stevethemanjordan

Lol. Where? Somehow I don't think a forwardline of two Macs, Hogan, Weed, Pedo and Watts is going to work..

Attribute diversity is the glaring weakness through our midfield. I would consider Viney and Oliver A-grade contested ball winners with Jones not far behind. Petracca and Brayshaw were A-grade contested ball winners in their draft year so you'd expect them to develop into A-grade AFL ball winners too. We have one of the best contested ball winning midfields within the comp when everyone is on the park. The problem is that so many of them share the same weaknesses. Running ability (including both power and speed), decision making and footskills. That spells disaster if your midfield group are having a particularly bad kicking day. The opposition mauls us on the rebound when we either directly turn the ball over or even kick to a 50/50 at times. The first quarter against Collingwood was indicative of this and was symbolic of the way we'd been playing for the last month. That's one issue. Another is the fact that we were playing Brayshaw and Tyson out of position and had one too many of Harmes and ANB playing in positions thaT need to be filled by specialist types. Again, ANB, Tyson and Brayshaw were all prolific under-aged contested ball winners who were centre square starters and they similarly all share similar strengths and weaknesses. Tyson is not a wingman. ANB is not a small forward. Brayshaw is not a half-back. I believe those three playing those positions were a great hindrance to the way the modern game needs to be played. And then there's our defence. Which is something I've said my piece on. But let's just put it this way; regardless of how many turnovers we make further up the ground or how fast the ball is coming into our defensive 50 etc, there will always be players who can defend much better than others. Hibberd and Jetta are proof of that. They rarely lose contests and they generally always kill the ball. The more defenders both tall and small you have that display these traits, the better your defensive group will be no matter what's happening further up the field. And the fact is, we leak too many oppo scoring opportunities through our key defenders' lack of ability to defend well. Fact.

How are you unable to see real talent when it smacks you in the face?

I'm tempted to make a long-winded post in regards to all points, but I genuinely can't be farked so I'll say the following. Your general reductionist view of 'the third tall' means you're unable to see what makes Lever such a truly special player. Given the way the game is now played with zone defences, the need for versatility, agility, marking and spoiling skills are more important than ever when it comes to key defenders. Lever is the number one intercept mark in the AFL at age 22. The same age as Oscar and similar games experience. You grossly underestimate this rare skill he possesses. Knowing when and where to run to make an intercept mark or spoil. He is elite in this area. Better than Hibberd. I'm going to again post a video of a highlights package from his second year. None of our key defenders even come close to impacting the marking contests that Lever wills himself to. Oscar simply doesn't have the speed nor intensity, Frost doesn't have the game understanding or awareness and Tom is similarly hit and miss with contests. Lever is a [censored] amazing footballer at 22 years of age and the reason club's are offering the money is because of how good an intercept player he is. He is the prototype key defender.

$850 would indeed be a steal.

Cool, I take it you don't watch much of him. Perhaps you watched the game against West Coast and made up your mind?

Leads the AFL for intercept marks at 22. Overrated lol.

I find it hard to see how he is 'overrated' given what he is managing at this age. I'm pretty sure he was named in the AA extended squad. It would be like saying Oliver is overrated. But somehow I don't think you'd believe that given your bias. Some supporters have NFI about talent from other clubs. Those who suggest Lever is overrated usually fit that bracket.

Hahaha. Good one. Mate if he was a Melbourne player, he'd be treated like Jesus' second coming.

Yeh. The Hibberd trade was a disaster..

Good point, didn't think of that.

Am I reading too much into the fact that Frost is listed as an 'out' in the teams listed for Casey's first final? Is he injured? Or has he been told we won't be offering him a contract for next year and he'll be traded..

This post really doesn't make a lot of sense. If we lack pace as a side, then the question to ask would be; which players through our midfield are most expendable? As a pure inside mid, Dom sits way down the pecking order which is part of the reason why he has been playing on the wing in more of an outside role. He was brought to our club as a pure ball winner and that's where he was most effective and had his best year. That's his game. Winning inside ball. But like all sides, once your talent level and list quality grows and you bring in players with greater attribute diversity, then your lesser types and one trick ponies like Dom will be found out. Viney, Oliver, Jones, Lewis, Petracca, Brayshaw. All of them trump Tyson in most areas of the game. Dom Tyson playing on a wing at AFL level is nothing short of ludicrous. He is slow and lacks pace so he has a shocking ability to run two-ways. His footskills and decision making are bog ordinary. These facts are undeniable. Whether or not we keep or trade him is not really something that bothers me too much. What bothers me is that he is playing in a position and role that is simply not cut for the type of player he is and he was just so incredibly ineffective in many games this year. He needs to either play a second-fiddle pure inside mid role if a Viney or Oliver get injured or he doesn't have a place in the side. As for the 'ability to win possessions' call that is made by his constant defenders. I have three points for you: 1 - Being the AFL's number one side for disposals means you're going to see a higher average in individual numbers also. 2 - Given his outside role this year, his uncontested numbers were generally always more than his contested. Which means he was given the ball. Or picked it up with nobody around. This is not under 10's. That is not worthy of praise. 3 - The most important thing in all of this 'possession' talk ESPECIALLY as an outside type is what you do with the ball. The value of your possessions. The quality of the disposal. And by golly goodness, not only does he not damage the opposition. He damages his own side by turning it over. Dom is without any doubt whatsoever a problem when playing wing for the MFC.

