Little Goffy

One of Spargo's quiet strengths is positioning himself in places where the opposition would like to go, so that they have to find a different, less direct path. It was something Angus Brayshaw was an absolute master at, too.

Could have made a difference against GWS but I suspect it will be even more valuable against the less experienced Kangaroos.

I'm glad there's a lot of love for Charlie because if he gets a good clean run at it again he is a really valuable contributor.

1 hour ago, Neil Crompton said:

- You don’t get a lot of favours when you finish 14th.
 

1 hour ago, ANG13 said:

We were dreadful the second half of last year, we got what we deserved fixture wise. 

1 hour ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

When you finish 14th and play a very bland brand of football in comparison to the “glamour teams” then the reality is you are not going to be prime time. It’s up to the football department to change that because it will be hurting the bottom line. 

By round 12 we will have played 4 home games against interstate teams, one 'home' game against Essendon in ADELAIDE, and the Saints at Traeger Park for some reason, against a total of only two homes games against victorian clubs.

North are almost as screwed over as we are, but not quite.

St Kilda and Essendon won't be thrilled, but it certainly isn't as bad at ours.

Even Richmond at least get to play an interstate team in the corprorate junket round to Barossa.

And Carlton continues to stand firm as the undisputable evidence that for 20 years at least the fixture has been determined by politics, not 'entertainment value', 'competitiveness' or even 'commercial draw'.

We need to stop hating ourselves. There's nothing wrong with just acknowledging the reality -  The Australian Football League decides commercial and competitive arrangements based on informal back-room networks of favouritism.

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

It may just mean degenerate gamblers thinking there is value where there probably isn’t.

Chances are they're about to lose.

Also, Chaaaaaarrrlliiiieeeee.

Chaaaaaaarliieeeeeeeee.

Charlliiiiiieeeeeeeee

It's a magical leopleurodon, Charlie!

No real joy in watching Richmond getting pummelled, but Joe Richards doing fine out there for Port is a nice reminder that Collingwood gave up Richards, Noble (who is also doing fine at Gold Coast), pick 36 and, best of all, their 2025 first round pick in order to acquire a player who is, sure, pretty good, but no Xavier Lindsay.

I choose to add a celebration of Noble & Richards to the death ride of Collingwood's first pick. It is more wholesome that way.

Essendon down by ten goals at 3/4 time is always a joy.

It is starting to look like Adelaide have got their act together and are getting real results out of a forward line which has been 'talent and potential' for a few years. Conescutive 20+ goal games is notable no matter who the opponents are, and I don't think either of St Kilda or Essendon should be assumed to be just pushovers.

It'll be up to a hard-defending side like us to work out Adelaide, contain their scoring and hit back as they fatigue. Could be important because at this stage Adelaide are looking very much finals-bound.

10 hours ago, DubDee said:

Darcy was probably BoG )with Libba and Daicos) but he hit the post twice from 30m with no pressure

He must be feeling it

*side note - love how Darcy seems to hate the Pies and sticks it to Maynard. 

Darcy is beginning to shape as a genuinely likeable genuine champion.

Didn't realise he was 208cm now. Just 1cm off Gawn. Seems to be slightly longer limbed compared to Gawn of the neverending thorax. Like Dustin Fletcher with an extra 10cm!

Looking forward to future Darcy-White match ups.😁

8 minutes ago, DubDee said:

The most obvious taking of the legs with 16 seconds to go

Nothing

Free kicks 33 - 9 after the first 15 minutes

I was going to ask about that. I got the distinct impression that the frees for Collingwood started relatively even and then just accelerated in Collingwood's favour.

Missing that blatant attack on the legs, basically killing the game, is just the perfect cherry-[censored] on top.

At some point the Pies fans also need to be copping fines for not returning the ball to the field. It has clearly become a little side game for them, something to tell their cousin-wife about when they get home.

I think the move to Geelong is inevitable. Only the Cats can offer Lord a manor and estate.

On the serf coast, too!

1 hour ago, old dee said:

Comparing me to someone suffering the frustrations of IVF is poor. One is game the other is traumatic beyond believe. Get a grip it's a game.

Yeah, see, the precise point I'm making is that you need to get a grip on the constant obnoxious stream of 'We'll all be ruined and let me tell you who to blame' because there are actual frustrations and obstacles in the world. It is spectacular that your lack of self awareness reached this point. Take a good hard look at yourself.

Having recently experienced the frustrations of IVF, and being acutely aware of how much worse it could have gone, and being in awe of my wife's magnificent resilience and lack of sulking throughout, I feel like I've gained a refreshed lack of patience with people who act like their constant dreary sulking gives them some kind of moral authority.

2 hours ago, old dee said:

The magic word. “Lost”. Didn’t work well enough. 

Poor Essendon. Must be a shock for them to realise even in 2000 there system didn't quite work.

We're talking about a game where you're considered highly efficient if you get the ball to a teammate 3/4 of the time.

