Red But Mostly Blue

1 minute ago, Macca said:

So Oliver was squeaky clean in 2023?  Really?  I seem to remember him missing 3 months with some sort of mystery ailment

And then he lost the trust of the players and the FD.  That's ok?

Oh, and we put him up for trade in 2023 as well.  Is that the clubs fault?  Seriously? 

And then this season after picking up his monthly cheque of $100,000k he decides to present himself unfit and overweight

That's ok as well? 

As for Petracca, where do we start?

Never said he was squeaky clean. Other clubs have similar 'issues' and yet don't have to go through this!! 

Therein lies my issue. If Clarry/Trac had issues, fine, but we could have internalised them better to protect OUR brand and ability to obtain fair compensation should we trade either of them. 

21 minutes ago, Macca said:

Both Oliver & Petracca are 100% to blame

Have we seen Gawn, Viney, Rivers et al behave in the same way.  No

It's just those 2 but they just happen to be our best 2 players.  But I can put that aside because the club comes first 

I'd like to know how the club made Oliver go off the rails?  Please explain

As for Petracca and his petty attitude dragging the club through the mud for close on 3 weeks, that was disgraceful

100% ??? How do you know that??

And we don't know whether Clarry has gone "off the rails"? That's a rumour I wouldn't be pushing... It could be he has had some missteps (as originally reported, at the Brownlow/doc appointments), who knows? We don't know the magnitude and we still don't know who is actually pushing it. What I do know is that the trade talk has seemed at odds with Clarry's very recent comments in this space. So the leaks, and the way we have "shopped" him has been very poor. Whether he deserves to be traded or not (and I agree, club comes first), you look after the club and ensure we get the best return possible - which WILL NOT happen in this case.

With Trac, it would appear some was driven by branding/diva attitude, but again, how to tell? We had so many mixed messages from the club. Seems he had some issues with the club - which given how things have gone/are going, maybe deserved to be heard? Probably should have been aired out better, but it doesn't mean he was wrong. 

11 minutes ago, Macca said:

It pays not to have favourite players as they can let you down 

My favourite players are those who get the best out of themselves.  Even the average ones impress me if they give their all

At some stage Clarrie won't be playing for us but the club will go on regardless

I support the club but have critiqued the club when applicable

But I'm not going to blame the club for the poor behaviour of 2 players.  That's the media's angle and the power of the pen is mighty

So don't get sucked in by the media.  They're trying to sell stories and with the media, the truth often gets thrown in the waste paper baskets

3 years ago we were the media darlings and they loved everything that we did.  That sold newspapers or got clicks. Now the opposite has the same effect

Poor old Kate Roffey became the sacrificial lamb and what did she do wrong?  Avoided questions like Tim Lamb did ... what's the difference? 

For sure.

Don't get me wrong though, I am more lamenting the situation of (potentially) losing Clarry. Despite Brad's assurances. 

And 100% - while I think we have handled both cases very poorly (with Clarry, some of our acts have contributed to us having zero bargaining power), I do not absolve Trac or Clarry of blame. Both have contributed to the situation, and ultimately our inability to bring in important trades. 

Not everything is true, but some of it certainly is. and ultimately, I just want this all to settle down and have a normal, maybe even 'boring', uneventful offseason where everyone just puts their heads down, to focus on a flag in 2025. Or at the very least building back some trust, consistency and momentum towards success, on and off the field. 

This is relentless. Exhausting. Disheartening.

MFC: Just tell us what we're going to do and be done with it. 

If we're going to give one of our greatest ever players the old heave ho, for nothing, for reasons unknown because the comms team is a mess/messages are mixed/bins are on fire everywhere - then whatever. Just do it. 

Clarry is my favourite player and I'll be gutted if it goes, but I am tired of all this that I almost don't care anymore. And the opinion of us long-term members doesn't seem to matter. They don't listen. It's their job to run the footy club. But in my humble opinion, things are not being run well, and there is plenty of proof. Trac and Clarry debacles are recent examples.

It's like the plane has been going down for a while now, we've had the oxygen, but now we know nothing's going to change so I'm just going to stare out the window until it's done. 

What a sh*t show. 

