Adam The God

You're easily pleased. Half the 16 team competition play Finals every year and it doesn't make them "good teams". We were just making up the numbers in those years.

We were on top with only a few rounds to go. In '04 (or was it '05?) particularly, there was no stand out team, so that was probably our best crack at a premiership since the 80s. If memory serves me correctly we were 14-5 after Round 19, but unfortunately faded in the last few games, just as we did the following year. You're not going to sway me, we were certainly one of the 4 top teams for the majority of that season.

Thought he was quite positive last night on AFL Teams. Made a point of saying that the demons' improvement was impressive and that Bailey was doing a very good job, as did the other panellists.

Maybe Brian's been reading the Demonland forums?

And people saying leaving Bennell out is a sign we are tanking, get real.

I was joking...

No kidding. Get out of here.

Who was stating the alternative view to that and what relevance is Jolly to the conversation about our rucks now?

Remincising.

To be honest, you would have to wonder why? Jamar gave more in half a season than White did all last year. White was finished and we held onto him for too long.

I won't even bother arguing that one.

Johnno would still be a jack of no trades in a good team and would not have survived as long. As frustrating as Jamar is, 2004 and 2005 were his first two seasons of AFL. And from my recollection, MFC finished 8th both years. Hardly good teams.

If I remember correctly, we were sitting first by Round 15 and Round 18 or 19 in both respective seasons. Any team that does that is a good team in my book.

I disagree.

For a man of his size, he's an exceptional kick. Lovely booming left foot with a sound technique and the ability to kick 55m. We've seen this in the past at Sandy (in a premiership side), and even now, occasionally you see it in his field kicking. He's a lovely short to middle-distance pass of the ball too. The reason i think he stuffs a few of his kicks up is he often goes for passes or options that are rather ambitious. Foot skills aren't his problem at all, although i think decision making is something he could improve.

In regards to set shots, it's all confidence. He's a lot more capable in front of goals than he's shown in his career thus far.

Yeah, I'd agree with your assessment entirely, Doggo. He's got beautiful blance for a big man.

I wouldn't think Bennell would be dropped, probably has been rested

I would have thought it's a bizarre time to rest him though. Perhaps, Bails think he'll win the game for us this week.

For arguments sake, kicking can be linked so heavily with confidence though. Hence, our disposal inefficiency over the past two seasons. I'm not convinced he'll miss as often, if he too becomes part of a stronger team, that is flying. I suppose it's a bit like the Sylvia situation. Johno has such raw athleticism, combining that with height, he just seems like he has all the potential in the world. Stick him in a good team and you never know. Stick Jamar in a good team...well he was in one, in '04 and '05...he was just damn right frustrating.

I probably shouldn't comment on this, as I've not read up on it and therefore I'm not particularly well-informed, but don't the GC have the right to come in and attempt to sign any un-contracted players they want? So ie Jack Watts, Same Blease, these types, who are only on two year contracts. I'm just thinking of Barrassi to Carlton. Obviously different situation, but it ruined our plans then and something quite similar could happen again with Watts et al, could it not?

Agree.

Don't know where this belief has come from other than being conjured up by our desperate need for a key forward.

Paul Johnson is not a forward.

I vividly remember him playing up forward against the Pies (even full forward from the goal square) in '07 and he could have had 5 by half time. Just his kicking let him down that day. I think that's where I might have got it from. He also leads very well on occasion. Mind you, he doesn't finish a lot of his opportunities.

that is actually very true!

yeh but if we hadnt of won that game against carlton we could have had watts & nat, and then we could have had scully and butcher... we would be set for a premiership!!

We would have picked up Cruiser that year if we'd lost to Carlton, so the Nat probably wouldn't be as relevant. Furthermore, we could've had a bloke by the name of Chris Judd also.

Still, if we get Butcher and Scully, we'll be set for a premiership anyway.

In respect of Jolly there was not a choice between Jamar and Jolly. We traded Jolly because he cracked the sads and wanted to leave because he could not get nor justify game time against the reigning AA ruckman at the time Jeff White. Had we not traded Jolly when we did for a first round pick, he would have worked through the PSD the following year and we would have got nothing.

I understand there wasn't a choice between he and Jamar. My point was, however that Jolly is and always has been the far superior player out of the two. To be honest, I would have kept White over Jamar...

But don't you think a better way to show the AFL is to have as many supporters as possible at the ground? Not showing up just confirms the AFL's view of us.

Exactly! Ten points.

I'll go where ever it is. Not turning up just because it's not at the MCG is stereotypical fair weather supporting and it's why some of us who go week in, week out get labelled fair weather supporters. Who gives a [censored] where the game is. Get out there and support them. I'd rather play at the 'G, of course, but suck it in.

Yep, it is his problem. If he'd got his kicking right earlier in the season he might have already had 3 bags of goals. As for the Casey match, he might have almost kicked 9. If he fixes this, then he might still be a player.

I still think he should do the same with Newton. Give him a solid period to prove himself or bury himself. If after say 4-6 weeks he doesn't cement his place then drop him forever but give him enough games to decide his future.

Yeah, you're right about Newton. If he's good enough he'll rectify his kicking problem, if not, he'll do as you say and dig his own grave. Afterall, Newton only became a semi regular contender in 2007 and it's only 2009. This is the year he has to prove himself, but I'd say give him the rest of the season. Stick him upward, let Watts play up the ground and see what he's got.

