stevethemanjordan

I don't believe that's harsh. I see it as the truth, he was a rookie for that very reason. He is raw, his skills are hit and miss. You've named his athletic qualities which I agree are strong. Without Hibberd and Jetta, we'd be an absolute mess down there. We need a key defender who does a lot right most of the time. Hibberd and Jetta provide that. We need a key defender who will do that too.

Frost will never be a quality key defender. He will always remain a 'specialised' one who plays a support role. His footballing smarts and footballing specific skill-set are very average and it's his freakish athletic qualities that get him games. Oscar McDonald is developing very slowly and I have no idea what he'll become. He has no standout qualities at this level and has shown slow improvement. Only in the last month has he started to take some strong intercept marks but he is still really inconsistent in games, especially his intensity and spoiling. Gary Rohan was all over him early on Friday night. Whilst we're still a developing side, the AFL landscape has changed and it's clear that teams can challenge for a flag earlier than once thought. We can't afford to wait and hold hope that Frost and Oscar will develop. We need quality now. This year we have leaked far too many goals through our questionable defence. Frost and Oscar gift goals to the oppo too often. I hope we make an offer for Lever.

I think supporters fail to understand that not every player on our list will be apart of a premiership or even contribute necessarily. There's a blueprint to an extent to follow in regards to list management and we're clearly at a stage where we need to start to identify missing puzzle pieces to add to our 'core'. Now, obviously some demonlanders will have all of Frost and both McDonald's as part of our core. That is simply a non-objective view of the worth of our key defenders. It's a Melbourne supporters view. Where every player has a place. As far as I'm concerned, none of our three current key defenders possess any significant composure with ball in hand. Frost is an athlete and is still developing basic decision making and kicking execution skills. Whenever he makes a dashing run from defence it's basically a 50/50 whether or not it'll result in a positive bit of play or a turnover. I've said my piece on Oscar and whilst I agree the last one and a half games have been really positive, he is similarly years away from being close to Lever. We have an opportunity to go hard for a player who would help our cause to no end. We're really only a couple of target players away + the natural development of our core to be challenging consistently for a few years. Lever is a big game player already, and a key defender who in my eyes will be the best in the game within three years. Frost or O-Mac won't ever be that. Because they don't possess the attribute diversity that he possesses, regardless of development to date. Which is obviously why he was so highly rated in host draft year even on the back of doing his ACL. Bring him home Dees.

Best complete game he has played without making too many errors and no diabolical errors. Strong in the air, intercept marked well and generally used the ball well. Have got to thank the work and pressure of the midfield also. Makes it easier for defenders to play well, especially key defenders. Hopefully he continues this form next week against a tall West Coast side.

^ Very good

The ball is completely in his court, Adelaide have no say in whether or not he chooses to come back to Vic. Only that they'll have a preference of club to deal with depending on who has the better hand. From the articles that I've read, it'll be family and girlfriend that are the deciders. I don't care why we pay for him. If we land him, it'll be a game changer for our club.

If there was a medal for the most misleading stat within the AFL, this would be hot favourite.

Upon closer look, you might be right. Might be.

Haha. A clearing kick that happened to find a Melbourne jumper? I guess some might say that's clever.

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-06-14/how-a-former-don-is-steering-the-dees-to-finals Of equal importance to Jack's finishing skills was Hibberd's last minute diving spoil against De Goey that not only disallowed what could have easily been a goal to Collingwood, but presented us with the opportunity to go end-to-end and put the game beyond doubt. Which is what eventuated. The picture is amazing. What's not so amazing is how another AFL journo can so easily muddle up De Goey with Treloar. Really amateur given it's their proffession. Anyway, Hibberd has been monumental for us this year. An enormous moment.

True. But I'm a Melbourne supporter and have been programmed to think otherwise.

His worst game on Monday, by a mile. The positive is that we won and he's now got an opportunity to have a response game in an arguably more important clash. I really am only expecting one win over the next three rounds given our continual one-quarter lapses. If we continue the trend, none of the next three teams will be as kind during those lapses. Any of the dogs, WC or Sydney could put us to bed in one quarter if we stink it up like we have been. I'm confident that our best can match it. But I'm not confident that we will play our best for long enough.

I said that about his past month. Not Monday's game.

