binman

1 hour ago, Grapeviney said:

I'm torn about tonight's match.

Sure, it would be nice to see the Blues blow a big lead again.

But I'm also keen to see them get thumped from the first bounce, and suffer a humiliating 30-goal loss that sees Voss sacked and many on their list give the game away for good, prompting the club to go into receivership and be banished from the league.

What scenario would you prefer?

10 goals up at half time

Lose by 17 goals.

G'day loyal Demonland Podcast listeners. As you know Andy is away and will miss three games in total - last week and the bombers and lions games.

The process for recording the show, which normally goes out live, is a bit complex and above George and my pay grade - Andy records and mixes the show with a combo of recording software and analog mixing desk, with George and i joining via video link.

The plan was for me to do the Suns (tick), Bombers and Lions games solo whilst Andy is away, with me recording a basic sound file, which i send to Andy who adds the intro and outro and then uploads to the various platforms (which by the by @Demonland is above and beyond given you are on holidays - much respect).

However @george_on_the_outer and have decided to harden up and find a way to record the next two Demonland pods together. I mean how hard can it be?

Why am i telling you this?

Because George and i are going to record the show Sunday morning, which means there'll be bugger all time post game to put questions in this thread, so we thought we'd open it up now for anyone who wants to ask a question for the dees v bombers pod ahead of the game (about the game or more general).

We have some questions already that were posted after i recorded last weeks show, which are relevant for this game too, so i'll kick off this thread with those questions:

@GS_1905 asks:

Haven't jumped into the podcast thread for a while so apologies if this has been asked already but im just a little worried about the development of our young brigade: Windsor, XL, Langford and Tholstrup in particular. Now i know these kids are 2/3 year players and we must temper expectations. But aside from becoming (obviously) solid footballers, are any of these kids likely to be future stars of the comp? If so, who is most likely to break into the top 20 afl players in the future?

@buck_nekkid asks:

What does our best forward line look like? Based on facts? Based on best guess? By the end of the year?

Smaller group used in the centre bounce setup - are we getting to our ‘pure mids’, and the choice who went through was specific (tactical?) to GCS. For example Kolt had zero attendances - so no tags this week.

@Bowserpower asks:

What are the main differences with our forward line this year?

@binman asks:

George have you adjusted your thinking/expectations post our magnificent wins against a benchmark team in the Suns, and starting the season 3-1?

George, speaking of our magnificent wins against the Suns, how pumped were you? Highlights from that game ?

43 minutes ago, Red But Mostly Blue said:

Are we having loading issues... ?? 🤣🤣🤣

(I'll show myself out)

Too early in the season. Wont be able to open Demonland come our bye - which by the by is bizarrely not till round 16!

26 minutes ago, Colm said:

I’m a big Langford fan and have been since from early in his draft year.

I had a punt on him for goals and disposals in the last game as I thought he was coming into good form.

I was a little disappointed with his running back in the last quarter and was surprised to hear @binman say he was in our top 3 defensive runners. I know the knocks on him have been pace but he had a good 2km time trail in his draft year and I thought 2 way running would have been better.

So I watched the second half again and just focused on him. I was clearly a bit biased by my punt but I do think he’s got a bit of work to do in his tank.He went at 67% game time and dovetails very well with Culley. He seems to be able to find an extra bit running forward.

I’d love to see some of his other GPS number to see if I’m wrong. It looked like he was under done or had a niggle in first couple of rounds so perhaps he’s still getting to full fitness.

I actually thought of the Oilly Dempsey comparison when I was watching the second half replay. Worst case he stays in the position he’s in and is a weapon at wing/forward.

Someone told me, and i'm not sure if it's true (though it would make sense given King was the Cats midfield coach - or at least i think he was), that King was behind how the Cats use Dempsey - ie as a tall winger that aims to stretch opposition defences and be a legitimate forward marking option, often pushing all the way to the goal square (a crazy % of his goals have been from the goal square).

Tracks with how King is using Langford and Culley.

1 hour ago, GawnOfTheDead said:

Bombers fans up and about on SEN. they believe they’ll win sunday

Who are they playing on Sunday?

49 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

If I was a gambling man I’d put everything I had on us to beat Essendon knowing that it was a certainty.

I'm a gambling man and i'd seriously recommend NEVER putting everting you have on the dees to win ANY game!

1 minute ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

In a vacuum I reckon he’s been pretty good for GWS this year.

I don’t have the stats to back it up but the 2026 version looks better than the 2025 version and a lot better than the unfit 2024 edition.

