Demon17

2 hours ago, Watson11 said:

I’m surprised you didn’t list Gary Rohan above Fritsch. You have listed a few players who go missing in finals.

Finals should be weighted way higher. Fritsch kicked 12 goals across 3 finals in 2021. J Cameron has kicked 21 goals in 12 finals. Daniher 8 goals in 4 finals. Naughton 10 goals in 6 finals. Papley 15 goals in 8 finals. Toby Greene 20 goals in 11 finals. Even Hawkins is only 48 goals in 29 finals.

Excellent post Watson.

Dermie always says you make your name in finals unless you are an outright genius such as robbie flower but even he killed in finals when the dees finally made it.

. I agree and none of those you listed will be remembered in the same light as fritsch. Or others Eg Darren Jarmen,  Jezza etc famous for gf heroics.

Hell they'll be talking in 30 years even about jake bowey and tom sparrow ahead of the above non performers. 

The cats resigning garry rohan tells us something about the cats mindset.

4 hours ago, rpfc said:

To give someone credit to do their job is my problem. Why do you get ‘credit’ for that??

Makes sense thanks. But the current 'boys club ' commentary rarely behaves in this fashion which is why the bt gf approach stood out for me.

5 in the top 21, next best is 3, and some are dubious or based on pre-2021 performance (eg Dusty, Danger)

That's the indicator I reckon. 

46 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

Christian Salem still underrated.

Spot on M.

The discussion during the season was often how a team needs to stop Salem (amongst others) to succeed. No-one ever did really, and he had 10 posseis in the GF first 1/4. All effective.

Yet rated in the 40's. Go figure. Better than Daniel for sure. 

8 hours ago, rpfc said:

So he does his job even when he has to do it for a woman… you wouldn’t trip over that bar it’s so low.

I have no idea what this post means?

BT's job is to call the action and add a bit of colour. Nothing more or less.

Leave the brainpower work to the experts - like Daisy , which he did on the GF call.

2 hours ago, 58er said:

Big difference is we are unusually coming off as Premiers ( by a margin) and a sensational 2021 possibly our best team performance in 125 years. Plus plenty of our first choice we're not available and we ( despite your assertion wrongly) that we win practice matches by this large margin frequently it's not the normal result.

I agree it's best not to carry on as if practice matches are absolute evidence of a bumper year again but it's hard not  to be convinced with our talent youth and potential depth that we are ( given no injuries to Clarry or Trac) in for another high quality season by a rapidly developing group of very determined athletes with ultimate success foremost in their minds.

The benefit of thrashing north means media will he looking elsewhere for a story this week. If it was close you'd have the Hun predicting flash in the pan stuff. Etc. Dees taking it easy then arrogance  etc.

Now we've just further frightenef the competition  . With J Viney to come back too.

5 hours ago, joeboy said:

I gave him votes today.

he was very confident and used his athleticism and pace cleverly, and for the most part, productively 

Thanks and good luck to him.

25 minutes ago, S_T said:

BoG for me was Clarry.  Very powerful display.

Most pleasing was Joel Smith.  Not sure if he was beaten once and disposed of the ball very well.  Really starting to use his supreme athletic gifts well.  Even with Petty out, picking our defenders for round 1 will be a nightmare.

Can you elaborate on Joel Smith.?  Iv'e always had my doubts and saw a 30 sec clip of the game where he charged through won the ball then butched it.

Not representative of his game?  Hitting targets?

1 minute ago, Mr Steve said:

They don't stop running. Get ball, Kick ball, run forward.

As Daisy said in the GF - "...this team doesn't have an off button..."

2 hours ago, one_demon said:

Brian Taylor is excellent .  Brings real excitement to the game.

And credit to him for the number of times during the GF and deferred to Daisy to explain what the hell is happening. He's not all bad.

21 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Daisy identifies patterns in play and strategic positioning rather than do what most older commentators do which is to either repeat what we've just seen or comment on individual player actions. Only a few others do that, and those that do are all in the recently retired bunch. Other examples are Bartel, Jobe Watson and Leppitsch (when he was a recently "retired" coach). Older commentators seem to be oblivious to gameplans and strategies and are therefore in my view of much less value.

