stevethemanjordan

Key word. As said, at this early stage I would do the deal. Let us stop derailing however, back to Jake Lever. Here's Ralph's idea. Carlton look like big winners in this hypothetical though. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/could-a-adelaide-carlton-and-melbourne-threeway-mega-trade-be-a-winwinwin/news-story/af3300af42e2e7557aedd4267f3a91d9

Three first round picks.

I would take the three first round picks ahead of Clayton at this point in time full stop. For a multitude of reasons. Hope that's clear enough.

Okay, apologies. I believe that aside from Oliver, we have some players who have star potential. They're not there yet, just like Oliver isn't. If we were offered three first round picks for Oliver, I would be confident that we could hit the draft and nail at least one player inside the top 10 who would have similar star potential plus two other chances of gaining high quality players. The underlying point in all of this for me is that Oliver has shown potential at this stage imo. Yeh he had a great year. But I've seen this with young players before and I'm also aware of the type of person Oliver is, regardless of how he turned it around at the beginning of this pre-season. There's a lot of growing to do and a lot of water to go under the bridge before we can call him a 'star' of the comp. People use that term all the time. Whether it was Zaharakis in his first year, Gysberts after his first three games etc etc. So at this stage right here and now, I'd take the picks.

Also, @Rhino Richards seems to only 'like' posts these days that are either quoting mine, or someone else that he seems to take issue with. So on behalf of all of us that irk you Rhino Richards, I'd like to say hi. I miss talking football with you. Steve.

We're on a bit of a merry-go-round here but I'll try to be more clear. I recognize that Clayton is a highly talented inside mid who has had a superb second year as a developing player. Having said that, I also recognise that as a midfield, most of our talent is concentrated in a contested-heavy group comprised of Viney, Brayshaw, Petracca and to a lesser extent Tyson and Salem. All are top 10 picks, (Viney would have been) and all (bar Salem) were elite contested ball winning mids during their 18's year and imo share similar weaknesses as players. Now obviously it's completely subjective as to where one rates Oliver within that group of talent at this early stage in their careers. Petracca has already done an ACL, Brayshaw has had concussion and knee troubles, Salem hamstring and Thyroid issues and Jack had an interrupted year this season after having an unbelievable year in 2016, arguably as good as Clayton's 2017. Aside from Viney for his first two years, Oliver is really the only player of that group to have had true continuity in both his training and playing from the day he was drafted. The rest are still largely unknown but in my view the talent levels and potential are hard to separate with the exception of perhaps Tyson. (My whipping boy). Hypothetically speaking, if an opposition club were to come to me as head recruiter of the MFC with three first-round picks on offer for Clayton at this point in 2017, I would happily shake hands on the deal. Two picks inside the top 10 and one outside. Clarry's unique attributes imo are how clean he is around the ball, his vision in close and his hand-ball execution to the right target in close. Both Trac and Brayshaw are similarly strong over-overhead and as far as everything else goes, I think we possess enough inside talent to let Clarry go for three first round picks at this point in time. That's one reason. The second would be these factors: Given the recruiting team we have now, the type of characters we seem to target, the development coaches and leaders we have at the club presently, I would back the club in to successfully identify three players - (who once developed) - would provide a better and more even balance to our list given we can target positional players and greater attribute diversity. It would allow us to have a more even spread of high-end talent across the entire list. One only needs to look at GWS this year to see how important that is when injuries strike. A risk? Of course. It's all a risk. Rejecting three first-round picks for Clarry would also be a risk. But I would do the deal given the reasons I have provided.

I think view typifies the stereotypical one-eyed supporter. You talk clarry up, yet only rate Lever against Rivers without expressing the same level of love or confidence that he could too similarly be a star of the comp. I don't doubt Clarry's talent and I certainly think what he achieved and produced this year was very special for a second year player. But as Melbourne supporter, I'm used to players not reaching or fulfilling their potential. So as I said, at this point in time I would take the hypothetical swap. Ask me in a couple of years or even at the end of next year and my answer may be different. I see a lot of potential with our young group but it genuinely irks me that some think it'll just happen for us.

Not 9 draft picks. And that's for Danger or Martin who have performed at an elite level year after year. I know what Wiseblood was getting at, I just wanted to be a smartarse. But if you're asking me honestly about Oliver, I would take three first round picks over him, but as follows: Two inside the top 10 and one outside. I love Clarry as much as anyone, but I want us to unearth a genuine star of the competition. And we haven't done that yet or ever for as long as I've followed the club. I hope he continues this trajectory in both form and development because if he does, I may similarly say that you can't put a price on him. At present however, you can.

I would. Without blinking.

^ Oath.

I imagine that will be the most likely trade and whilst it does seem like a lot, I think we'd be asking for the same if the situation were reversed. I also think it's necessary. Supporters get too carried away with draft picks and Lever is proven quality at the age of 21. He's also the same age as our core and if we land him it'll be enormous for our club and that group moving forward. We picked Scully and Trengove at picks 1 and 2 once upon a time. Brayshaw is an unknown at this point as a pick 3. You take quality vs potential where you can. Two second round picks this year could also land us some fantastic quality if we get it right. There are more Sloanes and Fyfes out there ya'll. Edit: For @Redleg

Fingers crossed eh. Means I can stop talking about O-Mac as much if we do get him.. I'm sure that will please a few.