Clarry is going to build upon his health and happiness with a HUGE preseason to start next year FIT and FURIOUS. 

He'll take this holistic wellbeing to bring out the midfield beast we all know and love in 2025 destroying oppo everywhere, and likely claiming, another, Bluey, AA and AFLCA. 

He is not going anywhere except for the gym and a few rounds of golf with the lads. 

You can take that to the bank. 

8 minutes ago, deanox said:

Oliver got 30 touches round 1, and 35 (and 3 Brownlow votes) in round 2.

No one at VFL was going to outperform Oliver this year.

 

Whether he had "served" his penalty is a different story, but on performance he may not have been the Oliver of old but he was better than any of our depth would have been.

Exactly right. I think people have already forgotten that we have very little depth. Our #2s finished 17th and can't really say anybody there was banging down the door on a regular basis to perform better than Clarry. While Clarry was certainly not fit, I think his performances were judged against his prior years - which is obviously a crazy high bar. 

48 minutes ago, Garbo said:

So if last year was his final warning and he’s broken there trust again you want to give him another chance just because. Sounds like the kind of poor culture that has got us in this position to start with 

We just don't know this, though. We don't know ALL the facts, and likely won't.

What if it isn't as easy as that? What if it is Pert acting alone? And we just hand over one of the best players we have EVER had, and we only find out later it was a colossal stuff up? We can't reverse trades. It wouldn't be the first time a club, or even our club, has done something stupid. 

As with almost everything, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Clarry has not been perfect, but seems to be trying, as attested to by all at the club throughout the year, but maybe he's offsided someone and this is personal. 

What I am saying (aside from my personal preference to keep him, giving him the benefit of the doubt - as I have seen him improve this year and looks happy and healthy - something to work with in the offseason) is that if we were to trade him, it should not have been done like this, because the poor way the club handles this will give us ZERO for him - we may as well keep him and see what we can do. By all accounts he does not want to leave. We can (in my opinion) deal with him and his 'issues' professionally, as other clubs seem to do without trashing their stars and reputation. Group the boys together, reset and commit together. 

No player is above the club. Agree. And we DO have to fix and improve our culture. But given we don't know everything about what has happened, it doesn't mean we just throw Clarry to the curb, for nothing, assuming it will fix things.

13 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Great summation. 

If we were not prepared to trade Oliver at any cost, then we should have set a price when we put him on the market. If we stipulated what the bare minimum compo would be, and there was no interest, then things could have been nipped in the bud before Oliver met with the Cats.

With the way things have transpired, Oliver's position at the club was untenable only at the right price. Crazy!!!!

Yep. If nothing else comes of this, I would hope someone sends every single relevant person at the Club back to school to complete Negotiation 101. The basics. 

Whether you think Clarry should, or should not, be traded is not really the issue here.

This has been handled ATROCIOUSLY by the club - again. Like last year. And Trac this year.

IF there is an issue - you DON'T destroy the club's bargaining power. It's as if we love entering into these situations (off our own bat) with the weakest hand possible. A self-inflicted handicap. Do we love the challenge? 

Personally, I want Clarry to stay. The notion of giving him (and his potential next year after a big preseason) up for a future pick in the LATE TEENS, plus likely paying some of his salary (to save for whom? Because of all this [censored] WHO wants to come to our club?? WHY?) makes no sense. If our window was not already closed with Gus gone, Trac a question mark for next year (either because we're just not sure when he will play, or his level due to injuries), then it will certainly be closed with Clarry gone. We have NO depth, and because of this mess cannot trade or recruit to fill gaps. Furthermore, any kids we get will need guys like Clarry to learn from. 

If Clarry has issues, still, fine. Apparently this has been known for some time. Like every other club we deal with it. If there have been mistakes made re other players - you acknowledge it - get everyone into a room, talk about it, clear the air and remind these guys that we are a FOOTY CLUB, a once great club, now apparently focused on drama and dirty laundry. You get on the same page about trying to snag a flag next year. If Trac and Carry are on the park, and we can somehow, perhaps through prayer lol, convince some talent to join us and fill a couple of gaps, we have enough talent to do some damage next year. 