Being recently retired doesn't automatically make someone a good commentator, though. Luke Hodge comes to mind.   

And whoever thought Wayne Carey should be a special commentator is completely tone deaf as to what is acceptable behaviour. Yes, he seems to have reformed, but I suspect that's not enough to make him a commentator who appeals to women. 

 

 

Spot on.

An excellent example in the GF was her dissection of Tom Sparrows kick to BBB (which IMO sealed it for me).

She discusses at length  the difficulty of the kick, the way ANB drew defenders to him, BBB's instructions for 60m to Sparrow, etc......

7 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

All 3 of those teams abruptly lost a top 2 playing in Ablett, Franklin and Rance.

Richmond did bring in Lynch and the Hawks Frawley and others though.

In terms of losing players the clearest comparison might be Richmond letting Ellis walk as a starting wingman. They’ve lost some others along the way like Markov, CCJ/Chol, Butler, Higgins.

If the gap between staying and going becomes a difference between 3x450 and 4x650 then it’s significant no matter the tax rate. I’m not an accountant but I believe players can set aside 10% of their wage for image rights, chuck in a bunch of other deductions and that tax bill can come right down. 

With respect I still disagree with the above.

As I said Buddy got a Godfather Clause, so did Ablett - $1.50M for 5 years. He took this for family security reasons.

Both after 2 flags and thus members of the Dynasty already.

Rance was injured and retired for personal/Faith reasons.

The overwhelming Flag members of the 3 Dynasties stayed - nearly all for less cash than they would have commanded elsewhere.

Anyone who left were fringe players and so fringe I can't even think of any examples. 

My point is that almost the whole 23 Dees players are nowehere near fringe, least of all Gus. This team has Dynasty written all over it.

We have the best and only (IMO) premiership-standard defence and defensive system in the AFL for the next 3 years. I'm hoping the great Steven May can play to 35.

30 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

Also, I think history will tell you that when you're winning flags it's hard to keep all your good players together. 

Losing Brayshaw would hurt indeed, but losing Clayton Oliver would be a bigger culture killer.

I disagree overall on the history since 2000.  Unless a player gets a Godfather offer like Buddy did, and well-deserved, then the Hawks, Tigers and especially Cats have set the template for sustarined success by the team staying together for the common good, but slightly less money.

Your'e right its hard - for the salary cap manager - but its a 2-way deal and the players collectively will take the dynasty approach IMO.  Otherwise we'll just be another flash-in-the-pan Dogs style success.  Pert won't stand for this outcome.

Gus can go for maybe 150K more than the Dees offer, then less 45c in the dollar tax, why would he.?

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

One of the benefits of sitting in the AFL Members we get to sit on Lingers Wing

Enjoy the season watching Ed weave his magic DG.

The AFL Supporters Survey released today, and hightlighted on The Age back page, talks about, among other things,  fans fed up with the boys club commentary ruining the watching spectacle on tele.

Who'd have thought?

But the good news is Ch 7 is allocating this season Daisy Peace to the Friday night commentary team for special comments, moving Wayne Carey to Saturday.

How good is that, but a good call by 7 after Daisy's suberb comments contribution on the GF. At times it was emabarrassingly good. Well done to 7 on that.

She even had BT saying during the GF's 3rd quarter "....Daise , can you explain just what's  happened...?"  So she did.

Priceless.

On 2/18/2022 at 9:51 AM, Bates Mate said:

No wound here for me. Champion data really do embaress themselves and hurt their credibility when they put out these rankings. Just should just record the stats and leave it at that

Nailed it. 

3 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Gus doesn't seem the type to be motivated by money and doubt he would be looking for a FA type windfall.  He would know he won't get what he is worth at the Dees but will most likely have a minimum  $/term/incentives he would sign for.  

On the other hand, as much loved and as courageous as he is, the club may feel he is the easiest on-baller to replace with the range of players waiting in the wings.

His 15 minutes in the 3rd quarter helped turn the tide in the GF.  A cameo?  Maybe.  But the spoil then mark and goal were inspirational.  He gave us the lead and team belief went up.