All I know is that the more players of serious quality we have in the same team, the higher our chances are of reaching the ultimate. Even if that means one of our young stars seek a trade for big dollars elsewhere down the line. I would rather watch our club win a premiership over keeping a bunch of young players for 10 years. Times are changing, plan for the now with an eye to the future.

Seriously. I still can't look at that photo without being weirded out. It's like someone photoshopped Fyfe to be small.

I've seen him live a couple of times too Spirit. Will definitely be a player, hard to know if he'll reach Lever's heights. He actually reminds me of Rance a bit, similar athletically and attribute-wise.

Thoughts on O Mac Binman? ... ........

At 22, some of his defensive plays are insane. Some of his spoils last night went as far as 30 metres. And his composure with ball in hand is super impressive. I don't care what we give up, he is going to be the best defender in the comp within a few years.

Danger going at pick 10 still makes me slightly ill. And the bloke we picked at number 4 in the same year makes me even more ill.

And so they should. Lever was a pick 14 and I think posters should remember that he slipped in the draft having missed his full last U/18's year of footy. He's now considered the best young defender in the competition. Combine that with the years of development that Adelaide have put in to him and objectively one would agree that the crows actually do deserve more than pick 10 only. I know that if I were a crows supporter I'd be wanting more than pick 10.

Yeh have heard some good things too, will be interesting to see where he goes and whether or not his body holds up once on a list.

Oath ^ I'm not sure why some believe that we're out of the race for Lever now that we've re-signed Frost. Here's a quick profile of what key defence depth looks like: West Coast - Mackenzie, McGovern, Schofield and Barrass. This year they went with only three of the four and they had McInnes come in earlier in the year as a swing man whilst they had injuries. McGovern similarly went forward whilst Kennedy was injured. And they have an abundance of tall ruck/forwards who were really effective and helped carry the load. Really, we should be aiming to play Tom and one of Oscar or Frost with Lever as our intercept mark/spoiler ala McGovern for West Coast. Ideally, I'd love a mature-aged big body with an older head who could start ahead of Oscar and Frost also whilst they continue to work on their games at VFL level. Either that or as I said, we could make a radical move and play Hogan at full back. Whichever way it goes, I can't at all see how the signing of Frost will have any bearing on the Lever approach.

Unfortunately I didn't get the chance to see the Stingrays this year sorry Chaser.

Attribute diversity is the glaring weakness through our midfield. I would consider Viney and Oliver A-grade contested ball winners with Jones not far behind. Petracca and Brayshaw were A-grade contested ball winners in their draft year so you'd expect them to develop into A-grade AFL ball winners too. We have one of the best contested ball winning midfields within the comp when everyone is on the park. The problem is that so many of them share the same weaknesses. Running ability (including both power and speed), decision making and footskills. That spells disaster if your midfield group are having a particularly bad kicking day. The opposition mauls us on the rebound when we either directly turn the ball over or even kick to a 50/50 at times. The first quarter against Collingwood was indicative of this and was symbolic of the way we'd been playing for the last month. That's one issue. Another is the fact that we were playing Brayshaw and Tyson out of position and had one too many of Harmes and ANB playing in positions thaT need to be filled by specialist types. Again, ANB, Tyson and Brayshaw were all prolific under-aged contested ball winners who were centre square starters and they similarly all share similar strengths and weaknesses. Tyson is not a wingman. ANB is not a small forward. Brayshaw is not a half-back. I believe those three playing those positions were a great hindrance to the way the modern game needs to be played. And then there's our defence. Which is something I've said my piece on. But let's just put it this way; regardless of how many turnovers we make further up the ground or how fast the ball is coming into our defensive 50 etc, there will always be players who can defend much better than others. Hibberd and Jetta are proof of that. They rarely lose contests and they generally always kill the ball. The more defenders both tall and small you have that display these traits, the better your defensive group will be no matter what's happening further up the field. And the fact is, we leak too many oppo scoring opportunities through our key defenders' lack of ability to defend well. Fact.

How are you unable to see real talent when it smacks you in the face?

I'm tempted to make a long-winded post in regards to all points, but I genuinely can't be farked so I'll say the following. Your general reductionist view of 'the third tall' means you're unable to see what makes Lever such a truly special player. Given the way the game is now played with zone defences, the need for versatility, agility, marking and spoiling skills are more important than ever when it comes to key defenders. Lever is the number one intercept mark in the AFL at age 22. The same age as Oscar and similar games experience. You grossly underestimate this rare skill he possesses. Knowing when and where to run to make an intercept mark or spoil. He is elite in this area. Better than Hibberd. I'm going to again post a video of a highlights package from his second year. None of our key defenders even come close to impacting the marking contests that Lever wills himself to. Oscar simply doesn't have the speed nor intensity, Frost doesn't have the game understanding or awareness and Tom is similarly hit and miss with contests. Lever is a [censored] amazing footballer at 22 years of age and the reason club's are offering the money is because of how good an intercept player he is. He is the prototype key defender.