Ash35

If the Bombers kept their receipts, and logs of who got what, maybe they wouldn't be in this trouble, or maybe they still would be... The fact is the club doesn't seem to know, which means that ASADA cannot let them off - if all you have to do is lose the logbook and the receipts to escape punishment - it would be a ridiculous system.

Taking your medicine is done when the other avenue is worse - your club has been driving down the other avenue for a couple of years now.

There may be no manual for this, but there is common sense, and it has been in short supply down at the Airport of late - plenty of arrogance, hubris, and delay but little care for their players, their fans and the game itself.

Melbourne rolled over like a puppy dog during its recent episode of 'tanking' shenanigans. There was a time when I was envious of how Essendon fought back against the tide of AFL fisthammery but I knew why we did roll - for our own good.

Sometimes you have got to suck it up, admit what you didn't do and move on.

I can't disagree with a lot of this.

But I can also see why Essendon have done some of things we have done over the past couple of years.

Not all of them, but some of the things.

To say the whole thing has been messy is an understatement.

Seriously mate, me, like the entire football public, just wants it wrapped up ASAP.

I don't control the club and what they do, I just barrack for them.

Ash - if your club hadn't wasted the last x months with that stupid court case, maybe it would have been.

The last 3 months perhaps.

My time line may be shaky.

ASADA took 18 months to issue Show Cause notices.

Please don't think I am defending what Essendon did.

Or the court cases, or a lot of what the club has done.

But you guys don't seem to understand that the club firmly believes the supplements they gave the players were not illegal.

I don't know if they were or not, and you guys don't know if they were or not.

But you guys hope they were illegal so you can dance on our grave.

Not in denial mate, just want the thing wrapped up as soon as possible.

If it is so clear cut as everyone here seems to think, why have ASADA taken so long to prosecute?

I can only form an opinion on what I know and have been told.

ASADA would have gone through the club top to bottom, and interviewed everyone that needs to be spoken to [except Dank].

Essendon would have the exact same info ASADA have.

Essendon have clearly and consistently said they don't believe they gave the player illegal drugs.

ASADA have issued show cause notices on the evidence they have, but refuse to tell anyone what that evidence is.

One of them has the bull by the tail.

You obviously hope and think it's Essendon, I obviously hope it isn't.

Ash...you do understand your club committed some major wrongs ?

Its done them and seemingly wished to be treated almost in the 3rd person wrt to it all.

Its plainly incongruous for this to be tackled in this manner.

beelzebub...you do understand my club didn't play finals in 2013 even though we qualified,

and was fined $2 mil,

and were stripped of draft picks that has been well and truly covered in this thread.

But as I keep saying, the Essendon haters want us to suffer, and suffer, and then suffer some more.

Perhaps we should be banned from the next 5 drafts.

Each club can come and pick one player from our list and take them for nothing.

What else do you suggest so we get our right whack?

pack us off to play VFL for the next few years?

That might cause a problem or two for your club.

Cos that would leave a 17 team comp. TV rights are for 9 games a week.

So less TV rights money means less of a hand out to the Dees.

Might not be able to afford Roosy and Peter Jackson afterall.

Mate, I know what we did was wrong.

No one actually knows, perhaps apart from Dank, what we gave the players, which is a disgrace.

And the AFL nailed us for that.

But how much more flesh do you want.

If ASAGA have evidence, finally come forward and provide it.

Lets put this thing to bed.

Either prove the club gave the players illegal drugs or boot off.

Dish out some penalties if you have evidence, or wrap it up.

Oh, so the sky isn't falling?

Everyone can unknot their knickers then.

Back to pick 17 and steak knifes.

The last time I looked Essendon were supposed to be getting penalised. Part of that was NO first round pick. Here we see it being possibly gifted back and alls good !! Wtf

Yes, we had our first and second picks stripped last year and this year.

We were given a pick at the end of the first round this year.

Lost 4 picks, and got 1 pick back.

But the parameters of the penalty allows us to trade back into the first or second round of the draft, or receive compensation in either round.

ie Crameri for Bulldogs pick 26 last year.

Part of the punishment is that each team get their picks as per their ladder position.

We didn't.

So if we did receive a compo pick for Ryder, it will pick 21, not pick 13.

I've been wanting a "ripping of the band aid" for a while now.

