G'borough Demon

I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that.

Yeah, a comic genius. We've all heard he has an eccentric sense of humour. It was on full display today. Had me in stiches.

Demetriou, get your head out your a*se! The AFL has sunk to an all time low today.

Bailey should be sacked, he done all he could to lose us the game today when the players were putting in 100%. How can he command respect when he criticises players for not putting in effort week in week out and then make management decisions like he did. I don't know how he could even face the guys in the dressing room after the game.

He has done more damage today than good.

Norm Smith and his involvement in ten of our twelve flags gave us this proud history. He was ruthless in his quest for premierships. As was his pupil RDB.

No disrespect intended, but thankfully he didn't have the views of some on here or perhaps the rich history the club enjoys, and that helped lure you, wouldn't be so evident. And unfortunately that's all it is now - history. When we you lured ? Would your equivalent of today be lured ?

Some are more satisfied than others I guess, GD. But I still argue the principal; if winning the competition isn't the sole purpose then you're wasting the competition's time. Better to let someone else have a go.

I agree that the playing group are (or at least should be) focused soley on winning games and ultimately a flag or two. I guess I'm trying to define a "Football Club" as more than just the playing group. I'm relatively new to Melbourne so the past 40 years without a flag did not distract me in making my choice of which AFL team to follow for life.

Partly, otherwise why bother doing a poll ? I was also interested in expressing my view. Funny about that.

I had a healthy suspicion that a flag wasn't the be all and end all for a number of supporters. As staggering as that is to a number of us.

Great thread H, very refreshing topic.

I would love to see the mighty Dee's win a flag. In fact, I would love to see us sustain a dominating period at the top of the ladder for many years. However, I voted B and for a very good reason (IMO!) When I arrived in Melbourne everybody told me that I had to pick a football team. It would have been very easy for me to pick a team that was top of the ladder, had the most supporters etc etc. After some research I found I wanted to be part of something more. I wanted to be part of a team that was swamped in tradition and had a proud history....... Considering this, there is only one team in Melbourne!

I'm certain that at the begining of the year the main focus of the playing group and support staff is to win a flag. However, a football club is not just made up of the playing group and support staff. As a supporter and a member of the club I want to enjoy the journey and have few memories (good or bad) along the way. If we win a flag, even better.

Each club has a different culture.

For example Richmond devours coaches and ex players.

Collingwood is a powerful club, yet ultimately unsuccessful.

etc. etc.

Melb. has developed a losing culture over the last fifty years

or so.

Failing at Grand Finals ignominiously.

Inability to win away from home.

Winning at the beginning of the year, then falling in a heap.

And more. It's too painful.

I will be absolutely convinced that the culture of losing

is here to stay if Melb. wins 5 or more matches.

They need to become ruthless like Carlton.

Win by losing and toss the old culture out.

Yeah lets be like Carlton, tank our ar*se off, pay over the salary cap, get loads of potential superstars and still be a crap team.... ruthless!?

Your all dreaming if you think 2/3 PP's are going to guarantee us a Grand Final win. I'm all for trying out the young blokes for experience and I hope we turn the Swans over and any other team that stands in our way. Go Dees!

She also noted that we apparently had 'three supporters' at yesterday's game. Her voice was the most annoying thing I've ever heard on television. I hope she gets the flick. A number of times she would make a comment that moments later would be denied by the play going on. I'd said she was pretty ordinary to be honest.

As for Richo, I always enjoy his comments. As for Hudson, he was at his most annoying yesterday.

Oh and those wankers being sexest, go and jump off a cliff or come and join the twenty first century.

Her dull tones kept distracting me from the game. I had to mute the TV after she called Ablett "Geelong's favourite son" for the millionth time. Nice try by Ten to spice things up but didn't work IMO.... get her off!

Do some research on Tom Scully, then get back to us.

Yep, seen him and rate him. But not pinning any Grand Final hopes on yet another young kid. People put too much emphasis on PP's, especially when it comes to winning (or 'tanking' in some posters views) games.

Same. I want another win this week, and hopefully the same team is out on the field. Worry about draft picks when we are on 4 wins, or at the end of the year.

Agreed, win all the way. Since when has the AFL been about winning draft picks?