An honestly ridiculous post. Especially your last sentence. Any player who continuously makes errors, is slow to react and looks completely and utterly out of his depth like Oscar has over the past month will be criticised. There's a reason why he was named on the extended bench at match selection. And that's still on the back of being three talls down. (Spencer, Gawn and Hogan). To me, that says a lot. He is young and will hopefully develop. But not all players come on, which is something some supporters fail to understand. There are no guarantees at AFL level and if you're a later draft pick, it generally means there are some knocks on your game unless you had a severe injury during your draft year or some other special circumstance that meant you were taken late. Both McDonald's were late picks and Frost was a rookie. None of them had serious injuries during their under 18 years so therefore they have more obvious weaknesses to their game. Examples: General footballing specific skills for Frost, skills of Tom McDonald, speed and awareness of Oscar. They're weaknesses. If you look at the other lines we have, we're stacked with high end picks. Midfield and Forward. Which is why we see players like ANB, Stretch, Kent etc in and out of the side constantly. They don't have the same room to move as Oscar does on game day. We have much more coverage and higher quality coverage at that. An important point that is often missed when the Oscar debate sparks. Oscar will continue to be "bagged" until this problem is resolved. Which will without a doubt be by the start of next season

Apparently it does around here. It's odd that a player who plays to the standard you expect from someone playing in that position gets his own congratulatory thread. I'm talking about basic spoiling in the air and hitting basic targets by both foot and hand. He showed that he was competent in the second half without staring or doing anything particularly special. I saw him take a good intercept mark. But I genuinely can't recall anything other than him not making mistakes in the second half? (After making quite a few in the first). I mean, the very creation of this thread is proof that he has been under-performing. Congratulations Oscar for not making any diabolical errors in the second-half. If you are able to reproduce that effort, you may be considered a future star in the making on demonland. I'm more than happy to discuss in detail what it was about his second-half that posters think was anything other than solid.

Yes. It's a headf*#^

Both, given May and Lever feature strongly. Lever is a must get.

With opposition teams targeting Oscar in one-out situations, it's understandable that he features. Unfortunately, ineffective spoils are also counted as spoils. A spoil is a spilt ball that an opponent gets a hand on. Again, that spoil stat doesn't really tell the full-story. The quality defenders are the guys that feature in many of these stat categories.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-06-09/key-to-defence-back-yourself-and-team-structures Some more stats for the stat lovers.

We may well do things properly now but that doesn't change the fact that not all players that are signed to a list, stay on that list. Speculating on who will make it or not is part of being a supporter and is welcome discussion on a forum like this. I agree with Biff. I don't think there's a future for Hullett at the MFC based on what I've seen of him, regardless of his development. He doesn't possess anything we're crying out for attribute-wise. He is just a solid foot-soldier.

Is the last player we need. Doesn't possess anything we don't already have. Is exactly the player we would have gone for during the early post-Neeld era. Watch Richmond pay overs for him.

Not a chance.

Has played 43 games and is 21. Is anyone watching tonight? If demonlanders are convinced Oscar will become a 'great' key defender over time, I can't even imagine what they'd think Lever will become?!

All of these concerns are a non issue if your team possesses the following: - A competent key defender who can combat a disadvantage in height with strong body work and a really competitive and hard edge to the way they play. (Rance, May, McGovern). None are above 196cm - A two-way running midfield who consistently provide pressure on the opposition's quality of forward 50 entries. - A ruckman who is willing to run defensively, sit in the hole when required and be that tall that you're talking about. If you get those three things right, the opposition are going to have a very tough time marking anything inside 50. No matter the size of the forward. Part of why we're missing Gawn is for his ability to defend as that extra key defender at times. But we'll soon have him back. I think our midfield has generally been pretty good at disallowing really easy forward 50 entries. (Compared to the last few years anyway). We can always improve. And I would say it's our key defenders that have been the weakest link at present. Oscar doesn't cut it, Frost is still learning and T-Mac has been wildly inconsistent.

Defensively speaking, yeh, champion data will show that he is clearly in the top 5. He is a wonderful defender. The criticism comes from his kicking and decision making with ball in hand. And it's warranted. I don't need champion data to tell me that. The fact that improvement in this part of his game can barely be seen is the reason supporters get upset. It's totally understandable.