Hird needs to go, and I was bemused he wasn't sacked last week/Monday.

I understand how uninviting our club looks right now for prospective players.

Mind you, Gold Coast don't have a coach, yet have been able to lure Nick Malceski, so I don't think the coaching situation is the main reason players are staying away.

Yes, there is uncertainty, and looming penalties are an issue.

My information is that any penalties, and that's IF any penalties are given, there is no way the full 2 year ban will be given without a positive test.

It will more likely be 6-12 months.

Whether served in-season or off-season is also up for debate.

So even if we write off 2015 for any type of success for the Essendon FC, from 2016 things are back to "normal".

There are teams in the AFL that face the same fate.

St Kilda for example are no chance of playing finals in 2015.

Yet a Tim Membrey for example wants to go there.

It's very frustrating as a supporter that this saga is costing us the chance to recruit players.

This is a very unique situation.

It hasn't happened before in the AFL.

It's quite easy for any one affiliated with one of the other 17 clubs to say "C'mon Essendon, hurry up and take your punishment, lets get on with it".

But I firmly believe that Essendon believe they haven't given the players performance enhancing drugs.

So why would they "take their medicine" and roll over.

They, like everyone else who thinks they're innocent, are fighting tooth and nail.

Yes it's annoying for the rest of the football public.

It's annoying for me that this saga has dragged on and no real sign of it's conclusion.

And I think at times James Hird has put his own self interests ahead of the clubs.

But there is no manual for this, it's never happened before.

Hopefully it never happens again.

No abuse necessary Ash (in fact you've taken an admirable approach to what Dank, Hird, Little etc have put you and your fellow supporters through).

Given the circumstances which have to factor in that he is going to get a holiday at the behest of ASADA/AFL/WADA/CAS, Ryder is probably worth the trade Port Adelaide offered Essendon i.e. pick 17.

The thing that's causing the annoyance is that the two clubs and the AFL have colluded together to enable the deal to go ahead and give Essendon a massive bonus in what can only be described as draft tampering.

It would also set a poor precedent for other clubs to follow with further rorting in the future with the same or similar schemes which would, in the end, make the system totally unworkable.

Obviously I'm looking at it from the Essendon point of view.

While I understand people here being upset that Essendon might gain pick 21 extra, the real winners are Port Adelaide.

They get Ryder locked away, with no hassles or tribunal hearings, for pick 17.

O'Rourke went to Hawthorn this morning for what was essentially pick 19.

As good as the kid may or may not turn out to be, right now, Ryder is far and away a more valuable player to Port Adelaide and their premiership chances than O'Rourke is to Hawthorn.

So to get him for pick 17, what a win for them.

Lucifer's Hero, why exactly do you think the AFL want to "scam" Essendon into the first round of the draft?

I think you'll find, as I said earlier, their main goal is to keep this case out of any court or tribunal hearing.

Doesn't make what they are doing right, but since when has the AFL not done anything that suits their agenda.

I don't want people to think I was bagging out Melbourne in my response.

I was quoting how a lot of the football public view Melbourne.

I think most of you know I have a soft spot for the Dees.

You are right rpfc, there is no easy way out.

I mentioned in another post that I am preparing for a stretch similar to Carltons after their salary cap breaches in the early 2000's.

It's hard atm, everyone wants to see Essendon suffer, and suffer, and then suffer some more.

James Hird has disappointed me.

In fact that is an understatement.

A lot of people have done a lot of things wrong, and no one from Essendon, the AFL or anywhere want to own up to it.

It's very frustrating.

Still, I have no control over it.

I'm just a supporter who is enjoying the sport I loved less and less by the week.

Having said all of that, this current Ryder/FA voiding contract issue, I agree with a lot of what is said here.

It's dangerous. The whole breaching duty of care clause is dangerous.

Where does it stop.

What is Jack Trengrove says he was mismanaged by the Melbourne doctors with his injury, which in his mind is a breach of duty of care, and wants to walk away from the club for nothing.

I really think it's a can of worms the AFL don't want opened.

So while people are going nuts over Essendon getting pick 21, keeping this case out of the grievance tribunal might be doing every club a favour.

And I took you for a reasoned person...seriously

17 and 36...for Ryder,,,,,thats larceny

What ever it is theyre smoking up there on the hill you need to move away.