Fair enough, but you must admit he plays it up alot more than his teammates.

Yeah, he is a showman. I don't know if you made it to the Geelong game? When he kicked his 400 there was not much of a celebration then. This was a classic sign that the team was not fully functional and there was no enjoyment in their game. It's hard to bring back that passion when things are hard going but I think a good goal celebration helps. I think it gets the crowd going as well

I personally am greatfull to have witnessed the career of robbo.

Excitement and passion that he brings to this club. The bloke his dedacated and does put his all into the club.

His second efforts and chasing may be a bit of a let down, purely due to his lack of chasing speed.

Rhino what did robbo do to you thats made you so biased towards him?? :D

Well done robbo to a great career and i acknowledge the work youve done considering what you have to worl with lately!

Well said!

I like Robbo for his excitement and would pay every week to see him take some of the marks he has. Agreed some of his second efforts have not always been there but he has just come back from a serious injury. I would rather see Robbo use his energy to make 3 or 4 consecutive leads as a target in the forward 50 than wear himself out chasing shadows. It never has been part of his game and never will be, you can't teach an old dog new tricks!

As for celebrating goals, what is wrong with that??? It's the first time for ages that I have seen the players actually look like they enjoyed playing for each other. I think this was evident in the whole team not just Robbo.

21500.... I'll be there rain or shine!

To me coaching contains three major fields: List management, Player development and Game-Day control.

So far I would say that list management-wise Bailey has done fairly well but he's also done exactly what needed to be done. Gotten rid of some dead wood and recruited midfielders and forwards to fill the holes.

In terms of player development it is difficult to judge. Yes, there are some players who seem to be stagnating (Dunn, Bate, Bell) but we do have some of our younger players who are stepping up, especially Sylvia and Frawley, and to a lesser extent Warnock. The big issue is that none of the 'core' players that DB inherited (Bruce, Green, Miller, Jones, McLean etc) have taken the next step to becoming really dominant. The exception is Moloney who has lifted under DB to become our most influential onballer.

Game-Day control consists of putting a strong, consistent game plan into action, as well as managing things like team selections and match-ups. So far I have seen nothing at all encouraging about the way Bailey is teaching this team how he wants them to play footy. A major lack of intensity at the ball and the man, over-possession by handball, pushing the forwards outside the 50 consistently leaving a 1-on-3 or 2-on-4 inside our 50, massive numbers behind the ball, and players milling in the area 30 metres in front of the ball carrier clogging up the space. These are not things that can be directly attributed to our "young list", this is guys playing football to a set of instructions that isn't working.

This is the area that has me most concerned about Bailey's future. Any talk of extending his contract this season is massively premature, lets wait until he shows us that he can win some games.

Could not have put it any better myself. I wonder if DB's game plan has stopped the core players you mention above (other than green) taking that next step to be really dominent??? I'm with you CarnTheDees, if they don't show any improvement in playing as team by the end of the season DB should be shown the door.

I think you mean 'drivel.'

In terms of games, I think you're asking far too much, far too soon.

If we are talking wins, then 2010 I hope (and believe) that 7-12 wins is a possibility.

If we are talking playing the gameplan properly you should get a copy of the Richmond, WCE, WB, or the first half of the Saints game to see how well this young team can move the ball throught the corridor with daring and precision.

I am not a pessimist but I know we are the worst team in the AFL.

I beleive we can make significant strides in the last 10 games with fixtures against WCE, PA, Rich, Freo, and NM being winnable (if not wholly desired wins), and in the summer to build some bodies, get over some injuries, and bring in some more talent.

No, I definately meant 'dribble'........

I'm not necessarily talking about results / wins when I say how many games, I'm talking about how we contest games and gel as a team. My point is that Bailey's game plan is not effective or understood which is making us look a bad team. May be he has a great game plan but he can't express it to the players in a way they understand. May be Bailey is a good skills coach but when it comes to motivating the players and build confidence through a solid game plan he can't do it. A lot of people critisise the playing group and suggest a few priority picks will be our answer to it all, I'm not sure it is.

Coincidently there is an article on the AGE web page today which I think stresses some of my points.

<a href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/insipid-dees-have-many-worried-about-game-plan/2009/06/22/1245522784150.html" target="_blank">http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/insip...5522784150.html</a>

Just a comment to Ron Burgundy, I'm not sure what is more gutless, blaming the players or the coach!

