Undeeterred

29 minutes ago, ProDee said:

As mug supporters we really don't know, but in my view he doesn't deserve the coin that Rance and Talia of Adelaide are on, or other All-Australian key defenders.  Anyone know what they're earning ?

What are the Hawks paying Frawley ?  $550K ?  I know he's different in that he went for success and not coin, but on the surface $700K seems well over the odds for Tom McDonald.  Well it does to me.

I completely agree with all of this, but there's so little transparency around pay that it's hard to make judgments. And that's not to say I think salaries should be published either - in the end, why should the public know what football players earn?

It almost doesn't matter what they're on, because it's a free market in the end. Whether Tom McDonald is worth whatever he ends up getting paid is essentially irrelevant, because he's a young, solid, KPD and there'll be a club out there who has the money to pay for him if he chooses based on money.

It's like what is going on in the NBA this off-season - there are some mind blowing numbers being bandied around for a lot of free agents that are decidedly average, but the fact that there's someone willing to pay those mind blowing amounts sets the market at the right level.

Sounds to me like Tom McDonald is chasing $$, in which case we're either in a position to match, and want to, or we're not!

On 7/18/2016 at 10:24 PM, beelzebub said:

550-600 

Adjusted to new cba

To prompt the next question. Tom can't be paid what ever we ought to pay our top backman.... because he isn't

Sorry, but I just have to call people on picking players salaries like this.

On what basis do you pull that number out of the air as Tom's 'value'? What are you using as comparison? And can you tell me how the new CBA has affected your calculations?

If you can't answer those questions, you're just pulling figures out of your bum, quite frankly.

On 7/18/2016 at 8:34 PM, goodwindees said:

Two pieces of info I found it yesterday is that Dees have a 5 year ofer on the Table for Prestia. I wasn't told how much, just how long. 

I was was also told that Tom Mac wants $700,000 per season.  

That second bit has been in the media for weeks. 

And he'll get it, don't you worry.

9 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Oh i am so concerned 

Satyr thinks i am pathetic

I KNOW you are pathetic. 

Your whole attitude to this club is just weird. 

"It matters but it doesn't matter"

pure Pom attitude...

Mods: why are some posters allowed to throw taunts about being English at someone without consequence? 

It's clearly not being done in a light-hearted way and, despite what many think, it's no different to applying other racial slurs.

1 hour ago, stuie said:

But why should they avoid pressure? They deserve it after Sunday.

I just don't think that excessive pressure creates any positives in a young team, whether deserved or not.

56 minutes ago, stuie said:

 

Not sure if you guys heard him or just read the articles, but when he goes on these rants you can hear how passionate he is about the Dees and I for one relate to his frustration. I honestly don't think he does this for headlines, or at least just for headlines, he is just genuinely wanting us to succeed.

 

The problem is, nobody reads this forum.

But when Schwarz uses his profile to 'blow off steam' as someone else called it, the players and the rest of the football world hear it. It does absolutely nothing for the club except heap pressure on them, so perhaps he should just keep his mouth shut for once.

36 minutes ago, Django said:

Spot on. Youth often means fadeouts, loss of concentration and inconsistency. Bloody frustrating but understandable.

Something that has really stuck with me was what Nathan Jones said last year about the importance of the youngsters understanding momentum shifts and how critical that becomes at crucial parts of a game. Pity he wasn't able to effect any kind of fight back either on Sunday.

Yep. I think the key issues really surround fitness, concentration, and ability to understand the flow of the game and respond to it.

For example, I think when St Kilda really ramped up the pressure on Sunday, we accelerated our tempo as well and it cost us both in the immediate term when we turned the ball over repeatedly, and later in the game when we were exhausted.

We don't have leaders who can impose themselves on the contest to either slow it down and draw the heat out of the game, or break open that up tempo pressure when it is brought against us.

Youth.

1 hour ago, Mach5 said:

I'd say the same about Brayshaw, and to me the more alarming thing is week-to-week selection.

They may not play exactly the same role, but surely ANB has more runs on the board at this stage than Brayshaw?
Even 

To me, a player who has been out of form is a better option than a player who is short of proper match fitness, physically or mentally.

 

This is the point that we're all missing with the selection argument. The FD clearly want to use Brayshaw and VDB because they are better long term prospects, despite the short term pain.

10 minutes ago, stuie said:

You're still missing the point, which has not improved from the very start here. You're wanting to focus on names rather than the cumulative effect on the team.

But hey, if you think the Saints are just a 6 goal better team than us then that's up to you.

 

Last post on this, because it's Monday morning and I've got work to do.

The cumulative effect on the team of having 1-4 of the players set out above is absolutely minimal. You could include Dunn, or Oliver (who when he plays, plays about 65% TOG), or anyone else at Casey in this discussion.

If you think we're above being too stupid to lose to St Kilda, good luck to you. The evidence is to the contrary.

