Nasher

So when does Martin rest? He'd be doing more work than any other player on the field with that kind of role. You can't "rest" in defence in the same way you can rest in the forward line.

Frees up Frawley to do what? Frawley does fine at being an attacking option and a checking defender at the same time. I don't think he'd "attack more" if he had a lesser opponent. If Sellar makes a better forward than Martin, then Sellar should be the ruckman/forward (assuming he's competent in the ruck), and Martin should be out of the side. Sellar played as a ruck/forward. I didn't see anyone mentioning how Martin was just a basketballer and not a footballer through his purple patch last year when Jamar was out. I know he's not playing well at the moment, but how short are our memories? He's not without hope of redemption like you and others imply.

Hyperbole at its best, wyl. Our situation both on and off the field doesn't compare to the 90s Lions. If I remember correctly, they had less than 5000 members in their later years, and were completely unable to retain their talent. Scully might've walked out the door for the coin, but Mitch Clark walked in - that would never have happened at Fitzroy.I'll also remind you of Carlton's run through the 00s: 2002: 3 wins 2003: 4 wins 2004: 10 wins 2005: 4 wins 2006: 3 wins 2007: 4 wins An average of 4.6 wins over 6 seasons. (How good was this, btw? I loved seeing them down there.) We'd have to win zero this year to equal their average through that run - that isn't going to happen. So we're not even the worst team since Carlton 00s, let alone since Fitzroy. Their turnaround was also quick after that absolute horror run - they suddenly won 10 in 2008 and have been on the rise ever since.

Martin might not be doing that well as a forward, but what's the point of playing him in backline? He doesn't add anything back there that we need. He either needs to usurp Jamar as the number one ruck, or figure out how to be an effective forward. Otherwise there's no role for him in the side and it's bye-bye. I found it interesting that we went with Sellar as the second ruck instead of Martin yesterday. If we consider Sellar to be a ruckman-forward, then he and Martin are in direct competition with one another for a spot in the side. There isn't room in the side for both in that role.

It's not the couple of turnovers I remember, it's his failure at any sort of a second effort after a contest. Admittedly it's only one, but it's what sticks out in my head. Watch the replay if you get a chance (I'm presuming you were at the game) - can't remember when it happens (second quarter?) - Mick Malthouse gives him a serve over it.I don't care about a handful of turnovers - that happens, and he has friends there.

Yep, one of the few carrying the load at present. Wasn't a perfect game today by any stretch, but he worked very hard and was literally everywhere. Really loving his development at the moment.

Clark, Watts, Howe, Jones. Can't find another two worthy and can't be bothered ordering them properly.

Yes stu, it really is that ridiculous. Why would we deliberately humiliate the club by staging a 10 goal loss to bloody Richmond when there is nothing obvious at stake? Come on, think this through just a little bit.

I thought he'd been okay until "that" moment on the HFF. I detest the vitriol that gets said about Cale on here, but I will say that if that's his idea of a second effort, his stay in the senior team will be short.

Uhh, you realise this guy is essentially just a spotter, right? This is essentially an entry-level position in to the footy industry for those who don't have a passage in through playing. All the clubs have lots of guys on the payroll like this, both full time and part time, including ours. There's a guy who used to be a regular on Demonland that made his way in to the footy industry this way. The "tried and proven" candidates all have better jobs. Asking for Pelchen or "the Geelong guy" to fill this role would be like asking for George Calombaris to apply for the role of kitchen hand.

As penance, you must change your username to Webjet for the duration of the season.

There's absolutely no evidence that this is the case at all, so not only will we never know, I don't even know why you brought it up. This type of post is just as bad as the vultures in the AFL footy media we've all been complaining about in recent weeks. Don't have anything legitimate to rag on the guy about? No worries, we'll just make up a reason!

Indeed - the fact that they've got two players in their side who were not good enough to get a run with our bunch says plenty.

C'mon Cale, I haven't given up on you yet. It's all gone to poo, but it's up to you to turn it around and now you're being given a chance. Do it! I couldn't be happier with these changes. I might've given Dunn the flick before Petterd, but that's probably more due to a personal bias than an objective view.

Damn, shame I missed it. I was out of bed at the right hour too. Shame Clarke didn't sent Lyon in to get the last couple of runs with Harris - that would've been fitting! It's not often that a specialist bowler wins MOTM for his outstanding performance with the bat - absolutely no doubt Harris (ably supported by Lyon) was chiefly responsible for this win with that innings. Edit: Also, seems laughable that it wasn't that long ago that Bob and I were bemoaning the lack of batting power in the tail. In the last six months, every single one of Siddle, Harris, Lyon and Pattinson have contributed an important innings with the bat - and Hilfy is capable of an amusing cameo of unconvincing fours when the mood suits.

You're defending yourself from an attack I didn't make. I think everyone but you can see that. No more comment from me.

You need to cool down, Billy. I was amused by Maurie's quote, that's all. The whole reason the "like" button exists is so people can smirk in the background without being dragged in to the thread, but alas, here you are, dragging me in to the thread. Stop trying to pick fights where there are none.

I love it when I get addressed in an argument I'm not even part of.

Never thought I'd view a lengthy injury list and think that the most disappointing name to see on it is James Strauss. Gysberts as well. These are two was really hoping would step up this year. Jack - Spencer was listed as 1 last week and I was surprised, so it would seem he's done with his injury, though there'd be some serious cobwebs to blow out through the Casey 2's. I know many don't rate him, but I'm pleased he's back nice and early; some pressure on Jamar can only be a good thing in his current form.

It's in the MFC's best interests that this dies now, I suggest we cease giving it oxygen so it can do just that.

A few weeks ago they had the Scott brothers on AFL360 (I think), and they were talking about their experiences at Brisbane during their flags years with regards to how the players all knew what to do and all lead the way with regards to preparation and setting the standards without too much input from the coach. They then went on to say that it certainly wasn't that way during their spoon years (despite the playing list not actually changing that much) and that it was all basically thanks to Leigh forcing the standards on them initially that lead to them self-enforcing them later. This is what gives me hope that it won't always be this way. If Neeld and his support army are as strong and thorough as they appear, this playing group under the Jacks should eventually start taking responsibility and once that happens it will be a snowballing effect. It won't happen overnight of course, but let's not forget that Brisbane, Collingwood and Geelong were all basket cases before they became powerhouses.

There's nothing wrong with talking about end of year changes after round two - it's not like you can't change your mind as the year plays out. I think comparing early season thoughts to the final result makes it interesting, personally. I'll turn 30. If life begins at 40 I'll still have another 10 to wait!

Reading some of the RFC forums - a lot of those posters have been seriously affected. They're so used to losing that many of them fear they might actually drop this match. I know their form hasn't been great, but a strong club should be preparing to roll us. I might be a little sadistic, but taking a glance at the general "vibe" over at Richmond always makes me feel a bit better about the MFC. They've got to be the only club more mentally broken than us.

Warner's first test wicket! Wouldn't it be funny if after all this dicking around looking for a spinner post-Warne, Warner turns out to be a test-grade leggie? Ok, fanciful thinking (especially since the ball that took the wicket was rubbish) but I got a chuckle out of it.

Found him frustrating at times last year ("Nathan Zero Tackles Jones") - but he is showing the way this year. It feels like he's played 200 games and it's very easy to forget he's still young and that his best footy is ahead of him. He's been on a gradual but consistent learning curve through his whole career - and I think if we can manage to eek out a star somewhere along the way, Jones will make fantastic support.