BUT - everyone has to be on the same page. Clear the air. Put the mistakes behind us. Learn. FOCUS on what is needed to correct course next year. No more silly emails. Just good footy. 

I want Clarry in the red and blue next year. He needs help to focus. I get it. If there was an offer of 2 first rounders, or 1 first rounder and a solid player, fine. Maybe you say ok we cut our losses. But that ain't the case. Dropping Clarry for nothing at all, just to 'save cap space' and a future F1, for the Cats, will be late teens if we're lucky. Pointless. Meanwhile the Cats do what we should have done/do, sort Clarry out, and he helps them to win another flag next year.

Stuff that. Let's fix this. Shake hands. Build together. Snag a flag. 

#SnagAFlag

52 minutes ago, praha said:

One bad season after...

4 B&F

2x AFLCA awards

3x All-Australian

2x Coaches MVP

List goes on...

And before he turned 26.

Also he played a full season after no pre-season. And still averaged above average stats for a midfielder. After being "Elite" in every category for most of his career.

Insanity how quickly people both internally and externally are jumping off one of the all time greats after one bad season.

And all for a bag of chips!!!

It'll free up space.... and space for another person.

WHO??!! 

Clarry is a jet and has clearly required extra attention. Provided it does not unduly divide the group, and they can find some common ground, and work towards a common goal in 2025, together, HE STAYS!! Wins the ball for us, not the Cats. Stuff that. 

So what happened to our stupid email today? You know the one. The crappy, everything’s fine, don’t know what you’re worried about garbola. 

37 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

There is some history repeating here though.  We cant seem to hold on or foster decent players through a crisis it seems.

Some end up leaving and turn it around at other club (clubs who are better at doing so?) and end up turning their footy career around.

The latest Clazz saga feels like history repeating for me.

A large part of why we are where we are on this of course might be on Claz but the question has to be asked, why us so often?

We just don't feel like a destination club for whatever reason, even after a recent premiership.

Quite sad really.  We had a great opportunity post 2021 and it's looking more and more like we may have blown it.

This is the biggest issue for me. Or at least the equal biggest issue. The loss of Oliver, one of the best to ever wear the colours, is immense. Generational talent like that is… obviously rare. His likely loss will also be compounded by Tracc likely going as well. These things have cascading effects. Other team members see this, as do prospective trades and recruits. Why would they stay/join? 

It took us SO LONG to return to building some respect and redefining our culture… and through some bad luck yes, but mostly mismanagement we are looking at a dire 2025 - can’t see us doing better than bottom 4, we were very close with both Clarry and Tracc playing although admittedly to different degrees. Beyond that, HOW are we going to build for the future? Why would talent want to come to us? The reality is half of what has been said about us is likely not true, but it doesn’t matter, it’s perception. Talent will have the option of another safer stabler team likely with better talent and not their midfield obliterated, and us, which may be plagued by talk of culture, crappy Comms, board drama etc. prospect of years at the bottom. 

So. How will be recover from this? Seriously. And I’m sure we will. Some day I guess. But will it take another 10 years in  the doldrums? We had a real chance to finally stamp our return to relevance and I fear we have blown it.

What a waste.

Looks like we're going to lose one of the 'bangs' 😢

22 minutes ago, The Jackson FIX said:

 

I don’t understand this ‘I’m cancelling my membership’ or even more so this ‘what other team should I barrack for’ chat… 

I get people are unhappy with our situation. I’m not thrilled either. But supporting teams is about riding the highs and lows regardless of the ferocity, volume and depth of the lows.

Take yourself back to the evening of 25 September, 2021. The elation of that night had the years of Barry Prendergast, the post- Norm Smith years, the sad Robbie Flower years and the disappointment of the Daniher and Balme years all baked into it.  If you’re going to disappear when we approach a LOW then frankly you don’t deserve to be involved in the highs when they come along….

I feel like I’m lecturing a bunch of 6 year olds so I’m going to stop now.

 

I'm largely with you on this, but I think there is merit and cathartic value in making the big statements. 

I don't mind the lows. I guess that's part and parcel of being a Demons diehard. We (the last 60 years) have had wayy more lows than highs, and those lows have been pretty low, probably lower than most.

