Rogue

You 'hope I'm right' about what? It seems you're still missing the point, as you seem to be implying that I made some assertion that I didn't make. In case it needs to be made bleedingly obvious, I never argued that being eighth now means we will be eighth at the end of the season, so if that's the implication you're making then I suggest you read my posts more clearly (if you care about accurately representing them, that is - if not, continue as you are). (For the record, I'm [still] not suggesting we are likely to make finals).

Davey's been very poor this year, and to be a decent side he's one we need more from. As an aside, here are five names for you - Davey, Green, Frawley, Scully, McKenzie. Coming into the year I'd have expected good performances from all of them, and I'd have thought all of them would have been important for us (the latter two especially important after McDonald and Bruce departed). So far we haven't had much - for varying reasons - from any of them this season, and it's no surprise we're struggling.

I'm disgusted that Brad Green was on TV. What he should have been doing was training. In fact, the entire team should have gone on a 24/7 train-a-thon until next week's game. (In case you're wondering, of course they shouldn't be training 24/7 - they should also be visiting hospitals and schools spruiking the Club).

In case you missed it, my point is that for all the 'THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING' talk in general on Demonland since Thursday, and the specific suggestion that DB will never take a side to finals in particular which I quoted, we're eighth right now. (By the way, you've got rocks in your head if you think I'm happy that we're struggling, or that I'd prefer not to make the eight).

Why are you implying I suggested that 'losing by a point is the same as losing by 50, finsihing ninth is the same as finishing last, there is no such thing as a good loss even if it is to the premiers when Petterd drops a mark in the square in the last 2 seconds'? Not only did I never make any of those assertions, I don't even think those things are accurate. The very fact that there is such a thing as a 'good loss' is why, coming into the season, my view was that while I thought we would improve on 2010 I didn't buy into the finals bandwagon.

I don't think it's a 'minor thing'. Plenty of people don't religiously attend games so questions like 'do I have a function on' or 'is it likely to be enjoyable' are pretty valid questions.

A reasonable chunk of people thought we were likely to make the eight this year. (I didn't). Ironically, we're eighth right now but most of them have jumped off that bandwagon.

This.

I was heartened to see Watts' effort. Perhaps making him the sub vs GC was a good decision; perhaps something of a rocket.

It might drag the thread off topic, but you've got me hanging now. I agree with you in that even if we all agreed that expectations of some were overblown it still wouldn't justify such an insipid showing - you'll note I haven't commented on last night's game in this thread, only on expectations about our team's performance in 2011 in general. (I do think that some of the reaction to the very poor showing last night has been exaggerated by an expectation that we were going to be better than we were, though, but there are also valid concerns about our performance this season that I've raised in other threads). 'Coulda, woulda, shoulda'! In one year under ND we were top of the ladder at or just before round 19. How'd that work out for us? Not everyone talked us up so much, and certainly not everyone on here. Check the threads and you'll see a fair chunk of people shared the same view I did (and do) - that our rise wouldn't be as rapid as some hoped for. I reckon one thing you seem to want to avoid is that we were 12th last year. Not 9th, but 12th. We were never in the top eight after a completed round and ended up 2.5 games and whopping percentage away from finals. You've even conceded that the betting markets didn't indicate an expectation from bookmakers that we would be a top eight side in 2011.

OP: You're allowed to have your opinion, but this has been mentioned in a bunch of other threads.

The idea that people who don't share your view are putting forward an argument that we were 'meant to go backwards this year' is a strawman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man What 'Curry & Beer' failed to mention when regurgitating some stats from last year is how far off finals we really were. We finished 12th, 2.5 games and 14% adrift of the eight. Thus, it's 'indisputable' that we could improve in a significant way and still miss out on finals.

I understand where you're coming from, but he went 26 - he clearly wasn't rated as a 'top-3 prospect' by any of the Clubs (or if he was, they discarded that idea well before draft day).

I didn't 'pretend it was part of the plan'. There's no need to rely on strawmen. The fact that you're relying on us being one game outside the eight in one round seems to reinforce my recollection that we never finished a round in the eight. It's clearly not 'indisputable' since I and others don't - and didn't, coming into the season - agree with you. I don't think making the eight was a 'ridiculously over the top' expectation but it certainly wasn't my expectation. I'm pretty sure we had close wins that opponents would argue could have gone the other way.

I disagree. How many rounds were we in the top 8 for? I agree with the OP - it was more realistic to expect us to finish in the third quartile.

Plenty of other sides do it without playing poor footy so there's nothing inherently bad in having the head Coach on the boundary. Thus, I reckon it's a bit opportunistic to use the shellacking to attack the sideline coaching.

Indeed. Bruce and McDonald are gone, while guys like MacDonald, Warnock and Bate aren't being picked. The aforementioned have been replacec by youngsters while two of our most senior players, Green and Davey, are having no impact. When you think about it like that it's not so surprising that we're struggling. Absolutely. I know I've carped on about this problem a bit - not as much as CB, granted - but I just can't understand it. Their desire to run to a contest has been coached out of them? Come off it. The ludicrous nature of this comment is evidenced by the fact you mentioned Bennell in that group - he's been the same since the start.

Yes, you're right. However, Demonland melts down after a loss at the best of times. PS. I'm not saying this to make a dig, but if you used paragraphs your post would be much more readable.

I'm pretty sure we had a bunch of coaches elevated in the stands.

Indeed.

Haha, thanks for the impressions of Stretch - and the anecdote.

You'll still have four games on FTA TV, and now Fri night will always be live. Has it ever been better for FTA? Indeed

Haha, nice call. Yeah, it was one of the worst. I reckon they were all right - back then and with hindsight.

Dunn v Petterd. The game's on Saturday. You'd think the 23rd could get back in time.

We're pretty stagnant much of the time, yes - even up forward. At least when Green is in the forward 50 you'll see one decent lead.