Have Essendon nexed the idea ? I dont know. They could come out and say such . Have they.

Ash.. I , despite much rhetoric, feel for the genuine club supporter, no matter what team they follow, especially when a club goes rogue as yours surely has.

Nothing your club has done /is doing is noble. Despicable comes to mind

You don't think Ryder is worth 17 and 36?

Can I ask what you think he is worth?

People seem to think because of this drug saga, we don't deserve to be treated fairly at the trade table.

It's not how it works.

You do realise that most AFL supporters outside the bubble that is Demonland think that pick 3 for Frawley is a joke.

Why reward Melbourne for incompetence at the draft, developing players, and just in general being a poor on-field club is what they are saying.

Pick 19 for Franklin they are saying,pick 15 or whatever for Ablett they are saying.

I know how the FA compensation works, so I understand why you ended up with pick 3.

Essendon had governance issues. Paddy Ryder wants to leave because of it.

Melbourne has had a very poorly run football department for many years, James Frawley wanted to leave because of it.

Essendon has been punished by the AFL for our governance issues.

The harshest penalties ever given to a club by the AFL.

It was deserved.

If people have issues with this current Ryder scenario, that's ok.

But don't pull out the whole "I hate Essendon, those scumbags deserve nothing for Ryder", because those people aren't looking at it properly.

If you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the AFL for allowing it.

But I can assure you, they are doing whatever they can to make sure this case does not end up in court or any grievance tribunal.

I didn't return here to get caught up in debates about trades, Essendon drugs scandals and alike.

I know 95% of people on here hate my club, and you all must be loving the turmoil we are going through at the moment.

I can't defend what my club did.

Football has not been enjoyable for 2 years now.

Happy for people to hate us.

Call us drug cheats if you want.

But no one blames Melbourne for getting pick 3 for Frawley.

So why blame Essendon if we can get pick 21 extra for Ryder?

I'll just go away now and prepare for the abuse I cop for this post.

I just read the article this may be good for port & the bummers, but its bad for the others teams following those picks. it moves everyone down 2 spots for the one deal.... why so port don't have to give up a player with a pick?

How do other teams move down 2 spots?

As far as I can tell, IF this goes through, there is only one pick that gets pulled out of thin air, pick 21, that Essendon get for Ryder leaving as a "free agent".

two to tango my friend

Cleary it's driven by Port.

Yes, Essendon will have to play their part by terminating Ryders contract, but that hasn't happened yet, so all anger directed at Essendon is unwarranted I would have thought until it happens, if in fact it does.

Seriously, at this stage I would settle for picks 17 and 36 [what ever Ports first 2 picks are] for Ryder, but if this new scenario does play out, and we can get picks 17 and 21 instead, of course I would take it.

But it's a long way off happening.

I think you'll find Port Adelaide are driving this one.

Not entirely sure Essendon are keen to do it.

But I guess it's easy to run with "typical Essendon" at a time like this.

My fav clip is the baulk and then bullet pass lace out against the Pies at Vic Park at about 2.21 in the video.

How many goals do you think Robbie would have kicked if he had a career as a permanent full forward?

We would have sacrificed the graceful 5 bounce runs down the wing of course, but with his pack marking ability, judgment of the ball in the air, and sublime skills below his knees if the ball was on the ground, I could see his goal tally doubling over his career.

As it was, 315 goals in 272 games from predominately a wingman is an outstanding career.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B24lAhdbYds

Robert Flower Tribute

Just something I put together over the past couple of nights.

Hope it brings back some great memories, or for the younger fans, does justice to how good this bloke was as a player.

Good to hear from you Craig and hope all's well in the world with you.

(Could I suggest however, that you don't read the Essendon redacted thread - not good for one's health)

Cheers

Things could be better for me when it comes to the wonderful world of AFL, but other than that, I'm good mate.

I hardly read anything about the "saga" these days.

Every journalist has taken a side, every one has an agenda.

It's very hard to get information without a particular slant on it.

So no disrespect, but I never intended to read the thread here as I can imagine what is being said.

No one actually knows what is going on, strange decisions are being made, and no party, not Essendon, not ASADA, and not the AFL are coming out of this looking good.

What will happen will happen, but I'm preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best.

Unfortunately though I can sense a 10 year like stretch for Essendon similar to that of Carlton after the Salary cap scandal in the early 2000's.