What I DO mind, and what does test the faith, is that this is not a natural low. You know, the ebb and flow of teams - you ride high, players get older, and you gotta rebuild. Unless you're the cats, of course - who don't seem to ride that low, and don't have the constant battery of accusations of poor culture/players wanting to leave/drug scandals/board issues etc etc... but anyway, I digress. This is not that - we won the flag in '21 and were on the cusp of a dynasty - best team we had fielded in yonks. Generational talent. Since then, we have had nothing but culture/scandal/missed opportunities (although I still say last year was bad luck, and would have been different had any one of the things that happened, not happened) - Tracc wanting to leave - the debacle surrounding that. Clarry issues - over two seasons - constant comms nightmares - nobody seems to be on the same page. Strange, inconsistent performances on field - getting belted by Freo TWICE in embarrassing circumstances. A team that did not even make the finals. If we lose Clarry - and we lose Tracc (in 25 or 26) - and people think we're going to improve next year - I ask, HOW? Viney is at the end. Rivers and McVee are good, but they are not star studded midfielders. There is no way to argue they are a like for like swap for Tracc and Oliver. Next year will likely be very ugly. We don't have draft capital this year. I want to, but I can't see how we climb out of this wreckage BETTER than where we were. 

I think now, and fine, perhaps after the review for the club to draw a line and explain to its members how we are here so soon after a premiership, and what the plan is to return to glory, before another 57 years.

I'm a 20+ year member and I am not cancelling my membership,. In fact I'll be signing up my 5yo and 1yo next year. BUT I want to know they will see success some day, and that the club is actively doing something about it, not just sticking the head in the sand! 

22 minutes ago, mo64 said:

It may be a blessing in disguise. Our notable trades over the past 3 years have been busts.

It's all part of a cunning plan, lol.

I'll have whatever you're having. 

But honestly, love your faith and will do my best to see silver linings as everything seems to be burning... 🤣

With all of this lately... Trac, Oliver etc - how the hell are we going to land any notable trades??

Who would want to come to us? 

WHAT A MESS  

Just realised I have been blocked by Brad Green on Twitter!! I haven't even said anything to him!??

I post from time to time asking the Club to do better/say something...but have NEVER outright trashed the club I love. 

Very strange... 

Friends, truly, I am exhausted.

This is exhausting. 

23-24 preseason: Oliver. JS. Goody. Culture

24 season: Culture, Tracc. Goody. President. Legal stuff. 

post 24 season (and not even 24/25 preseason): culture, Oliver again. Board/President. Kozzie? Viney? 

I am sure I have missed stuff, this is just a snapshot.

For Chrissie, I am asking for a normal club/offseason.

2 hours ago, Tough Kent said:

I just listened to Clayton Oliver on The Unlaced Podcast with Jake Barker-Daish. It was an excellent listen. Do yourself a favour.

My takeaways:

1. Clayton is in a very good head space. He sounds like he is in a very healthy state.

2. He loves the Melbourne Football Club and all his mates there.

3. He can’t wait to get back into training, he’s going back with the 1-4 year players. He acknowledges he was not fit this year and still describes himself as being “a bit fat”. He is very confident he will get back to where he was.

4. He rubbished the claims that Melbourne’s culture is poor. “We’re all mates and love having a laugh together. We just laugh at the media because they don’t know what’s happening on the inside”.

5. He loves Gawny and all that the skipper has done for him.

This was recorded last week. If Clayton is sitting down with Geelong, I can guarantee that it is not him that is pulling the strings on any potential move.

Over to you, Melbourne.

Really interesting, and not surprising based on what I have heard to date. Clarry looks to have gotten himself into a really good space, happy and healthy, which is great. He loves the club. From what WCW has said and what we have observed, I think he's an emotional guy, so this love for the club is important, and so is the love in return.

That's where it gets interesting. So my take is that he's been shopped - hence the Cats have, again, felt he is gettable - since they've received intel that he's on the table for the right price. Clarry has caught onto this. He updated his insta to remove references to the Club (#13) 😢 - and met with the Cats. This express action, I think, would be consistent with an emotional (maybe a little immature, sure, we know this already) guy who has felt pushed out.

