Ted Lasso

He's played 16 games, and wasn't slow in juniors so clearly something has caused that since then, Wines has had one good year, plenty of players have done that and gone missing far too early to tell on either count.

He already has, our disposal, contested posessions, tackles, and inside 50's have all improved out of sight, we finally have some sort of structure and plan we are building towards although the forwards being down doesn't help that

I actually reckon Lynden Dunn would be a smokey

I'd say there are far worse.. Dangerfield, Sloane, Martin, Rockliff, RIoli, Taylor, Brodie Grundy is a far better asset than Ollie Wines and we passed him

you're guessing he will be average at best based on him having no pace... you have no idea if Toumpas will be tearing teams apart with his pin point kicks in the future we are only guessing here, Wines is better by a long way, for now, toumpas deserves the chance to prove everyone wrong.

But that's not what i am arguing at all, Wines might be a superstar for the next 10 years, i am saying noone should be writing Toumpas off after 16 games, he has not had anything like a fair chance to show us anything yet, we have plenty of drafting mistakes that i think will prove far worse than this one.

He's a good player, there is no doubt about that, that's not what the arguement is about, i am saying that 16 games into his career, people want to delist Toumpas, it's insane, the kid isn't doing that badly, it's the stupid comparisons to Wines that cloud judgements, personally i don't give a flying [censored] what Wines does or is, he plays for Port Adelaide, because Tood Viney as far as we know made a very educated decision to overlook him ( rumours aside ) and we have Toumpas.

there is a bigger picture than one player, even if we took Wines we'd still be a terrible team, it's alot easier to do what he's doing with Boak, Hartlett, Kornes, Wingard around you in a team that's winning more often than not. put him in our side and year we are slightly better right now, knowing our luck Toumpas would be dominating for the dogs because they said there was no way he was getting past pick 5, it's really irrelevant, we have Toumpas, i think 16 games is too soon to make a judgement considering the state of the team and the club, clearly some people expect instant results or there is no point even drafting players, that's their choice.

So, if you aren't getting best on grounds after 16 games you should be shown the door? righto then...

and you think Ollie Wines instead of Toumpas would make any difference to where we are right now? you're kidding yourself, like it or not we are in for more waiting and it's going to be another 3 years before we can really compare the two players with any sort of idea that's more than a guess.

Exactly the same as you saying Toumpas won't get better, he is averaging 17 touches, 3 tackles and a goal in one of the worst teams of all time give him the support Port get and you could add 20% at least to that, 20 touches, 4 tackles and a goal is a decent return for a 16 gamer, especially when his disposal is as good as it is.

That's exactly the point, we make him our messiah, he has played 16 games in possibly the worst team of all time and he's doing okay.

And Ollie Wines wouldn't be making anywhere near the same impact if he played for us.

some very good players had remarkably similar stats and criticisms to Toumpas in his first three years Cotchin Swan Hodge Ablett Toumpas 1st 16.4 disposals 9.0 disposals 15.5 disposals 8.3 disposals 12.0 disposals 2nd 17.7 disposals 13.2 disposals 12.9 disposals 14.9 disposals 17.7 disposals 3rd 19.5 disposals 16.7 disposals 15.7 disposals 14.3 disposals Ablett, Cotchin and Swan were all accused of being soft, Jimmy Toumpas is doing fine.

And the disastrous Jimmy Toumpas has kicked 20% of our goals

second coming of Simon Black this kid.

Just because you aren't happy with his first season and two games doesn't make that so. many a good player took time to develop, we were never going to be a premiership threat for that amount of time anyway and all indications where Toumpas was and is a star in the making, I'd say giving a player 5 seasons is a fair amount of time to make an assessment of what they are going to do, not 16 games which is what Toumpas has played... you are writing a kid off after 16 games..

Not really considering he was clearly the second best prospect in the draft for the entire season, captain of his state, had been playing and playing well in senior footy premierships the two years prior to being drafted and contrasted perfectly with Jack Viney in terms of us getting a quality inside and outside player the only absurd thing in all of this is the insane expectations of some of our supporters, i'm sure Jimmy would look alot better in Ports side, and Wines wouldn't look nearly as good in our side, either way we'd think we had made the wrong call, it's the nature of a club in our position.

He was alot quicker than this early on, i'd say the hip surgery has made him lose some of that, maybe needs a running coach

Plenty of good slow players out there, i'm very confident his skills and game sense will be all he needs to be a dangerous player for us

He does have a long way to go, but so do most second year players, he is getting the speed at AFL, we have seen he has some weapons, his skills, decision making and hard running, his contested ball i think will naturally come along

Absolutely no reason a player couldn't complete year 11 and 12 at the teams expense, i think you'll find alot of players do.

I reckon they should be drafted at 16 and have the opportunity to develop at the club for 2 years, this would help players settle into the AFL lifestyle and allow them to develop in an elite organisation

1. Jesse Hogan - Keep 2. Nathan Jones -Keep 3. Christian Salem - Keep 4. Jack Watts - Keep 5. Jimmy Toumpas - Keep 6. Chris Dawes - keep if fit 7. Jack Viney - Keep 8. James Frawley - Will leave as a free agent. 9. Jack Trengove - Trade 11. Mitch Clark - Will request trade to Freo or retire. 12. Dom Tyson - Keep 13. Jordie McKenzie - Trade 14. Lynden Dunn - Keep 18. Daniel Cross - Offer one year as playing assistant coach? 20. Colin Garland - Keep 23. Bernie Vince - Keep 25. Tom McDonald - Keep 31. Jack Grimes - Keep 15. Mitch Clisby - Depth Player 19. James Strauss - Depth Player 22. Viv Michie - Keep 24. Jay Kennedy-Harris - Keep 27. Aiden Riley - Too early 29. Jayden Hunt - Too early 32. Michael Evans - Depth player 33. Dom Barry - Delist at end of year 37. Max Gawn - Keep 38. Jeremy Howe - Keep 42. Jake Spencer - Delist 48. Jack Fitzpatrick - Trade 10. Shannon Byrnes - will retire 16. Dean Kent - Keep for 1 more year, showed abit last year. 17. Sam Blease - Trade, 5 years and still can't cement a spot 21. Cameron Pederson - delist 26. Daniel Nicholson - delist 35. Luke Tapscott - delist 40. Mark Jamar - delist 44. Rohan Bail - delist 45. Matt Jones - one more year 46. Dean Terlich - one more year Rookies: 39. Neville Jetta - gone 41. Alex Georgiou - keep 43. James Harmes - keep 47. Max King - keep we need 20-25 list changes imo

I don't think he did anything like what Neeld did really, he has put the heat on the boys and fair enough, i still think all things considered we are a much improved side, add our three big forwards to that and we may have only lost by 6-7 goals which against a team as good as the eagles and considering where we are at, might have been a solid result.