JACKATTACK

JCB please refer to the above 655 posts for a complete run down on the keeper league.

I would think that leading into the draft coaches will nominate their keepers via a PM to me, say 2 weeks before the draft. Once everyone has submitted their keeper choices I will make them public.

You don't have to. Just a make a judgement call on whther you would like the extra pick at the end of the draft or not.

I tend to agree with 1991. Sucks to be Dappa: Scott selwood: 1990, Redden 1990

So the 2 + 2 young players seems to be gaining traction with already 6 votes if you count RR's change of vote. And 7 if you count Dappas on count back. If it gets up, the question then is what should be the cutoff date for players? For simplicity I think it should be the year of their birth be the cutoff. It makes it much easier to just look at their DOB to see if they qualify. ie. Todd Banfield's Birthday is 28/06/1990 so his YOB is 1990 and therefore he would just miss out if we took only YOB 1991 players. And after some quick analysis, I have decided its probably either 1990 and 1991 YOB being the cutoff. I'm interested in your thoughts: So here is the full list of players currently listed with a year of birth >1990. I have bolded the 1990 ones to give you an idea about who would be in if we allowed YOB1990 players to be 'Rookie Keepers' our out if we took only 1991. Couldn't figure out how to do the table thing so I posted it on the League page under league notes. You can also just check click on a players name on the site and it will show you the player profile with DOB.

The poll is on the ultimate footy site.

Unlocked now. Forgot about that.

Enough out of the 2 of you. Trust in the results of the poll and then we can all move on.

Well you just can't keep everyone happy.

Okey doke, after the primaries we'll re-assess, clear up the details for the two favored ones and then vote again to finalize it.

!!!!ATTENTION!!!! I have created a poll on the ultimate footy league page. There are 6 options: they are. 4 keepers, as it was at the start of the year. Demonland 7's solution: 2 keepers + 2 keepers ranked outside the top 100. The ranking would be defined leading into next season's draft. Jackattack solution: 2 keepers + 2 young keepers, Young keepers probably 22 or younger. But I'm open to tweaking the age. Deevoted solution: 2 open keepers + the option of 2 more for some clubs based on ladder position. I can't explain it better than Deevoted so just read his post. 2 open keepers only No keepers Once I have a better feel of everyone's opinion I'll make a final decision but I retain the right to make the final choice, but in all likelihood that will be the most popular one. Let's get this sorted and settle the issue now. If you're not sure what we're talking about take the week off and read the last 500 or so posts on the issue, I think if nothing else we have covered all possible issues on the matter. One thing I will say is that once done it's done for the year, no further changes. Happy voting.

Eugene couldn't handle the pressure. It's a very serious business.

I don't want to kill off a good idea with the bureaucracy of more onerous trading rules. Let's just be positive about it, get excited about the trading scenarios it introduces and not get bogged down in the heavy detail of it. Ultimately if you believe a proposed trade is a bit iffy then veto it and if enough people agree with you it will be cancelled. Democracy at work. Personally I won't vote down what I believe to be a mutually beneficial trade, even if that means one team appears to be 'raising the white flag'. But I guess I could understand if you do. Now tanking for priority picks is a separate issue, hard to police, but i'll engineer a system that won't reward last while balanacing the perceived need to give clubs a leg up if required. I'll throw up the poll tonight re keeper format.

I feel a poll coming on.

The priority pick thing is a tricky one, if done Incorrectly it could absolutely create a problem of tanking. But it won't be a straight priority either. Probably more along the lines of a mini draft for all the bottom 8/6. With a lottery system to decide who gets first pick. I'm being deliberately cagey about it because I don't want to lock it in just yet. I completely understand your concerns, I just hope you can see the positives of the system without focusing on the negatives too much.

He, like me is uncompetitive anyway. And it's not tanking, it's trading short term success for the long term, he becomes less competitive as a result. But it isn't the deliberate losing of games For the sake of losing games as is the case with tanking.

Naturally you have to value older players lower. This year's draft tended to leave older players later for that exact reason. Leuey will be fine mate, I have in another league (a keeper league) and I still rate him as one of the best ruckmen for the next few years. As for injuries, well they are just plain crap. More so in a normal league though. Murphy has no value in a normal league. But because of the keeper league he retains his value, or at least most of it.

It's the same problem that exists in all fantasy leagues, and I have been in many. Teams lose interest and become easy beats. Some teams are lucky to get those teams later in the season. Easy beats just become easier beats. I think if you really go through the draw you would see that it makes little difference to the overall ladder, Then the finals is only between genuine teams and the best team will win.

An expansion on the 2 keepers + 2 >100 idea. What about instead of rankings you have the choice of keeping 2 keepers, + 2 players aged 21 or under (or some other date). After all that is what speculating on players is about, getting on board with a young player at the start of their career. Another one to add to the poll I guess. I'll sort it out tomorrow, for now I need to dedicate my time to something other than demonland Ufooty.