^ Tune.

Lever is 22 and already plays at an incredibly high standard throughout games. Which is why a fluffed kick here and there is not put under the microscope. The same can be said for Hibberd. He was missing a lot of kicks on the weekend that he usually hits but it everything else he does is at such a high level. The same can't be said for many other players. Tyson, Tom McDonald, Oscar. The list goes on.

I like the thread. IMO we need a radical change to a few areas and here's a lineup that will no doubt cause a ruckus and sometimes I genuinely think this could work. B Jetta Hogan T-Mac HB Hibberd Lever Lewis C Hunt Jones Salem HF Motlop Pedo Watts F Garlett Weideman Petracca Foll Gawn Viney Oliver Int Brayshaw Hannan Vince Harmes That is a line-up that I'd love to see and I would feel so much more excited and confident in knowing how strong that defence is. Knowing the we can perform without Hogan playing forward and in knowing that he played just as much key defence as an under-aged kid. In fact, I genuinely believe he'd be a better defender than forward. He could be the best in the league. Weideman you'd hope will be able to do just as well if not better than Oscar McDonald did this year given the level of talent he has. Not only that, it's much less risky having an underdeveloped key position player in the forwardline than it is in the backline. Motlop would add a completely different dimension and I believe like we've seen with Garlett and Melksham that in a the right environment he'd have no trouble getting back to his best. And his best is absolutely electric. It allows Trac to play deep forward with midfield stints which is an extremely scary proposition for opposition defenders. Would also take pressure of Weed, Pedo and Watts. In general, that kind of a lineup has very few holes compared to what we went with this year. It's also much more balanced and stable from the defence through to the wings. Better ball users, better running players. Before any on gets their knickers in a knot, tell me what it is about that side that you think wouldn't work?

Would take him over Oscar anyday but obvs that's not going to happen.

Maynard is more of what we have. Fine for back-up and cheap rookie option but he doesn't add anything that we don't already have enough of. Too much of in my opinion. Fritsch on the other hand would be someone I'd love to give an opportunity to.

Lever is a much more reliable kick than any of our key defenders and his decision making is what sets him apart. Yeh, I saw the turnover he made in the dying stages of the game against West Coast but that was an anomaly. Generally, he is a very composed player with ball in hand and gives to the right option either by hand or by foot. His decision making, awareness and general footballing smarts are way above Frost and both McDonalds. It's part of the reason he went so high in the draft. And part of the reason both McDonald's and Frost went so low in the draft is because they have major flaws in their game. And all of those flaws are to do with decision making and ball use. Oscar is the only one who actually possesses a decent kicking action and execution. But other areas of his game are truly below AFL standard. We need high end talent in our key defensive stocks.

I'm talking about those who defend the club and suggest that neither are problems. It's my position that it can only be one, the other or both. Edit* (I could have worded it betterer).

I'm simply returning serve in a similar fashion. Whether it be this thread or others, you similarly see me as a negative nelly. Which would suggest you also believe I see things in black and white. A concern that doesn't worry me in the slightest ; )

I think you may have missed the invite but there's still a place for you. @Nasher's end of season BBQ bash - talking things only good and positive re: MFC. In attendance so far, we have @Vogon Poetry,@Wiseblood, @Satyriconhome, @Rhino Richards (who funnily enough seems to only 'like' posts made by these guys lately) and a few others. Should be a seriously insightful time. A blast. You'll fit right in.

Agree, I named three positions that need be filled by players that have attributes that we lack as a side. And I also stated that there are plenty of other areas that need addressing. One is bringing in a quality key defender. Part of the reason I didn't talk about it is because I have said my piece on the two McDonald boys and Frost. But it seems evidence is not enough for some to see that we have some glaringly obvious list problems, aside from our obvious talent and 'potential'.

Oath. The way Jones speaks about us missing finals due to a "culmination of results" during the season is evidence enough. He deflects and defends the performance. I don't understand. It should be viewed in the exact opposite way. The culmination of results during the season got us into a position whereby we would make finals if we won our last game of the year. A game against a Collingwood side who were missing Pendlebury, De Goey, Wells, Ben Reid, Varcoe and Greenwood. For all the posters who do nothing but defend on this forum and you know who you are, I have this to pose: If you believe it's a furphy that our club has serious deep-seated issues in what real success, ruthlessness and genuine understanding of moments of importance look like then it must be a player thing. And if it's a player thing, why do you lot defend the players who are rightfully criticised in games that are played in a similar fashion to the game against Collingwood? You can't have it both ways. It's one, or the other. Or a little of both.

Of course he can. Think Mitch Clarke freo/us. He probably has. Farken.