This does not look to be Clarry's doing and as usual, we're getting mixed messages/non-messages from the worst comms team in the southern hemisphere. Maybe all the lands. 

Feel for Clarry. I reckon he's gonna be a jet next year. He's happy and healthy and will have a good preseason with the 1-4 year players. He's keen. But it appears this issue is not confined just to Clarry, which is really frustrating. 

Hey @WalkingCivilWar I have seen you pinged a few times here. I just want to send some goodness your way, hope you're doing ok. 

I still don't think the Cats have anything to give us, aside from TWO established players (and that requires said players to actually want to leave - because let's face it, the Cats are playing, at worst, a prelim next year), so I am not sure how this gets done, even if Clarry wants it to get done. For whatever reason. 

However, I will say this - IF this gets done - which could only be for a packet of chips - I think I might be done with footy for a while. The last couple of years have been exhausting. We went from being on the cusp of a dynasty to rabble in just 3 short years. Partly a media beat-up, sure, but also partly our own doing. The constant culture scrutiny, Goody beat-ups, our poor comms, the Petracca drama (which has not truly gone away) has me tired. I want to love following my club, but this shizen has me sighing every time I open my browser. You'd have to argue there is even greater impetus for a review, and I would expect to see more of an outcome. Who exactly is going to play for us next year? No Clarry, and ??? with Petracca (in general, but also what kind of player he'll actually be with his injuries) does not bode well for us. That's a bottom 4 finish, easy. (Very small) window closed. Max, May and Jack play out contracts for a rebuild. We were not far off a bottom 4 finish this year, and we had Petracca for half a year! And admittedly an underdone (but still good/v good at times Clarry). What a debacle.

Why can't we just be a stable team? Why don't the cats deal with this stuff? 

Anyway, it's all a big IF for now, but as a 20+ year member I am not happy.

6 minutes ago, Heart Beats True said:

I hope Clarry doesn't go however to say Geelong doesn't have anything to give us is incorrect. There are a number of players including SDK (who I've read is disgruntled), Max Holmes, etc, who I'm sure we would look at.

I take your point. Sorry, I meant draft picks, but yeah they obviously have a few players we'd gladly take off their hands, if realistic. Are SDK and Max BOTH looking for a trade? To us? Because that's the bare minimum I think/hope we'd consider. It's just my humble opinion, I love Clarry and know he will return to his best next year, but I don't think SDK for him is a win for us at all. That's the Cats winning a trade, again. Which they somehow manage to do often. We hold firm. Clarry is a 3 x All Australian, 4 x B&F. Neither Sam, nor SDK, has even one such title. 

And realistically, I don't believe the Cats would hand them both over, so I don't believe there is a realistic deal there, which is what I was alluding to in my earlier post. 

Doesn't really bother me IF other clubs are into Clarry. They'd be mad not to. 

Geelong will take Bailey, and simply don't have anything to give us. Sometimes I wander past the Ferrari showroom and stick my face to the window and point. Doesn't mean diddly squat. 

FWIW Geelong can shove their interest right up the back entrance of their $340m funded stadium.

Anyhoo, all the interest in Clarry, generally, simply means other clubs what our club would know - that he has immense value and WILL return to his best next year. Otherwise they wouldn't be asking.

We love Clarry and Clarry loves us, and the journos pushing this garbage are gutter rats. Fugazi.

Ignore. 

Oh FFS.

Enough.

Let's 'start a few enquiries' at other clubs. Dees are considering trade approaches for Hogan, Gulden, Curnow, N Daicos, Sheezel, Serong, Young, Xerri, Warner, Waterman. That should do it for now. 

Can't be said he wasn't handy/v good at points last year, so there's that to be thankful for. 

For whatever reason, fitness included I guess, there was little value this year and lots of mystery. I'm guessing the mods will be all over this one today haha, but yeah see ya! Not sure he truly ever lived up to his potential, but he's not alone in this respect. 

Thankful for the spot this frees up, and the (hopefully) renewed, laser focus on success/new starts next year. 

I think this is another step in the right direction, in this case out the door.