IRW

McDonald should be moved to CHF, like Neatz, All Australian CHB, was the making of him, McDonald CHF, Hogan FF, doubt if Roos has the flair to see beyond Cross and Lamumba, he has a let's not lose it attitude on the game instead of a let's win it, I won't miss Paul Roos.

Good to see you've kept up with your speling practice on your new site Old coq

Its amazing that its taken 100 games for everyone to agree on his failings and lack of virtues.

His skills arnt that great because he cant produce them under the slightest pressure which is the name of the game in the AFL.

He's a 100 gamer only because the list has sucked for the last 95 games.

THE BIGGEST KNOCK ON HIS WEAKNESSES IS THAT PEOPLE STILL SAY THAT A GANG TACKLE 100 GAMES AGO

RUINED HIS CAREER!!

It wasnt even a particularly heavy tackle.

Geez

When Garry Lyon tries to write about you then you know youre yesterdays news..

The prophets of doom often have the satisfaction of being vindicated - most items in any category of things turn out to be average - it's the statistical bell curve. Isn't the average AFL career around 5 years? So that on the law of averages Watts has done ok so far. Number one draft pick? Everybody thought so at the time; surely time to let that one go. The real question surely is whether or not we will ever get a regular match-winner out of his mix of skills/deficiencies. the impatient anti-Watts crowd are making a lot of noise - but will history prove them right?

Here's my couple of thoughts:

1. Talk about Watts being tough and playing aggressively, even thumping someone, is "begging the question" in that it offers as grounds for dumping him the fact that he isn't the sort of player that he isn't. It amounts to the question "Is a soft player worth anything?" being answered with "no, because he's soft." Robbie Flower wasn't one to hit anyone. Lots of good players aren't. It is at least theoretically possible that a team can have a "soft" player who is still worth a game. Whether Watts is one of them - well, that's the question.

So, what criteria can we think of (other than hitting people, bashing and crashing) that might be grounds for valuing his contribution - when his value is not going to be in terms of "toughness"? What KPI's can we come up with for a player like Watts?

I'd suggest we could look at, for example, things like efficient disposals compared to possessions lost due to his alleged softness; or examples of possession retained through his exceptional skills where we might well have lost possession had a less silky player had the use of the ball - the sort of break-the-game-open things that a Robbie Flower did used to do. The impact of his involvements on momentum in the game. And maybe also we might consider excusing his failing to win or retain possession if tougher players left him unsupported... I'd suggest this is not special pleading, but really just like saying Jetta cannot be expected to outmark Buddy, and so criticising him for failing to do so is just ignoring a fact.

No doubt Roos has his ideas of what to factor into his assessment of Watts, weighing whether his skills outweigh his deficiencies. It seems to me that on Demonland we keep hearing frustrated voices shouting here that Watts has deficiencies - and from my point of view those ventings of frustration must not be taken as the whole of the story... Jetta (or anybody) can still be a good player despite there being things he cannot do. Ditto Watts.

2. We are clearly still trying to work out how to use Watts. Garry Lyon offered his thoughts, and Roos is apparently still trying to nut it out. We have a player with these wonderful skills, but cannot get them into play often enough. For many of us his shortcomings keep obscuring the picture of what he brings to the team. I say there is a need - on here, at Demonland - for a more carefully weighed evaluation of what Watts offers.

It reminds me of Churchill, the First Lord of the Admiralty who dreamed up that absolute lunacy the Allied attack on Gallipoli in 1915. In fact, everything he did in politics was a fiasco until he became Prime Minister, replacing the insipid Chamberlain in the desperate days of the Blitz, and then Churchill eventually astonished his critics by becoming unmistakably the greatest of all British Prime Ministers. They finally had him in the job where his excellences were exactly what was needed; and his undoubted peculiarities and poor judgment simply didn't matter. Or Abraham Lincoln - a loose cannon personally and no fiscal manager, took the country through a most destructive civil war, but he abolished slavery. Great things can be done by people with great talents, despite their very-evident failings - if you can put them into the position to use their skills. If the times call for those particular skills.

Remember Norm Smith taking his old mate's boy who couldn't quite cut it, and creating the new ruck-rover position for him. Barassi had some excellences and some shortcomings - but the right fit unleashed all his good points and he became a superstar. Until we really have worked out where Watts ought to be played to maximise his undoubted skills, and to minimise the effect of his weaknesses, we haven't made use of him properly; and we won't really know. While there is no clarity about his proper role - and I think it is clear enough that there isn't yet - I think we have to hold back from passing judgment.

