Curry & Beer

OK so what pick would Watts have gone at if we didn't take him? What about Cale Morton? They went exactly where they were supposed to it had nothing to do with our selection process. That's a simple fact that I have mentioned at least 50 times over the years and not one of you blokes has ever even tried refuting it cos it is irrefutable. You can't blame our recruitment it is another failure of logic.

your argument has problems: We have failed to produce a genuine league elite player in 7 years. There are a few notable 'nearly' types in Clark, Jones, Frawley and Garland.. that's it There are 6 of the 44 from 2007 left, meaning 38 changes, plus 5 or 10 others that came and went in between (Maric, Cheney, Bennell etc) How is it possible we recruited about 45 players over 6 drafts and ALL of them just underperformed? It makes no sense at all The only logical conclusion is that the club has been at fault in its development of these players You don't just get unlucky 45 times in a row

not speculating on draft/trade McDONALD CHIP TERLICH GRIMES GARLO WATTS TRENNERS VINEY BLEASE HOWE DAWES DUNN FITZY CLARK HOGAN JAMAR SYLVIA N.JONES M.JONES McKENZIE TOUMPAS KENT E: GAWN CLISBY EVANS TAPSCOTT JETTA STRAUSS BAIL MAGNER NICHOLSON

tricky one over to you Roosy

probably because he will go to whoever is paying the most like every player in the comp does

agreed the days of any player having some sort of automatic loyalty to the jumper ahead of their own personal interests are long, long gone and right up until the day before Roos signed up we were/are an absolute basket case of a club that any player would have to strongly consider leaving. We are still that, but Roos is a chance of changing it.

Jordie McKenzie's appearance is dubious

I can't believe so many of you have apparently learned nothing from history. Remember mid season 2009 - the discussion here was centred on the importance of winning as few as possible so we could 1+2. Our knockers said we were breeding a loser's culture which would come back to haunt us - guess what, those knockers were DEAD RIGHT. So much of this game is about having the heart to be better than the other mob, the culture of the place is completely heartless and has been since Daniher left. By getting another PP all we do is keep ourselves on the same rubbish track we are on now, we need to tell the players that they are NOT a pack of pitiful losers. I bet you Jack Viney would not want a bar of a PP if it were up to him, it is nothing but a badge of shame.

pft they will only give it to us harder because we had to be propped up so much to get any success why can't you understand there are degrees of things.. a priority pick+pick 2 is not the same as pick 2. By your logic there is no difference between pick 2 and getting the entire first round. silly.

can you imagine if Roos just came out said that we won't be pursuing draft assistance as we want to work hard to improve on field and earn back some respect? the absolute disdain and pity that we are looked upon with would have a big chunk taken out of it, and I'll bet you the playing group would walk a little taller for it

No. They are obviously different. One is just the logical procedural outcome after a season of footy and the other is a big sign saying LOSERS... and for us in particular, with our history of ineptitude and ridicule you can go ahead and double the size of the sign and spell out the word in neon lights.

say no to priority picks the time for embarassment and shame is over

still have my doubts on him, just watching r22 now, early in the third Howe kicked it to him on the lead, kick was shanked meaning a constested ball contest. He got first hands on it in heavey traffic, but as soon as he did his head shot up to see the would-be tackler, promptly flinched and the ball slipped out of hands, losing possession. He is not fumbly at all, it was purely the pressure and anticipation of getting hit. Somebody like Hurley would not have looked at anyone, just made sure he took possession cleanly and smashed/baulked his way through the tacklers to dish it off. It was one of those situations where the tacklers were sort of flat-footed and a big man should be able to get enough freedom to at least get his hands free to dispose. Such a tiny difference in conduct but such a massive difference in the result. There are bigger more obvious things like this that he does, but there are also many smaller ones like this that go unnoticed/unmentioned.

as if, Martin wasn't even considered top pick at the same stage and O'Meara just like every no.1 before him.. this is different,, KPP who has shown heaps at VFL as a 17 year old, pretty much unprecedented

man.. Hoges is 18 and hasn't played a game and is dead set the biggest asset at the club.. hard to think of anyone ever who has had so much of a buzz at his stage cannot wait until season 2014

I don't get this argument Obviously the 'way better' list you refer to was not considered 'way better' before this season. That is the fundamental logic behind their rapid improvement. They had a new coach/gameplan and individual improvement improve their performance. That is EXACTLY why people are referencing them, because they are proof of how a steaming pile can turn into something good very quickly if the right things are in place. If they are 'way better' then why are there last 5 seasons before this finishes of: 13th, 10th, 10th, 16th and 14th I'm not saying we will do likewise but your critique of others makes zero sense

Nothing outrageous about it, but I predict the individual and group performance will improve around the ground, creating entries with more frequency and greater quality for a forward line fetauring Watts, Howe, Hogan, Dawes, Fitzy and Clark to give us one of the best inside-50-to-goal ratios in the comp, with about 180 goals between them for the year.

Anything could happen next year. The major issues: 1. The effect of Roos and his coaching panel in their ability to instill a functional game plan, improve skills and bring some heart to the group. 2. INS and OUTS from the list. 3. Injuries. We spent most of this year missing various combinations of Frawley, Dawes, Clark and Jamar. These are big outs (literally). It is certain that this cost us and made us look worse than we were. 4. Although we still put in a few howlers, and a few awful quarters, there was a significant improvement in much of the 2nd half of the year under Craig, in which we were able to match it with decent sides for the majority of matches. 5. We still have a very young list relatively speaking, with expected improvement from a number of high potential players, including Hogan. Others such as FITZY, Watts, Trengove, Blease, Kent, Tapscott, Evans, Strauss, McDonald, Howe, Toumpas, Viney and Grimes clearly are all capable of lifting their output at least one notch in 2014. Having said all that, 9 wins only got you to 13th place in 2013, which was 7 more than we got. I can't imagine any scenario we could do any better than that.

you realise that players don't just turn into the guy that's coaching them.. right?

I won't be devastated if he goes, how much is he going to contribute from here on anyway

happy with this kid also. Has the speed, guts, brains and skill to one day become the real deal. I like the fact he tends to make an impact without necessarily getting much of the pill. Could be a real weapon down the track.

we've made strides to undo the mistake that was 2012/2013 it was a mistake that Moloney left us we need big-bodied senior midfielders this is a bloke who'd die for the jumper undo the mistake and bring him back

i'll only get really excited if and when we get to the point we are knocking off some big teams a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step mind you getting Roos is worth a few hundred steps!

true.. but when you have one bloke in the top 100 and he is at 51 that's a massive concern. The pies have 3 in the top 8 and they're not even real contenders.

Good on you GNF for keeping us posted all this time, and for being bang on the money! Thanks heaps mate