Rhino Richards

Neitz was accosted by a number of bouncers getting into a cab FCS. He was leaving a venue and thank god he took a taxi. Voss's situation is worse than Neitz. It was not human. It was nasty, inept and atrocious behaviour. He can tell the Magistrate how human he is. Hall took the issue about his character and his performance on himself and Sydney gave him the opportunity. Pike survived because he played AFL and behaved like Pike does in relative anonymity in Brisbane. When you win a flag or two it repressess a few neanderthal behaviours for a short time. he would not have survived in the Southern states as three clubs would attest to.

PM Demondeb

Voss's behaviour compromises any entity he represents. I dont see the relevance of the provoked reaction to you not condoning hitting people. It was a lack of self control, poor judgement and appalling behaviour. He had no need to do it and I dont think it is a minor slip up. He has been charged by the police and its serious. Its a not a matter of whether it damns him as a coach or not, its just unacceptable behaviour especially from someone who is publicly recognised for his leadership and at 34 (?) it does raise questions. I know you want him as Coach but your defense of his actions that night is misguided

I am not talking about hard ball possessions that characterise a Scott West or Sam Mitchell. That in itself is an issue. Its more just the contested ball. He does not win it. He struggles if closely checked and has shown himself fragile if closely checked. He also cant and wont tackle front on which is another issue on the defensive side of things. He's got some great attributes but they do not hide his shortcomings. He'll have his days in the sun and he is great to watch on the fly but its all too infrequent. As a total package I am concerned that he has a limited upside to him. In modern football, players dont run all day and are interchanged regularly to prevent fatigue. Your tank issue has no substance. Are you saying he is not fit? Davey has to develop more skills than just being quick. Every side knows he is quick and given the opportunity will do everything to stifle him. Its working so far. Its not enough and he is learning some hard but hopefully valuable lessons. I am yet to see him produce in big games (finals or against sides that physically pressure you). I am puzzled why some posters were so keen to get his brother (in preference to Petterd). Its more of the same. At best we can only afford to have one of him in the side and if his performance does not lift this comment might be an extravagance. I hope he proves me wrong. I just doubt it from what I have seen in the past two years.

If he can get tagged around the ground he will get tagged up forward. No side will willing give him the latitude up there. They know what he can do and they will get someone to tag him. He can just as easily run 40-50 metres around the ground as he could up forward. He just does not win the ball. He has to do more than feed off and capitalise of other players hard work. If he is going to establish himself as something more than his nickname he has to consistently win the ball not get the easy feeds.

He did not do it against Carlton. Good players get tagged and work around it and still perform.

Good to see Miller, Buckley, CJ and Frawley maintain their spots. We need to give them the chance to develop and in some cases show if they can make it. Now to seasons end is a perfect time to do this. N.B Did not see your post SS.

Davey has been a significant let down this year with his form. His game against the Bulldogs this year was good but thats been about it. he has really struggled to win the ball If he gets distracted by his brother's injury it only re inforces the mental fragility that was exposed in the elimination final last year. I have always been concerned about Davey in heavy traffic and the contested ball. I wonder if he has the strenght of mind to take the next step. He was terrible against Carlton bar his goal snap. Completely invisible. Its should be embarrassing to a player and indicative of the poor form to have a normally unaccountable front runner like Ryan Houlihan tag you out of a game.

Your argument was debunked months ago why do you hang on to it?

"Having good forwards straightens up midfields." I responded to CB. Robbo kicked 75 goals in 2005. Pity he is not a key forward. Thanks

Robbo plays a key forward role has done so for some time. His height is not relevant. Your comment was about good forwards and as he took 5 marks and kick 3 that day from a flogged midfield it would fulifil your statement.

I guess having Neitz and Robbo does not constitute good forwards. The game was a clear example of the MFC midfield being smashed by another midfield.

Perceptive post Dr Drake. Our midfield issues are even more beguiling when you consider that against Richmond and Carlton we won the centre bounces but lost the clearances.

White was lack lustre in his one year performance at Freo. Hardly a great talent. Jolly is a pedestrian tap ruckman at best in a disciplined capable side. He is no loss. Simmonds went when we brought on Jolly. Petrie has had one good game (quarter) recently. Up to then he had been pedestrian. Hale (#7 in 2001) and MacIntosh (#9 in 2002) were first round picks which have taken 5 to 6 years to come good. PJ was #24 in 2002 and has missed about 2 seasons of AFL since through injury. Jamar was a rookie. Hardly in the same calibre of the Kanga pair. And by taking those ruckman with first rounders they have denied themselves elsewhere in the list.

Jeff White came to us in 1998 with only one year of AFL under his bet. Darren Jolly and Troy Simmonds comes to mind too. Richmond has develop neither. Carlton have not developed a ruckman. Sydney paid bags of gold in draft picks to get Hall and Jolly and Everitt. Hawks had had to crash and burn to develop either and they have just started. Kangas have not got a name forward and have only started to develop a ruck. Essendon has not been tested for a forward and are still battling the ruck issue. They are just a few. Neither spot is easy to fill. P.S. I suggest you tone you manner down to other posters. You are becoming the epitome of what you criticise. Be careful.

Sorry, it just different to what you said here: "Instead of starting the process a couple of years ago the club has waited for Neitz to be on the verge of retiring..." The recruitments of the players I mentioned were to address that. Toss in Miller too. I actually see Newton, Bate, Rivers and Frawley as a reasonable spine going forward.

The process started long ago...We recruited Molan, Breese, Rogers and Smith and all were failures.

I agree about the Carroll situation but I would prefer Warnock to Ferg. I dont see Holland competing against the total long line of defenders. With Miller yes and possibly Ferg. Within the next 12 months i would like to see Frawley overtake Miller and Holland in the KPB. ATM, I think Holland is in front of Miller but we have to see what we can get out of Miller up back in the next couple of weeks.

This will all be just another storm in a teacup. And if it seriously impinges on whether we were to get Voss or not then its clear we were not certain on him anyway. As much as I admire Voss as a player and certainly a prospect as a Coach I have to wonder: 1. Why he would socialise with a couple of public neanderthals like Lawrence and Gehrig? (I understand the the historical connection with the players). 2. Why he did not just walk away from the whole situation and show some maturity? 3. How he expects to impose the strong "Brisbane" team ethics and rules of behaviour on players in a side like MFC when he has demonstrated some stunningly poor form himself amongst the general public? Like I said its a storm in a teacup but I wonder...

Agree Jaded. Regarding Jamar, on the contrary. I would "rest" White and run Jamar and see what he can give. This is the best practice match conditions for the next 8 weeks, lets use them wisely.

If he cannot make sustain a near fully fit 2008, then Beamer's future is clouded. He has already had two years out of football.

No I am sure it will be about Godfrey being labelled the most ordinary footballer to play 300 games of AFL! B)

I think that hits the nail on the head, Nozz.

All the more reason for you to enlighten us. Now come on, how do you value players?

Good read Scoop. Sage comments about Sylvia indeed.