Now that's sarcasm...

I really don't believe my attempt was 'lame,' but I had a disclaimer at the bottom that said if anyone disagreed with my interpretation they should contribute. I also asked if anyone knew a better gameplan to suit the most undeveloped list in the AFL, and if they could point out its virtues as opposed to the one Bailey is using.

I wager that any gameplan would be undone by lack of run at crucial times, inability to hit simple targets, and poor delivery into the forward fifty.

And finally, if the players didn't do skill work (kicking and hanballing) they would be even worse than they have been. 'Week in, week out' kicking at training is one tradition that won't be leaving us any time soon.

In my opinion your attempt was lame. I'm not qualified to coach and I doubt you are either, if you were you would not bother writing that dribble. However, I do agree that they practice skill work but they are not coached like an under 12 school kid which is what you make them out to be. I still stand by my comment that the game plan (or lack of it) causes more turnovers than basic kicking or handball skill errors. I doubt we will ever agree RPFC and I respect you standing by your opinion. But please tell me, how many games do you give Bailey to turn things around???

And for a brief second there I thought you were going to offer something to RPFC's debate.

Old 55, it's called sarcasm )

My point is that the players at this level don't need to be coached how to kick a football week in week out. They need a solid game plan that they trust and can execute efficiently. Even the best players in the comp will look less than ordinary with a game plan that don't work for the team. I have never stated that I know better, unlike some people on this forum (RE: RPFC's lame attempt at deciphering Bailey's game plan). However, I have enough knowledge of the game to know that what Bailey is coaching is not working or is not getting through to the team (results speak louder than words). If I did know better, I certainly would not be wasting my time in a 9 til 5 job!!

How many games is enough before too much damage is caused to a young fragile playing group?

May be MFC should appoint RPFC, he seems to be keen on forcing his game plan........ he would probably have more charisma and passion than Bailey.

Davey's worth in the backline is 2-3 goals more than playing him forward. Have you noticed that he's having his best season playing there?

No Bailey was employed to fix the list, train the new players and then win finals. The list he took over was finished as Robertson, JMac, Whelan, Wheatley and co prove to us on a weekly basis.

We will win between 8 and 12 depending on injuries. I'm not going to explain where the improvement will come from because you won't understand.

Reading some of the latest threads and posts makes me think we need to have prospective posters pass some kind of basic intelligence test before they can sign up. Some of the dribble I read these days makes this site less and less enjoyable.

Roost It, are you in bed with RPFC? You both must be wearing rose tinted glasses. We will be lucky to win 2 games this year (worse than last year) and if we win 8 - 12 next year I will walk from Flinders to the G with my pants round my ankles! I know we are a team in transition but can you honestly say we are improving under Bailey? I'll follow the Dee's forever but I'm not expecting anything while Bailey is leading the troops. You say Robertson et al are all finished but lets face it, not many of the team have been consistant performers under Bailey.

If you don't like the forum, don't post. The idea is people voice their opinions, even if you don't agree with them!!

It's 'over-complicated,' it's breeding 'indecision,' the players don't know it, and Bailey should 'realise there is something wrong with his gameplan.'

You have written a lot and said nothing.

What is wrong with the gameplan other than its 'complexity'?

What gameplan should Bailey employ?

My personal view on this is our midfield cannot kick straight, and doesn't run hard enough. And we average a three goal loss of the third quarter because the entire team seizes up and doesn't want to be the one to eff up and so we just get blown away.

The gameplan becomes moot when players can't execute basic skills and seizes their run when tested.

"What is wrong with the game plan other than it's complexity?????" Hmmmm...... it don't work!!!

" What game plan should Bailey employ?" Something the players understand and can perform for 4 qtrs

If our midfield can't kick straight or run hard then what are they doing playing AFL??? It's the lack of confidence in the game plan and the lack of motivation from the coach which causes most of the skill errors. The buck stops with the coach in these areas. You only have to watch the lads in the pre-game warm up to see that they can kick and handball to each other. Bailey just can't bring the individuals together to make them play as a team and I doubt he ever will do.

And by the way, if you think it is the players that are letting MFC down then we may as well pack it all in now.