His defensive wing role limits him showcasing and using his talent.  Is it satisfying enough for hm?  Does he want to be a role player for another 5-7 years...

A different (midfield and perhaps a leadership team) role might be enough to entice him away. 

Would understand if he left.  Hope he stays. 

Its a nice problem to now have, but as with the Cats and the Tiges, we are now at a time where the players need to decide if they want less money to stay together and become a dynasty, or not. 

Its up to them really and time will tell.   I suspect we won't lose anyone short of a jesse Hogan-type scenario where compelling personal reasons override staying.

The upside is that key players have "come home" to us - Lever, Langdon, May(sort of - ex Melb Grammar boy so knows the city).

But the engine room - Gawn, Viney Petracca and Oliver are rock solid. Who wouldn't want to play with them - unless you can't get a regular game?

3 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

This thread needs to be modified. It's too easy at the moment. It needs to be more challenging as befits our standing as current Premier. I'd like to see people nominate who they'd bring back PLUS whose spot they take in the Premiership 22 (ie, ignore the sub). And try to be objective - that is, imagine you're picking the team before the Grand Final so it's not based on how players performed in the GF.

For me Flower is the additional player. (No hesitation there). That would mean one of Brayshaw or Langdon need to be moved. I think Brayshaw takes Sparrow's or Hibberd's spot. Probably Hibberd's, given he's successfully played half-back before.  

Excellent suggestion, and execllent move for Gus to Half back.

                           Centreline:                  Flower    -    Oliver/Petracca     -    Langdon.   Wow!

10 hours ago, Nascent said:

 

Yze would own the opposite wing to langdon as well as fit in anywhere as needed.

 

Many on here refer to how "...good so and so would be oppsoite Ed Langdons wing...". (esp Robbie F)

We have the Robbie Flower wing (MCC side) at the G, but at games we now talk about the Ed Langdon wing (AFL Stand side).

He's made it his own, and as he's admitted as he doesn't come off during games he doesn't need to play on the side closer to the bench.  Good for efficiency of team rotations too.

14 hours ago, dl4e said:

Flower.

Flower was consistently brilliant in State games , esp with the talent around him (which only amplified his class)

So Imagine how good he would be in this 2021 Flag side.  Pencil him in for the Norm Smith.

48 minutes ago, djr said:

 Apparently only small handful of clubs pay the required $150,000 for CD's in-depth analysis. Most pay for the base product and then do their own analysis on stats that are important to them.

 

If true, this is good to hear.   You wonder about CD doing a sense check of their analysis. It must occur to them the flaws now apparent.

Would they be now thinking if they've kicked an own goal marketing - wise?

Usually there's outrage on these sites when the list come out like Robbo's or Sheehan's, but they are subjective anyway and good for initiating arguments.

CD are the opposite, portraying these as facts, the data doesn't ie, etc, etc,.......

Highlights maybe their limited programming expertise.

Yet another example now of a premiership team never starting the next season with the exact same lineup.

Good luck to harry  and once again what a great time to have depth.

4 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Hawthorn having more elite players than the premiers says it all. 

The key disconnect simply put Jaded.

Champion Data's algoritms are flawed, depending what you are looking for. This list is interesting but the exceptions highlight it's uselessness.

I guess someone is paying them to produce this but I have no idea why and would wonder who is the client that uses this info and for what purpose.

I assume they will produce a list based on team performanace eventually pre-season which will be of interest.

17 hours ago, Elwood 3184 said:

Hickey and Naitanui are elite and Max isn’t - well, well. I must have been dreaming during 2021.

My thoughts execactly.  Yes Dorothy - it was all a dream.

Gawd help the Competion when Max becomes elite this year.

Salem not mentioned - sheeesh!

1 hour ago, dee-tox said:

Bizarre. Why give your players an out? What does that do for the psychology of the group?

Yes and more.

Cats supporters will rightly now be saying that scott hasn't learnt anything from their umpteenth finals failure. They will dodge reality of an ageing list. I would be concerned as a cats Board member.

2021 repeat coming up.

Or....it wasnt my fault.