However (right now) I don’t regret moving him on and getting in Steele. Not for a millisecond.

Leaving aside all the fugazi - and also the leadership Steele brings to the club (not even Claz'z biggest fans would argue he added anything at all in that space) and how Claz has performed so far this year (id argue he played pretty well for us last year too) there is zero doubt in my mind Steele is adding way more from playing perspective than Clazz did since before he did his hammy.

Huge credit must go to the club for getting Steele in. Let's see how it plays out this season, but on the small sample thus far i reckon Steel could well become one of the best trades in the last 25 years, particularly considering we got him for basically nothing.

By the by, i reckon Lever, May and Langdon are the three best trades we've made this century.

Just now, jnrmac said:

We were favourites against Carlton

We were until a few hours before game time - they Blues actually started favs (just) in the end.

But blimey, i can't recall the lasts time we started as short as we are against the Bombers - ATM we're 1.24 to win this game, and the bombers are 4.10 (from memory we were very short against the Roos early last season, but I'm pretty sure we weren't as short as 1.24)

47 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

Sam Draper has given me nightmares over the last couple of years in this game. I'm glad he's not playing (although it only delays the nightmare one week to the Brisbane game)

He'll probably still kick 6 against us this week

2 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

We took 19 marks i50 and laid 14 tackles i50

That represents a stark difference to previous years

Absolutely, i agree (though less about the tackles inside 50 -we have long been good at that, though not so much last year which was big factor in our 'inefficiency' - ie unlike this year were not failing to trap it inside 50 when the ball hit the deck inside 50)

5 minutes ago, mfcrox said:

He is perfectly suited to the style of footy King wants to play. I read a quote from Guerra (I think) somewhere that during the final interviews for the coaching job, King was asked how he sees this team playing and it's potential... King asked to see GPS data/testing data in response, and I'm sure his eyes would have lit up when he saw what Sharp's numbers were. He is built for this game-style, and it shows in his performance to date.

According to this 2023 article, at the 2020 draft combine Sharp's 2km time trial time was 5:28 seconds - 20 secoinds faster than the next best result (it's not clear if that means all time or in the 2020 combine).

That's serious time for 17 year old.

34 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

Or maybe astute coaching would have been to put in players who could hit targets so we didnt have to bomb to medium fwds who got outmarked.

As i note above - we are bombing it to our forwards (medium and tall) more this year than last season.

Don't believe me?

Watch the all the goals video from the Suns game.

Of the 16 goals we kicked, only five involved hitting up a target inside 50 (and one of them was a shank kick by Sharp to Melky):

• Koz out of the centre square spotting up Melksham

• Lever's beautiful pass to Langford

• Checkers hitting Sharp wit his left foot after inexplicably being called to play on

• Latrelle nailing a beautiful pass to Roo (the only pure goal we got from a leading forward that got free of their defender - Langford's lead and mark was under huge pressure)

• Sharp hitting Melksham with a shank kick

With the exception of the 50 to XL, the rest all involved either long bombs or shanks (eg Steele's scratchy kick from a centre clearance that checkers read best and marked) that were either marked (Checkers x 2, Maxy and Melk's screamer) or we won the resulting ground ball (eg our first goal - Salo's snap, Melksham's gather and handpass to Koz and Latrelle's goal after the cleaver kick off the ground by Koz)

RD 4 | All the Goals

2 hours ago, Rednblueriseing said:

Both Tracc and Claz are and will be legends of the Dees.. and us supporters love what thy were apart of at our club.

But both could not hit targets going inside 50 and along with Viney we were worst in the comp. That issue alone was never resolved because our game plan was bomb it in and keep it there. It work to a point but made us work twice as hard as the opposition for our goals.

Agree with above.

However, on the last point our game plan last year involved much less bombing it long inside 50 than in previous seasons - i would posit we are kicking long to a contest inside 50 more this season than last.

In fact, unless there is clear, free target or one on one contest ahead of the ball (which is created by fast ball movement) most teams, particularly from centre clearances (because there's rarely a free player or one on one contests) are bombing it long inside 50 this season. Territory is still king.

In fact, one of the key reasons why Oliver, and particularly Tracc (who i think was dead last for retention of kicks in inside 50 last season) were so woeful going inside 50 last year was we trying to bomb it in less but neither have the skill to hit those 20-30 metre kicks to a leading or free player or weight a kick to the forwards advantage.

The other relevant aspect of the retention of kicks inside 50 and marks from kicks, is of course it's partly related to the quality of the forwards, particularly key forwards who can take pack marks, the quality of the crumbers and things like structure and system. And course forward 50 pressure is a big factor in terms of retention inside 50.