Well I certainly am smelling some sh!t.

Lack of a gameplan...

As I said in an earlier post - BACK IT UP!

Don't just insult me and tell me there is no gameplan, explain why you think that. All you have mentioned is that Bailey has a stale "hard working" meme, that he doesn't engender passion, and that Davey is too predictable as the bloke "quarterbacking" us off half back.

No need for abusive language rpfc, clearly your passion is giving you some brain fade.

Anyway, thanks for the coaching lesson. Are you sure you don't work for Bailey? In typical Bailey style you have over complicated what is commonly known as "pass and move" and is prevelant in most team sports. Typically, the teams that perform this best win games. The teams that perform this best are coached to know where players will be in any given situation and what their role is in the team. This breads confidence and allows players fractions of extra time to execute efficiently. At the moment MFC are full of indecission because they do not know Bailey's game plan (or it is over complicated). It is this indecission that causes turn overs and soft goals, not skill errors. At this level these guys don't need to be coached everyday on how to hand ball or kick. They need a solid game plan that they all understand and have confidence in. Bailey is not providing this, hence my "lack of game plan" quote.

How many times do you have to stick your finger in a plug socket to realise you are getting an electric shock??? Bailey has had enough games to realise there is something wrong with his game plan, so it's time to move on.

I smell a troll...

Why is it a wonder when the worst team in the AFL loses games and looks awful at times?

I don't know whether Bailey can coach, he hasn't had the cattle to show us.

He's developing the cattle and hopefully next year will provide steeper improvement, but do NOT tell me that we haven't shown more this year than last. I went to about 15 games last year and there is little comparison, other than wins and losses.

And that 'dead wood' you are refering to? How is that Bailey's fault? Who, of the last two drafts, are dead wood?

Your nose must be too close to your back end....

Agreed the workrate improved in the early games but that is dropping again through lack of game plan and confidence. The "cattle" we have cannot be blamed for lack of game plan. We have a young side but so do other teams, if your good enough your old enough in my eyes. A coach earns his money by making the individuals a team. Unfortunately Bailey dont seem to have the minerals!

Have you only watched one match this year?

Not only was Davey still alright last night, but his move to half-back has seen him reach form that has some talking of an All-Australian berth. He is getting a lot more of the ball than he did last year in the forward line, and we're making the most of his wonderful kicking ability.

He hasn't backed the 'wrong donkeys', he's backed the only players he's got. He's given players like Bell, Newton, Dunn etc. plenty of matches to prove themselves, and they haven't, so we've got a heck of a lot of youth in at the moment.

Bailey's true test will come next year. If we can't get 8-10 wins next year his chances of coaching in 2011 will be shot.

Agreed, Davey at half-back has brought him into the games more this year but clearly we are not making the most of his kicking ability. We need him delivering the ball into the forward 50 where he can hurt teams. His kicking from half-back hardly gets us into the opponents half where we turn the ball over most. His position at half-back is also now too predictable, the pies and dons gave him much less time on the ball which made it hard for him to work his magic.

thanks mate, i agree totally, u cant touch JW, Bailey and god forbid Brock on this site. does my head in, thought this was a forum to express your views.

good point powell

I agree with you blokes! Everybody should be able to express their thoughts and sometimes the truth hurts......

Bailey out.... and he can take some of the dead wood with him! The entire time Bailey has been here he has been banging the "work harder" drum. He has clearly proven that hard work alone will not win you games. There also needs to be a game plan and desire to play for the coach which breads confidence. Bailey provides none of this, it is clear that the players don't know the system and the desire to put in 4qtrs is lacking. It's no coincidence that we tend to have poor 3rd qtrs. Bailey is so uninspiring I would fall asleep in his halftime talk!

We need somebody that will bring a little bit of passion to the side and a game plan that fits our playing group. I can put up with young blokes getting beat every week, but it pains me to see a lack of improvement in our game plan and the dropping of heads from even our senior players. This has to be the coach's responsibility. I'm all for a long term plan but lets make sure we have the right man for the job in the first place. The club obviously hired Bailey based on finances, not on coaching ability. Until we wake up to this fact, nothing will change (I would like to be proven wrong!!) and I look forward to the same old excuses next week......