It is fascinating watching. Tantalising, seeing his first game last year, his first game this year - and then having him not kick on. Of course we'd like to see him grow stronger, with a more obviously competitive nature. But meantime, there are star qualities in there! All the Watts-hating on here is disappointing, because it ignores the real issue. What I want to see is the right fit; then and only then will we be able to gauge his value.

Until Roos gives him a settled position, and then either lets him and his team-mates grow into his playing that position, or else discards him as a failure in that position - I'd prefer to wait. I think I trust Roos to get it right in the end. Meantime I'm disappointed repeatedly, but still live in hope. Loving it when Watts deservedly gets named in the best. I still think that on skill - vision, hands, kicking, coolness - he is an outstanding talent. Such an amiable and patient person too - I wish it was easier to have the same qualities when watching him play for us!

Firstly "begging the question" is a term from logic which means the argument is not proved because the premise carries the conclusion...as in there is a God because the Bible says so!

But more importantly stop saying that Jack Watts has magnificent skills when they are in reality only good AFL standard on game day.

He drops marks regularly, not only when under pressure, and his kicks go astray when there is the slightest implied pressure.

What he has is good skills with a very balanced and classical execution......so what?

He could retire and make a good living out of coaching public school boy footballers how to play the game correctly.

Kent missed a couple of easy, set shots.....would have put us 40 odd points up.

In stronger teams, he'd get dropped for that.

yep but MFC isnt a stronger side ...he got it six times or thereabouts up forward in the first quarter. Teaching him to kick is easier than teaching Dawes to mark I reckon

Actually I remember them as "should gets" not "easy"

Kent was good in the first and so were MFC ..so he stays.

Dawes has been dropping marks since he was a Pie,its not going to change,he's big and runs around ..has to stay

JKH should never have been dropped from a slow team...he's in

Howe has promised for.... how many seasons now(?) and he's still a highlight reel when he can be bothered...OUT

One change assuming no injuries....but maybe Pederson for Frost(?)

Give them a chance and make the two's earn their spot.

Watts sweeps behind the ball

Lift lift !!! Watts still needs to stand tougher

GWS. Goal ..damn!

Holding them without much from Jones or H. Need a couple of goals to kill it. Premiership quarter

Is there a wind advantage?

Not since Sheedy shut his mouth and went back to the cheats

26....2 1st quarter...sweet

Hogan! Mind you GWS are [censored] even without Sheedy

I really like Trengove and hope he makes a full recovery and plays his entire career at this club.

But he is so bloody boring in his interviews - he speaks too slowly. I find it painful to listen to.

Not as slowly as he runs,surely his comeback gets down to that and nothing more.

Get some speed across the ground and he's good to go.

No doubt MFC need players who are INTERESTING( rather than beige) to front the press....Jack isnt one of them ...neither is Jack!...though Todds boy has attitude!

Something makes me think that there is more to the sledging (wasn't about depression), or it's being blown out of proportion because Selwood was on the show and Barrett wanted to see how far he could go with it. I can't see the Hawk players blatantly giving him curry about his struggle with depression as, surely, that's a no go zone.

My 2nd hand mail from a mate who runs a cafe sometimes frequented by MFC players reckons that a player(unnamed) from a Club (unnamed) put the view that, around the traps of AFL. Mitch's behavior and actions are seen as "just not right".

Of course when one is struggling mentally then ,by definition, one makes bad choices.

That's Mitch's 'out'.

Of course If one is a smug tool like Barrett or Newman then one doesnt even realise that one is struggling mentally

If he ,and the club, havnt worked out that he's too slow and cant kick by now then its unrealistic to think that, unlike Jones, he's going to get much better with experience

If anything since his first game when it was line ball between him and Wines as to who deserved the Rising Star he's got worse!

I noticed that too. Needs to get cleverer indeed

or transfer to Rugby League

Disagree completely NB that 5 seconds costs us opportunities all the time Needs a greater sence or urgency and most of his disposals are backwards or sideways anyway!

Yep I'd like someone to remind me of a Watts disposal that actually achieved something decisive.

Often,if he gets the ball 10 metres in space, he sends it on very nicely to someone else to do something with, but rarely if ever, does he find an option that is rolled gold and results in a score.