Jessie Hogan is struggling this season and not clunking his marks like he was in 2024. And atm they don't really have any other decent marking options up forward. That's no doubt a big factor in Callaghan and Claz's low % of kicks inside 50 being marked. Which is not to say both are not poor kicks - Claz certainly is.

Last season, we really only had JVR as a pack marking option inside 50 and he struggled all season. This season we have Checkers and Roo, and on the weekend, they moved Petts forward to put another tall making option down there.

Think of that terrific pack mark Checkers took at the top of the goal square on Sunday. I forget who kicked it in, but it was a bog-standard kick it long to the top of the goal square kick - the very type of kick people bemoaned us doing under Goody.

Checkers marked it and the player kicking it inside 50 would have been credited with both the kick being retained and marked. We don't mark that kick last season.

All that said, i agree we are not missing Tracc and Claz' kicking skills - or their dire lack of foot speed.

41 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

He has definitely surprised me.

I thought he was no chance of making it but I think his season has been brilliant. His link up play abs hitting the scoreboard has been invaluable

Everything moves so fast these days. Forget the 24-hour news cycle, it's now measured in minutes.

Perhasp that's why Sharpie has gone thru the four stages of Nibbla so quickly:

1. Cautious optimism player x will be decent addition to the list

2. Loss of confidence player x will be decent addition to the list

3. Grudging acceptance player x has been a decent addition to the list

4. Player x is critical element of the team

1 hour ago, Demon Jack said:

First Crack just showed some great footage of Langford's off the ball running from the Sun's game.

There was one instance where he ran out flat chat from one end of the ground to the other to provide an option forward. I think it was when Chandler marked, played on and hit the post.

They compared his current role with Ollie Dempsey from the Cats, especially with his marking ability.

I always check the tracker on the AFL app as it's the only publicly available GPS data I can find, or any data for that matter, that gives me any sense of our running power and fitness (though i reckon pressure ratings are a reasonable proxy - ours, like Calton's this year routinely was our lowest in the last quarter last season, which i think reflected out lack of fitness).

We had the top 5 players for average speed in defence against the suns (confusing name - defence in this context means when the opponent has the ball, not in the defensive half).

That's a great indication of our all team defensive gut running and spread - critical for defending turnover generally, and in this match of how we denied them space and put pressure on players receiving handballs.

Nor surprisingly Langers had the highest average speed when the Suns had the ball (8.7 kms per hour) and Sharp equal second (8.5 kms per hour).

But I have to say i was super suprised who was equal second - Harvey.

By the by, the xext two were Kolt (8.4) and Laurie (8.3)

Not bad stemster, not bad at all

On first blush, I'm not sure about the mega pump up at the start (self aggrandisement is not really my style - id probaly go with a bit more self depreciation vibe).

I like how you've mixed in Andy's voice.

Let me sit with it for a few days and have a few listens and I'll provide some more considered feedback.

Big thanks for the work and effort

2 hours ago, binman said:

My only must listen footy media is Danile Hoyne's (from Champion Data) weekly slot on SEN (Tuesday at 6:30 pm, or perhaps 6pm? - i usually listen on Spotify the next day)

On this week's show he said that based on Champion Data's player ratings Hary Sharp was third most improved player in the AFL (number one? - Christian Petracca by a mile - though he didn't note the obvious caveat that that is based on only 2.5 games)

I muddled up my stats shows - the comment about sharp was on the espn footy pod (which is pretty good)

51 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

Many are still having naughty dreams about Kentfied & Jeffo. The idea that they would replace Petty is ludicrous.

I'm a Petty fan and thought he was serviceable and played a role in the weekend - a thankless one at that.

And I can't see him being dropped any time soon, in large part because in the absence of May, and Tmac not being great one on one, Pettys's strength in marking contests and ability to take the oppo big key forward (and his ability to go forward) make him an important player.

But jeez, there's some serious gilding of the lily going on about his performance against the Suns.

Yes, not everybody thinks the Champion Data player rating points is much chop, and yes, it disadvantages defenders (though Petts played forward and rucked in the second half and both roles are advantaged under the CD player ratings system).

But be that as it may, bottom line, 22 demon players had a higher rating than Petts against the Suns - or put another way, Petty our lowest rated player.

