Rogue

I don't see how his opinion is 'stupid' - or even wrong re: Bell. Maybe Bell is one of the fastest guy in an athletics race, but that counts for little out in the field. You're right in that he gets run down, but not because he takes on tacklers - generally he gets run down from behind while trying to figure out who to give the ball to.

No, we just don't have depth.

I agree.

Nothing I've seen at AFL level or at school makes me think PJ is going to make it as a ruckman - but I hope to be proved wrong. Agreed

Bell's position on the list is, essentially, the same as anyone else. The method of getting on the list means nothing once you're there. To want him drafted, or to criticise, because he hasn't lived up to what you'd expect out of a #x draft pick is illogical. I fail to see how his draft # should enter into any sort of discussion on whether we should make the decision to axe him or how good he is, unless you're talking about it in reference to what you could get for him or his potential (in which case I suggest looking more at his deeds than what some Melbourne recruiter thought he was worth).

The only decent thing from the OP is that extremism, like asserting that the players and coaches don't care, is ridiculous. It's a worry if that is worthy of praise, especially considering that the rest of the thread is basically an assertion that 'we're closer to a Premiership than any time in the last 40 years and the list is in good shape' - while writing off anyone who doesn't agree as a total cynic. Barely above a 50% w/l record with ten years to mould the players and work on tactics etc suggests that if ND had been Coach of any other AFL club he'd be gone. I don't think we are much (any?) closer to a premiership now than we were 7 years ago. You might be right in saying that the last 10 years have been better than the 30 before that, but I think that - if true - it's more of an indictment on the 30 years following our last flag. I'm sure most if not all players are working hard. I imagine that most of the players in the rest of the AFL are too. Miller couldn't make the team last year and simply trying isn't always enough. I'm sure every club puts in hard work and is determined - that's simply not enough. Your implication that anyone who doesn't see the list in 'good shape' simply wants to believe the worst is once again uninformed and unfair. I won't go into it in-depth as there are plenty of other threads around but - Our ruck stocks are alarmingly low, with White in decline and daylight between him and Jamar (and PJ if you think he's a ruck prospect). Neaves is a long way off and is simply potential atm. We lack key defenders or they're not good enough (eg. Holland, Ferguson). We also lack run off HB, which is part of the reason Ward keeps getting a game despite his disposal problems. Our midfielders, some of which are quite exciting, lack pace - even if Buckley makes the grade. When it comes to our forward line there's some key position potential, but most are just that (Dunn, Newton, Miller(?) etc). We've struggled to find a CHF since Schwarz retired, and our FF is one of the oldest on the list. Apart from Davey we seem to lack 'crumbing' forwards (ie. Brown playing forward vs Adel last year when Davey was out).

I'll have a go: B: Whelan, Carroll, Bizzell HB: Ward, PJ, Bell C: Bate, McDonald, CJ HF: Dunn, Miller, Davey F: Green, Jamar, Yze R: White, Bruce, Jones I: Godfrey, Wheatley, Petterd, Buckley + Buckley (Moloney), CJ (TJ), Dunn (Holland), Bizzell (Ferguson), Petterd (Brown)

The round a player went in the draft means essentially zero once a player is at the club - akin to your high school score once you're at university. I wish people would forget about draft picks when it came to team selection/judging players etc. To give another example, if Sylvia was drafted at #62 I doubt people would be as excited about him. I also doubt there'd be the same comparisons between McLean and him in terms of their development.

That doesn't have anything to do with the fitness guy. I guess you did say it was a rant, so it explains how we moved on from our fitness maen's credentials to criticising our game plan =) That he's bad luck, just like Schleprock.

Reminds of forum-goers who get angry because they see Demons players out and about in the week after a loss who don't look like someone told them their beloved grandmother died

Indeed...

He goes on to say the following, which I think is absolutely correct -

Same goes for all the teams IMO.

It's interesting that the gist of many people is that if it's to do with race it's absolutely not on, but anything else is fine. However, commentators frequently make remarks about Ling and Merrett's hair colour - which is totally acceptable. Don't get me wrong, there's certainly a difference between the two. I just thought the polar opposites on attitudes to two factors that are genetically based was interesting.

Can be a bit like that after three losses in a row

Miller was pretty good on Pav when we played Freo at the 'G last year. Most of Pavlich's possessions were out wide and on the wings (similar to where Miller gets many of his ). White did a good job of getting back to plug the gap. However we'll probably need Mille rup forward given our injury woes.

Agreed.

All makes sense. Then you go on to support ND as Coach. ND has been there 10 years - the list is his. Our leaders would have been ~20 when ND took over at the MFC.

Ah, the Board members over the past ten years must have had the same attitude as you. Explains why ND has had a decade at the club.

I've wanted ND gone for years. I would have been happy to see ND gone after 2000 tbh (or before).

I hope Melbourne's success isn't contigent on the crowd. Maybe ND can trot that one out at a pre-match. 43 years is a fairly bad run. I'm looking forward to 5 consecutive flags.

The teams we're playing have been training just as hard over the off-season. Someone has to lose, and considering the injuries we've had during games (let alone in terms of limiting our selection) it's not that all surprising.

I think it's a good idea. It's interesting that clubs are so reluctant to draft anyone who is a little older, considering most kids are drafted simply on potential and under-age rep etc. Agreed.

I'd like him gone regardless.