I think the perceived "white flag" problem of keeper leagues is a little over stated. The reality is, if you are a serious chance of competing in the pointy end of the season this year then you'll smash any of me, JLH and RR. And we're really the only ones who are in serious discussions about keeper trading. The net result is 0. Tanking is a separate issue to do more with the possibility of priority picks. There is no doubt, the draft is less interesting without the keeper league, but that is the only real negative I can see. I don't pay that it is unfair, if a keeper league is unfair then basically every sporting code in the world is unfair. Would the AFL be better if at the start of every year every player re-entered the draft and teams just changed? A keeper league adds interest for every team, not just the top 8-10. It adds intrigue on the trading block, gives you an opportunity to develop a long term relationship with your players. I love the idea I have Fyfe forever, unless I trade him, and that i took a gamble on him by taking him in the first round. i think it's great that a serious injury to your best player doesn't end your season because they hold value as a keeper for next year. I have been thinking of a way to introduce draft pick trading (maybe only in the off season). The mind boggles at the potential deals that can be struck, the relationships that can develop between demonlanders in the tos and fros of a heated trading debate. It's exciting. Get excited, get involved, think long term and be positive about it. We're here to have fun, so let's have fun. I have an idea.

So you're going to try and wreck it for everyone else on the way out? For what enjoyment you did get out the league I ask that you not take that path, if not for me then for the other 16 coaches. Goodbye RR, I wish you well in the future and I hope your new league is everything you hope it will be. As for the rest of the league I hope it can return to business as usual. If there is enough support out there i'd support a drop down to 2 keepers, I'll wait to hear from others in case they would like their opinion heard. I also like the >100 idea for 2 keepers. I just need to flesh out the details. I think as well it might be best if I hand over administration of the league to someone else at the end of the year. 2 years is enough time for 1 person and a new take on things might be the best way to keep this thing going. There were a few offers at the start of the year, let me know if you're keen. It needs a someone who is prepared to champion it.

The system is fair and always has been, i can't explain it to you any more clearly than the 30 odd posts over the year i have put up. The way i see it, you're just annoyed that you drafted poorly and now want a rule change to get you up to speed. Make your decision, are you in or out? After you've decided I'll consider a revision to the rules.

I'm prepared to make all sorts of changes to the rules, but I will never be involved in a relegation system.

The point is not moot, you just have to accept that you drafted poorly and this has affected your list. It's up to you to make a judgement call as to whether you will enjoy next year and beyond, but I genuinely think you are underestimating your opportunity to regain ground. The Priority pick system will beaimed at evening the competition out as best I can. And if I can get my head around introducing a trading system that includes future draft picks then there is any measure of possible trade combinations that if cleverly implemented will benefit you the most. Draft for all time? It's 4 players not 16. And there are not haves and have nots. Everyone had the same set of rules. Why shouldn't someone be rewarded for drafting themselves into a good long term position? If you really think about it even in the non-keeper system, the second the draft is completed there are haves and have nots. Some people just have a better draft, and some have not so good. The only difference being that it is longer term. Your threat of leaving will not factor in my decision to change or not change the rules. Maybe it was just a poor choice of words, but I think this is a pretty weak statement. I tend to agree, not impossible though.

Fantasy footy needs more like you Deevoted. And I do always log in and try and keep my team up to date, but there are plenty who don't. Love all the ideas, there is a lot of them and it has given me a lot to think about it. I had no idea there was so much passion out there, I guess that's a good thing. I should clarify my position on rule changes. I'm not dead against it, my problem is that some people have been working to a strategy expecting certain set of rules and to change that would put them out in some way. But if there is significant enough support for a change then I won't stand in the way. Keep the comments coming, more input from coaches the better. PM me if you would prefer it be private. There have been a few ideas I'll list them here for a snapshot of the discussions. If you like or don't like a certain idea then make yourself known. Have no keepers Reduce to 2 keepers Have 2 top level keepers and 2 >100 ranked players as keepers Have a staged keeper structure where you keep more keepers if your team is not as good. Have a waiver type system where remaining keepers can be selected and lower ranked teams get their picks ahead of higher ranked teams. (explained better above) Off season trading ( I need to think about this one, as it has a few techincal things I might need to consider ie. draft pick trading?) Just so we're clear I won't guarantee I will make changes, 3-4 vocal demonlanders might seem like a lot of support, but there are 18 coahces and I have to consider everyone's point of view. We're on to a good thing here, this can be a truly great long term thing if everyone buys into it. I know there will be attrition over the years, but I expect to be participating in this comp for years to come with pretty much the same group of demonlanders.