Undeeterred

Do we really need him? I mean of course we'd like him, but would our resources be better used on a different kind of player? Clark is bona fide gun, there's no disputing that. His support staff may include Watts, Jurrah, Petterd and as we've learnt this year Garland and/or Rivers. Then there is of course jumpin' Jeremy, for me it is hard to argue he shouldnt be full-forward as his the best contested mark in the universe. Martin and Jamar have both shown effectiveness as resting forwards. Sylvia and Trengove are both midfielders who can play forward with their ability overhead and on the lead. Even Sellar has kicked a few, and Dunn has kicked more than a few, even Bate has. When you throw in one or two of Bennell, Blease and Jetta I have named 17 players that could possibly make up six spots, some of which are rotating. I just wonder if we should be investing in the forward line at all. The defense is pretty good too, specially with young Macdonald coming through, I think we should be going for a classy midfielder if anything. We have an abundance of grunt in there with Moloney, Jones, Sylvia, McKenzie, Magner and soon Viney - but we lack the type that sends laser beams onto the [censored] of Clark the way Yze and Johnstone used to do. I'm not sure who on the list could become that player, I don't think anyone has those skills except Davey in his heyday.

I think we've established that, despite the awesomeness that is Mitch Clark, you need more than one key forward target to get anywhere near success.

Of our current options that you mention:

Watts is best down back.

Jurrah is a good chance of not playing again.

Ricky Bobby is going to GC.

Garland has proven he is a defender.

Howe will be a mid.

Sylvia is a running flanker.

Trengove can't kick a goal from 40 out.

Jamar can't kick at all.

You are left with Martin, Rivers, Sellar, Bate and Dunn as your key forward options.

Yes, we need Cloke.

No need to hang cr@p all over him peeps.

Sort of bloke, if you traded would star at another club. Has all the tools. Gets marked too hard by most Dee supporters.

I can sort of picture him doing the Stuart Dew thing at Hawthorn and jagging them another flag...

Let's be honest. Most of us probably thought 10 goals was about par. The betting line was 50.5 points, so that's a good indication.

When we were that far behind at 3QT, did anybody expect us to kick 8 goals in the last quarter?

Losing sucks, but we are moving in the right direction.

We were never going to win today and anybody who says they were realistically expecting us to is kidding themselves.

Yeah, don't reckon he'd have had 8 tackles too many times before.

As so often, 4 goals to none in the first quarter,when the game is there to be won, turns out to be essentially the final margin...

Actually not a bad result, given the expectations of most of us. We'll do them next year with a full team.

Good on the boys for at least playing the game out.

Could easily have been done by more than 10 goals...

We get on top for a quarter and kick maybe 3 goals to 1, and then St Kilda get the ascendency for 20 minutes and we just roll over and cop something stupid like 8 goals to zilch. Excuse my frech, but [censored] this is pissing me off.

Part of the plan. Go with a good team for a half, to prove we can. But make sure we don't risk draft picks by playing the whole game out and maybe actually winning.

Lol.

Jones, Trengove, Grimes, MacDonald, Rivers, McDonald, Blease, Strass, Jetta, Green and Bate have literally had 1-2 touches each in the third quarter. And Sylvia... Statless after I stuck up for him.

Did they put chains on their legs at half time or something? How do you go from level pegging to 6 goals down in 15 minutes??

Wilkes has been the difference. I never thought I'd ever say that.

You'd think we'd have learnt.

Didn't Beau Wilkes pop up with a few last time we played as well?

Radio just said Melbourne running at 91% efficiency by foot!!?!

Surely they jest...

Good to see Grimes and Trenners getting a lot of it.

Sylvia has 6 tackles to half time. Get off his back.

Sorry to not be as happy as most seem about this. The biggest story in this that I see is that its in the papers. Either its a big leak or its false.

The impact on the player group of a quarter of the list being unwanted will be huge.