Our financial position is weakening by the week, players are leaving, no player wants to come to play for us.

Draft penalties, and who knows what suspensions, if any, will be handed to the players, and what then will come of that.

On a different topic, my Robert Flower highlights "library" has grown quite a bit in the past few years.

I'm always on the look out for footage of the great man.

I will post a musical highlights tribute video hopefully tomorrow on Youtube, but if anyone has any ideas of another Robbie video, I'm open to suggestions.

Maybe his top 10 goals, or top 10 marks, or both.

Like everyone, I was upset when Jim Stynes passed, but I was devastated when I heard the news last week.

RIP Robbie

Robert Flower was my favourite non Essendon of all time.

You couldn't help but admire him and his football ability.

I put that DVD together years ago, and with Mark's help, put it on DVD for everyone.

I'm glad it's on Youtube, I want as many people to see how good Flower was.

I will be uploading my latest tribute to Robbie tomorrow on Youtube and will post a link here.

Jack, I've been looking for footage of that Windy Hill goal since you told me about years back.

Still haven't found it, but would give anything to see it if there is footage of it.

If Seinfeld is right, I will never see it.

Hope all my old friends at Demonland are well.

Craig

Wow, we made 6 changes for that game. Ordinary stuff.

I dont like looking back on the Knights era, but my memories of that game is Essendon kicking poorly in the first 3 quarters, but getting some late goals when the game was over to add some "respectability" to the scoreline, and Melbourne getting what seemed to be countless 50m penalties [possibly only 4 or 5 to be honest].

All in all the Demons smashed us that day, but the final margin wasn't a true indicator of Melbournes dominance.

I can't see Melbourne kicking a winning score.

And I back up the thoughts of Demon4Life, re Gawn. Wasn't he playing Casey seconds a few weeks back?

Good luck against Bellchambers, Hille and Ryder. But then again, he is probably a better back up to Martin than Newton.

Perhaps the criticism dished out by Mitch Robinson might fire Melbourne up. You do play the MCG well, and if Hurley and in particular Watson are still missing, Melbourne aren't without a chance.

But I would think Essendon would be pretty upset if they don't take the four points.

Provided Jamar is still out for that game, which is likely, at the very least it evens up that ledger.

Fremantle have suffered a major blow, losing star ruckman AARON

SANDILANDS for the next four weeks with a toe injury.

The AFL's best ruckman suffered the injury to his left big toe

during Saturday's 52-point win over Port Adelaide at AAMI Stadium.

SANDILANDS won't need need surgery, but must wear a moon boot to

cushion the injury for the next fortnight.

Freos next 4 weeks :

vs St Kilda [PS]

vs Hawthorn [MCG]

vs Essendon [PS]

vs Melbourne [MCG]

Massive loss for a team already crippled by injuries.

Mark Le Cras

Matthew Pavlich

Paul Chapman

Dean Cox

Chris Judd

You can actually build a case for all three.

Most teams have struggled after the bye, so Essendon might be there for the taking, especially if Watson and Hurley are still out.

If Judd is missing for Carlton it will help Melbournes cause.

As badly as Melbourne seem to match up against Essendon, the Dees go extremly well against the Pies. Collingwood looked disinterested at times yesterday and are far from unstoppable.

I agree that if you have struggled against the likes of North Melbourne and St kilda in recent weeks, winning any of your next 3 are unlikely, but football always throws up some upsets along the way.

It might seem it, but it wasn't that long ago that you beat Adelaide by 96 points. A return to the MCG might be the tonic.

my girlfriend just asked me if hawkins would get rubbed out for high contact on that collingwood player.

i dont know how to answer this

Pretty simple.

No, cos Hawkins was going for the ball and Toovey was the one who instigated contact by going back with he flight of the ball.

You wish! I wouldn't worry though Jamar out hurts us enough as it is.

Ahhhh no, that thought didn't even cross my mind. Didn't realise we were playing you guys in 4 weeks time.

I'm more than happy for young Jack to play, and for the record, 3 weeks was extremely excessive in my view.

My question was a genuine one. And as explained, if it's only money that Melbourne stand to lose, I would definitely be appealing the decision.

I was amazed Leigh Montagna excepted his one match ban, but that's another story all together.