Truth is that none of them are good enough and our rucks are unresolved. FWIW, PJ has played only one serviceable game this year and has not IMO addressed concerns about his game style. Its amazing how the blow torch moves to Jamar. I am no fan of Jamar and know he has limitations. But I reckon one good match and the blowtorch will be back on the others.

What if Jamar gets back to AFL and lo and behold rucks well for the rest of the season.

The extent of Meesen's foot injury raises questions about him which may only be settled closter to year end.

Oh, I agree on PJ. He is one of my favourites, because has done the courageous things in the past (I'd point to the shoulder injury he received on the wing against Sydney a few years back). However, this season he's been dreadful and has struggled to find form. The Eagles game was probably his best game so far, this year. He has great potential, as a second ruck and up forward (the Collingwood game in '07 is an example of what he could do up forward--obviously needs to fix up his kicking for goal though). Persist with PJ, but I still can't believe we traded Jolly and not Jamar.

Welching a situation is far different to not impacting a physical presence. Green never welched a contest and certainly was not a frontrunner.

To be honest, I'd say a lot of our guys were front runners. Green wasn''t the only one. I'd stick Brucey in this category at times, as well.

As was Brad Green in his early days. This trait can be learnt and with the size he now has he will hopefully add it to his game. He's young and I haven't written him off just yet.

It's a good point this. Greeny was a little soft in his early days, but now he's one of our most ferocious tacklers and would have no hesitation backing into a pack.

I would not turn your back on the draft at this point. I think there is a bit of dust to settle there.

I agree. Although, not quite the same, the media were talking Daniel Rich up all year and he ended up going at 7 (was it?). A lot can change over the course of 15 or so weeks.

One of Meesen Jamar or Johnson will go. None are good enough to justify an AFL spot as a ruckman. Had Meesen not broken down then IMO PJ was in the gun. And his performance in Perth alone is not enough to save him. If the injury to Meesen is that bad then MFC should pay him out. PJ/Jamar survives. We have Jamar, Spencer, Meesen on the injury list and you cant see the logic of having four ruckman on the list. Brilliant. Some clubs have up to six rucks on the list. While there is a market for established rucks there isnt for rucks that are bog ordinary and have injury concerns.

Surely, Jamar is the one that has to go? Meesen has already shown more than Jamar has in his entire career. Jamar's had his time and hasn't been good enough. Pity we don't still have Jolly.

even if he is not in the best 22 next year, keeping him = depth.

Agreed. Depth is important here. With Wheels coming to the end of his career, Bartram and Dunn are our only two taggers at the moment. We need at least two or three and Dunn, although not a stand out, is versatile.

It would be a brave and I believe foolish decision to trade Sylvia. He's worth more to us than what we'd receive in return.

And that's the problem we're faced with. He is such a high draft pick, you may as well stick with him. Look you're probably right Hannabal and I have thought along similar lines myself, but to me, he should be able to play in any team at any given time. That's what a good player is. Still your point has merit that outweighs my argument.

Indeed.

Also noticed posters are not as hard on him in the delistings thread, as they were a few weeks back. But wait, that could all change......."one week at a time" is often used in so many ways in football. Colin Sylvia knockers are no exception to this cliche'. Hence his inconsistency.

The thing about Sylvia is he'd easily be our most frustrating player. If I've ever improved my outlook towards him it has been more in hope than anything else. He's got a bit of talent somewhere, he just doesn't do the basics well. That said, Bails is slowly turned that mentality around (seemingly). Please, finally show us some consistency, Colin.

As for Morton ? I can't believe the stick he cops here and elsewhere. With Watts, he's the most important player on the list. It is an under appreciated skill to be able to pick up possessions at will in the AFL. And having watched Melbourne for a long time I'm acutely aware of this. Morton will fill into his 193 cm frame. He will gain more and more confidence over preseasons and he will become an elite AFL footballer. With confidence his decision making will improve. And as his decision making and confidence improves so too will his disposal, which isn't nearly as bad as made out. Running into goal from 60 metres I'd back him every time, so don't tell me he can't kick. Him missing targets from 25-30 metres happens due to pressure and his youth. The more he feels he belongs at AFL level and the more he trusts his body the less he'll turn the ball over.

I'm thankful to have a player of Morton's talent on the list, whilst some prefer to find flaws in his game. He can run all day, is far from slow, and at 193 cms will become a Chad Cornes type utility at either end of the ground. How do opposition clubs matchup on, or stop, a 25 year old Cale Morton ? He's a third of the way into his second year, is still a teenager, and a stick figure. How many of his draft contemporaries playing in the midfield are 193 cms ? Firstly, most don't have his dangerous upside and secondly, they should be more advanced because they're closer to their physical maturity. But I don't see the same gap in output. We have a gem on our hands even though some are yet to realise it. And despite their doubts, I firmly believe that he will be elite.

And no, he's not above scrutiny, no AFL player is, but the expectations of many are unrealistic and show little understanding.

I barely know anyone who knocks him. Anyone that does, you're right, lacks understanding. He's only a young kid, he's going to make mistakes. He's going to be a ripper.

Might just have been finals.

Pity, the ABC don't do the Sunday games, as I'm sure they once did.