On 07/04/2026 at 12:23, VoiceOfReason said:

The new gameplan is unlocking certain players, and Sharp is one. In hindsight, he doesn't have any glaring weaknesses, so a gameplan that suits his strengths, really bodes well for him. He is outrunning his opponent, delivering the ball well, pushing forward to be an option. He is a great kick, has pace, loves a goal, can chase down tackle. There is only upside to his game. I can only see him improving.

Agree with all of the above

He's an excellent kick, which i have to say has surprised me a bit this season

2 hours ago, No. 31 said:

I watched the replay yesterday, best game by the Dees so far this season as it was consistent 4 quarter footy. Kozzie on the middle was awesome, players I never rated that highly like Sparrow and Sharpe are making really good contributions.

My only must listen footy media is Danile Hoyne's (from Champion Data) weekly slot on SEN (Tuesday at 6:30 pm, or perhaps 6pm? - i usually listen on Spotify the next day)

On this week's show he said that based on Champion Data's player ratings Hary Sharp was third most improved player in the AFL (number one? - Christian Petracca by a mile - though he didn't note the obvious caveat that that is based on only 2.5 games)

13 minutes ago, defuture15 said:

A question for you binman

Is it likely that Roo becomes Max's replacement due to his mobility and running?

I'm beginning to think that the ruck will now be a tall athletic type and that Max Jr will not even be close to selection as a result

I don't think so. Ultimately i think Heath will replace Maxy, with Kalani supporting Heath (and eventually replacing him).

7 hours ago, Garbo said:

Get the feeling if fritsch is fit it will be Culley that makes way, Laurie would stay in as he plays a different role. Fwd line looks a little unbalanced if it’s JVR, Mihocek, Melksham, Fritsch and Culley all playing as marking fwds. The only ground level fwds left would be Latrelle and Chandler. Not that Laurie spent much time down there but it still doesn’t make sense.

I've learned my lesson making definitive statements about selections when i posted ahead of the Suns game that there was zero chance Melksham would get selected for that game

That said, there is zero chance Culley gets dropped.

He's a very important part of King's game plan:

• super fit, he can do the defensive and offensive running the game plan demands

• the game play requires players who can play multiple roles and positions - Culley can play, and has this season, wing, tall marking option up forward, mid and even pinch hit in the ruck

• Culley has shown this season he has the discipline to play a specific role or task, an important attribute all game plans demand

• King wants every player to be involved in creating scoring opportunities - whilst Culley has only kicked one goal this season he is averaging five score involvements a game

And leaving aside that stuff he's playing terrific footy this season, as evidenced by his Champion Data player rating this season of 9.55.

By way of contrast, Windsor, who has been terrific has a player rating this season thus far of 7.36.

And Langford, who is playing almost an identical role to Culley has a player rating this season thus far of 8.88

1 hour ago, layzie said:

Very telling that only 5 players attended centre bounces (6 if you count the few the Petty rucked in)

Only four in fact. I discussed that on the pod actually. We had 11 against freo, so massive difference - surely tactical.

1 hour ago, ElDiablo14 said:

@binman could you please explain more about the player ratings? If I remember correctly you mentioned champion data.

How is that related to NBA's +/-? If at all.

This fantastic post from @WheeloRatings provides a detailed explanation, with examples, of how player earn and lose rating points (equity points) that aggregated up over a game gives them their player rating (or equity points for sub elements like ball winning and ball losing)

The shorter version is player ratings are a measurement of the direct impact each player has on a game through their actions that affect either the ball or ball-carrier, expressed as scoreboard impact. To get this measurement three factors are considered for each action:

• The location of the ball on the ground before and after the action

• The situation before and after the action

• The difference in Next Expected Score (NES) value before and after each action

Actions that increase a player's team's chances of scoring next (e.g., taking possession, moving the ball forward) give positive ratings and actions that decrease those chances (e.g., turning it over, missing shots at goal) give negative ratings. The PR each player gets at the end of a game is the sum of these ratings.

The two most significant categories of points players can earn are:

• Ball Winning: points from winning possession of the ball.

• Ball Use: points from disposal, including shots at goal, and carrying the ball

I'm not sure how similar the Champion Data player ratings system is to that used in the NBA - from memory the NBA has a basic measure of how impactful a player is measured by how many more points their team scores than their opposition when they are on court (or less as the case may be).

If i'm right the NBA version is much simpler as it doesn't measure each individual action a player has in game (eg kick, mark, goal point, tackle, one percenter, shepherd, tap on, free for, free against, clanger etc etc - the post i link above has all the ay a player can earn or lose rating points)

1 hour ago, Bowserpower said:

As it turned out yes.

I was preempting it in case it happened which surprisingly it didnt.