 than we were throughout the 70s.

Without GWS, and if you include having finished equal last on wins with the Saints in 2014, we would have "won" 4 wooden spoons over a 9 year period.

I recall at least 3 or maybe 4 years in the 70s when we won 4 games or less out of 22 in a comp of 12 teams. They were also different times where there was no TV coverage of lowly clubs, just to add to the humiliation. 

Losing repeatedly twice a year to some pretty ordinary mid tier teams felt far more debilitating than being one of 2 or 3 clubs out of 18 that has struggled. 

Naturally l agree that both periods were dark years for the club. I suppose the recency effect makes the more current experience more memorable. 

Also Unlike today, you got no draft pick "rewards" by finishing last. You simply finished last. 

3 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

Pretty amazing statistic isnt it........the 70s was bad.

In just about every respect, other than being an MFC supporter, l loved the silly 70s.

Life was so much simpler and honest then, without computers and digital technology and BS in your face every blinking minute. 

Skyhooks playing on the Yarra, V8s everywhere, flares and a great pub scene for new bands, amongst other things.

Bloody Melbourne, l hated Saturday afternoons at the G. No wonder l lost so many brain cells on Saturday nights. 

I want no miracle recoveries....... Please!

I for one am pleased to hear a decision has finally been made on this ongoing "will he, won't he" saga.

It takes the heat out of the whole issue and I suspect, a substantial burden off young Jack's back. He can now forget the calendar and do whatever it is he needs to do to get himself right. We all know he wants to be out there, but more level heads are required for him to be able to stay out there.

Good call in my view.

3rd quarter started with party tricks and fancy stuff from the Dees and basic long kicking footy from the Saints. 

By the time we woke up, we couldn't stop them. 

It's an old habit we just can't break.