Everyone who's saying how good this is ought to think about how they would feel working in an organisation where this was happening in the public eye. We're humiliating the players AGAIN and that cant be good for anything other than taking the heat of Neelds coaching. It disturbs me its in the public arena... Theres a month to go of this season the last time I looked.

The players had no football department to speak for years because we were broke. Thats at least PART of the reason so many have not come on. You disgrace the playing group en masse like this at a cost...I hope we're not digging ourselves a grave.

That's actually a really good point - always good to remember that players are people and the club isn't just swapping footy cards or something.

Didn't see this thread when I posted mine - sorry.

Having said that, Mods, is there any reason my thread was deleted?

Didn't see this thread when I posted mine - sorry.

Does anyone think Watts might be doing a pre-season very early?

I do - wonder how he feels about it.

I reckon they're probably giving him 6 weeks off his ankle, and making him lift weights and eat lots of chicken. He'll be abit more built, and his ankle will be right in October and he'll be ready to run...

Makes sense, I suppose.

We'll have to agree to disagree there.

You are aware that we've only won 30 odd out of past 120 games? Not laying the finger of blame solely on Rivers but fact is we've got a slew of players who are average footballers at best.

We need faster, stronger, more athletic footballers than Jared Rivers.

Fair enough. We disagree entirely.

Watching our absolutely shite team in the last few years, Rivers is one of the few who (1) consistenty beats his player and (2) busts his chops, no matter what, against a constant stream of I-50s. He is a touch slow, I'll admit, but he is probably the best reader of the play in our team, and far better than a below average player who deserves to be swept out this year, as you are suggesting.

I wonder what it is about Mark Neeld that gets up Tonatopia and Hardnut's noses so much. Is it his demeanour? His hairstyle? Do they know a relative of a relative on the list who might not get a new contract?

I wish they'd just be honest and come and say what's really on their minds. They'd gain some respect that way.

You are like that annoying kid in primary school who says 'I know you are, I said you are, but what am I' every time anybody opens their mouth.

And Cook has been droped to Casey 2nds this week.

??

Ouch.

The Revolution rolls on.

Disagree with the love some are showing for Rivers. Being a long-time servant doesn't make you a quality footballer. Just a long serving one.

Time to raise the bar.

But being a quality long serving footballer makes you worth signing.

Rivers is above the bar.

So you're saying instead of setting team rules you would set individual rules ? As long as it doesnt affect your game feel free ?

Again please point to research that shows alcohol and late nights is beneficial to the output of a professional athlete.

(actually one does comes to mind - there is an urban legend that Ian Stewart used to play better when half pi55ed than completely sober - am I defaming a multi-brownlow medalist or has anyone else heard this ?)

It's an interesting question. I hadn't thought as far as the team v individual angle of that question. I'm certainly not saying there is evidence that alcohol helps your performance.

But, I guess what I'm probably saying is that there is an excessive focus on 'rules'. I think that employers generally should have no say and no input into what you do in your private time, provided it doesn't harm your ability to do your job, and isn't illegal.

Football clubs are no different to banks or building companies or retailers or anything else in that sense, they are just employers in the end.

If players turn up drunk, or so fat they can't run, then clearly their performance is being hindered and, in a football context, they will be lining up to get sacked pretty smartly. That argument doesn't hold for Swan.

What better performance could Collingwood possibly ask for? Does anybody really think he'd get 50 touches every week instead of 40 if he went to bed at 10pm every night?

I think its irrelevant that these guys are paid to be professional athletes, when considering their after hours activities.

Firstly, he's not our player, so why do we care what he does? And if he was, then it is the same thing as in any other job - if you perform, then you keep your job.

Clearly, getting on the pi55 doesn't make a pinch of [censored] difference to Swan's 'on-the-job' performance, so who cares what he gets up to???

And to those who say footballers are role models and shouldn't behave like this, I say (1) we probably need to look elsewhere for role models anyway and (2) how many of you can say you never go out for drinks after work?