How do you explain the fact that they beat us by practically the same margin earlier in the season, using exactly the same tactics, and preying on exactly the same weaknesses we have? 

I mean, these exchanges have been fun, but it's time to stop before I completely lose my [censored] at you.

10 hours ago, Undeeterred said:

And there it finally is, after about a million posts. We finally get the admission that some combination of Bugg, ANB, Newton and Michie coming in for some combination of outs (I think on the GD thread it was Vince and Kennedy for starters) would have got us a win.

Just first grade nonsense, Stuie.

42 minutes ago, stuie said:

Again, that is not what I said. Please show me where I said all those guys should have come in.

You're fast becoming a farcical poster.

 

When people call out your nonsense, slow down and read the words, Stu, before calling people farcical.

46 minutes ago, Adzman said:

I have been to his defence this season, but that has to be one of the most disappointing performances for a 100th game in recent memory. I'm shattered for him.

I love Jack, and really hoped he could turn it around. That game was his last, he just couldn't rise to the occasion and it will cost him his spot.

This. 

Just such a shame. But he's done. And I've been one of his staunchest defenders recently.

10 minutes ago, monoccular said:

I honestly don't care anymore.  

For the first time in maybe 15 years I did not buy a membership - made that hard decision after the Essendon disgrace, reinforced by Saints #1 capitulation.......etc 

Yet, here you are....

Just now, Nasher said:

I didn't see it that way at all.  I guess we'll see.

Hope so! Maybe looked worse in slow mo.

21 minutes ago, Nasher said:

When have the MRP rubbed anyone out for that?  The one Vince got away with earlier this year was worse.  I reckon the MRP in the present incarnation are generally under-penalising, but that's just gut feel.

Free kick as paid, that's it I reckon.

He did take a bit of a wind up, unfortunately. Wasn't really just shrugging him off - it was a very frustrated, pre-mediated high elbow to the head.

8 minutes ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

Yep, he can find the ball if he's allowed to play loose, as they let him do in the first. As soon as they manned him up, he basically barely touched it.

It's an interesting time in Harmes' development. They obviously think he might be a go at either end of the ground and want to build some flexibility into his game. At the moment it might be a bit early though, because he's a butcher.

I thought he had a real crack today, but seems to run himself into pressure a lot. That was sort of the order of the day though, as after the first quarter their pressure around the ball was enormous.

49 minutes ago, stuie said:

With this game, I feel that the selection failure was enough to tip the balance that we lost.

We SHOULD have won this game.

And there it finally is, after about a million posts. We finally get the admission that some combination of Bugg, ANB, Newton and Michie coming in for some combination of outs (I think on the GD thread it was Vince and Kennedy for starters) would have got us a win.

Just first grade nonsense, Stuie.

4 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

That is the most worrying comment I have heard Roos make.  Lyon hasn't been there for 5 years and only a handful of StK players were coached by him.

It sounds disrespectful to Richardson and Co and I'm really surprised our club chose to put that on twitter. 

Poor form all round.

What they do have is a core team of leaders who are overseeing the transition to the next generation.

I think what he means is that Riewoldt, Montagna, Gilbert etc are true leaders for the young kids, where we just don't have the equivalent leaders to show the young kids coming through how to be successful.

He's a free agent, for the millionth time.

I've been an unabashed fan, but today was it. Such a shame.

He failed to kill the ball too many times in defence, which led to at least two goals that I can think of. Just not strong or fast enough.

11 minutes ago, stuie said:

I'm being silly? Please show me where I said we should swap 22 players...

 

Show me where I said you did.

We could do this all day mate.

11 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Whilst I am opposed to censorship, this thread almost warrants permanent deletion from the site.

Jones is one of the best Captains in the competition. He is a fantastic Demon, a great leader, and he deserves/commands our respect.

And yep - he had a poor game today. Unfortunately he wasn't the only one.

 

I think that runs too far the other way.

I actually don't think Jones is that strong a leader. He certainly frequently goes missing when we need him most. The thread might bug people, but it's a legitimate discussion to have.

Having said that, we're definitely not ready to have Viney take over yet. 

4 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yeah because that's what I said, replace 22 players...

FMD. Getting idiotic around here.

 

People are just highlighting the silliness you are propounding.

3 minutes ago, Die Hard Demon said:

well have to replace all 22 players to avoid the risk of being tired next week 

See, Stu, this is where your ludicrous argument ends up. Ludicrous.

33 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

inept handball is not the issue. We are trying to develop a fast Adelaide Crows style game which is demanding of hand passing accuracy under pressure and takes time to get right and involves mistakes inevitably.

I am putting today down to a Darwin high temperature high humidity hangover. Robbie is right. This was lost partly at selection - not enough fresh legs and too few 'ins'.

But I am really sick of losing to those frauds.

Which changes would you have made? Name some specific players, instead of just blaming the selectors on principle.