All of which are outnumbered by his near miss hand passes because someone was about to lay a hand on him.

I used to think I was obsessively hard on him,now I cant believe how much his tyres get pumped up by some supporters.

Elite disposal....my aaarse. elite disposal brings results!!!!

Ha, I for one was always deeply offended by the real Rolf because he was always creepy beyond belief in my mind, though I always assumed it was a young boy thing.

Deeply offended by the dress ups? Hardly,... but deeply concerned and amazed at their stupidity.

I haven't posted on Demonology for 4 or 5 years and you still want to blame for your failings.

Interesting that; I didn't do the walk to the G this year because I took my wife and she didn't want to get her there too early. Not sure who you were talking too.

Sorry Robbie I thought I'd replied to you yesterday...It was at least 2 or maybe 3 years ago and just in passing at that. No biggy. Why dont we just leave the past to Ology and press on.?

I'm away pretty much until next season anyway and dont imagine I'll be doing much here but read others posts and I do enjoy your thoughts about MFC.

. I seem to have less time to indulge in retirement. than I had when WE argued

I haven't posted on Demonology for 4 or 5 years and you still want to blame for your failings.

Interesting that; I didn't do the walk to the G this year because I took my wife and she didn't want to get her there too early. Not sure who you were talking too.

Not necessarily this year Robbie and I remember you getting into a blue over the early contract extension for Bailey(I didnt post on that at all and thought you were being unfairly attacked for a reasonable point of view...probably because of your General Board attitude)..you announced you were "off"and you never returned

You have been blaming me and HHNF ("the other one" ) ever since.

A bit sad really.

.

I've only have a look at Ology from time to time, maybe once a month sometimes two and it seems that it just a battle between IRW and HHNF with both of them trading insults and vitriol. If they cleaned that up I'm sure others would come back to the site; perhaps that's the idea. Every second post is from IRW and fills nearly half a page and HHNF's responses seem to be in shorthand and unreadable half the time.

I must say I don't know who Dr Who is and haven't read his posts but from what I've read on Ology he seems universally hated, right up there with Range Rover.

Well you haven't been looking recently Robbie because I have backed right off of late and now I'm gone for the foreseeable future at least

.Anyway its a pity that's all you have to offer the site to which you contributed so much good footy insight

.

In my experience it was actually your provocative posting and inflexibility ("I know what I think and I dont have anything to learn from anyone who disagrees with me")that caused most of the blues on the General Board though I doubt you have the imagination to realise or admit this.

But the last jokes actually on you my friend...we had quite a friendly exchange at the Walk to the G...you white haired old giraffe...I guess no one told you that you were talking to IRW.

Go well and be happy my friend..The world is full of all types......,thats its charm

If a GC rider falls off the back tonight he could lose 15 minutes.

Equally Cadel or Andy Schleck could ride themselves back into the race.

But Froome,Contador or Quintana are the obvious ones to watch out for assuming a breakaway doesnt get to the foot of the climb with minutes in hand

If a GC rider falls off the back on this climb he could lose 15 minutes.

Equally someone like Cadel or Andy Schleck could ride themselves back into the race tonight.

But Quintana,Froome and Contador will be the obvious one to watch out for

Jackson and the AFL are helping us to assemble our Board.

I trust their ideas on that more than the will of Demonland.

No offence everybody.

No Freeman came on via leadboots McClardy before Jackson started taking action if I remember the timeline correctly.

Well that is about the most lunatic and unimpressive offering from a potential leader I've ever heard.

Its like Churchill coming out after Dunkirk and predicting the date for D.Day.

Two days ago he was off to France and hadnt made up his mind...now this and he still hasnt committed

Geez I hope Neita ,Hopgood and Leoncelli get Kelaher into the mix and shake the joint up even more.

I think they might have made a mockery of Kingy's fascinating analysis. They started winning the clearances and got back on top. Let's see what happens from here.

exactly..... perhaps it proves King is a [censored] trying to create a niche for himself.

Pretty clearly what it all means is if you arn't winning the ruck contests or the clearances then you can still get the ball forward if you take possession anywhere and keep it.

duh...

Geelong are good at that despite having Jared in defense with a kicking efficiency about 10% below the AFL average.

More relevant is their ability to keep possession under presssure by knowing a handpass will find a recipient