I can't help picturing the total meltdown you'd have if you ever had to go through IVF.

I'll double-check the author but I think it was Isserson's analysis of the first world war and the problem of overcoming 'defence in depth' which described the way assaults evolved after the initial thrust as being a matter of 'the attackers mounting a desperate defence while the defenders press the attack from all points'.

I'd say it is a strikingly strong analogy to the way a forward 50 entry decays within moments of the initial penetration.

Isserson's solution (and the conventional approach by mid WW2) was to attack with as much depth as the defence - an initial wave to achieve the breakthrough is followed by and effectively relieved by a second wave more suited to holding positions gained and pressing further, while the first wave takes a half step back to cover flanks and prevent any cauldrons forming.

To press the analogy home, it would be a little like having tall forwards stay 'home' ready and fresh to contest for the ball, and then when a forward stoppage occurred they would move to patrol that ring around the 50 ready to intercept/contest the dump kicks, while extra grunts and runners move inside 50.

Strangely, this would mean that once the ball (and about 20 players) are inside the forward arc, our main forwards would be outside it!

On a different but related note, every strategist worth mentioning notes the value of creating uncertainty by sending detachments to ambiguously menace positions which the opposition must defend. In football terms; keeping a forward or two inside attacking 50, no matter where the play is at the time, causes the entire other team to have to think about covering them, and run to positions to cover ALL the potential ways that forward could be a problem. 

So, there's my two cents. True forwards should be kept home and fresh as possible until the actual crucial moment of the contest. Just being there puts implied pressure on the entire other team. After that contest, when the swarms arrive, they should be the ones providing the intercepting ring.

The way clubs use forwards at the moment is like the manager who assesses performance on 'hours attended' rather than actual output. Like telling fire-fighters to wash streets all day and then being surprised they struggled to haul people out if burning buildings.

Rant over. Apologies.

4 hours ago, 58er said:

Once again  post with very little substance or reason just rash generalisations trying to prove that footy is not bigger now in attendances since before Covid. 

Memberships are up solidly and there are greater numbers of 50,60 70, and 80,000 ( even odd 90,000) games more than ever. 

Sydney Swans and Brisbane alone are attracting regular sold out games ( Lions 8 or 9 of 11 home game selllouts in 2024) and Swans had record home and away numbers ever. 

in WA despite their near bottom grade position Eagles still had predominantly over 40,000 each game and Dockers more 40,000/50,000 days than in the 30,000’s.

SA had both Clubs record high over 40,000 crowds for a majority of their games. SF o the situation is far more healthy with even GWS and Suns raiding their memberships and crowds for 2024. 

Thrre are no more games just better arranged blockbusters and other non competing matches in a smart promotional way. 

Bottom line is you can’t make people attend if they don’t want to but the footy has never been more competitive and That’s what supporters like. 

Do there are genuine increases in AFL since Covid in all States along with record membership no’s despite your randomly asserted response that this is not so! 

 

I really don't think there's much to be impressed about getting a couple of friends to come to a game when there are only two teams in the city. Your chances of knowing someone else who is available and supports the same team is 5 times higher than in Melbourne, and all local sports coverage includes your team in every broadcast.

There's also generally just one game a week in the other cities, so literally everyone who just wants to go to a game of football is there. I'd invite everyone on Demonland to mentally add up all the non-Melbourne games they might go to in a season. Is it, say, once, in a whole season? Because even that would work out to 50,000 attendances a week just in little old Adelaide.

The Gabba's official capacity is 42,000. Brisbane did not pass 35,000 in the home and away season and struggled to reach even 30,000 during 'winter' up there.

Most Swans games had crowds around the 35k mark. Their four 40k+ games were against the Blues, Cats, Giants and, indeed, Demons.

Crows got 29,800 against GWS last season, so... that's fun.

Port got 27,500 against Richmond, and except for the showdowns they barely managed to crack 40,000 in the H&A season.

Western Australia is a special world of it's own, but you'll struggle to convince me there's anything amazing about 40-50k a week when you've got an AFL mad population of 3 million split between two teams, and all the advantages noted above.

I don't know why people are so obsessed with 'proving' that there's something wrong or weak about Demon supporters, but I do get irritated by entirely disingenuous use of numbers - or 58ers case here, just imagining numbers to suit your feelings.

20 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Carlton’s bottom six to 10 players in their “best 22” are utter garbage. 

21st century Carlton problems in a nutshell.

1 hour ago, KozzyCan said:

Maybe you're right. Global Warming is going to kill us all in 50 years so there won't be any football clubs anyway.

I like your optimism. It's like Michael Voss commenting that he might get sacked at the end of the season.

10 hours ago, Ghostwriter said:

You need to compromise, W. Try to get involved in something she’s interested in. This is what I do. My sons don’t get into footy. I watch MAFS (I know right) because my older two watch it (again, I know right) and we have a group chat going during each episode which makes it fun. My youngest isn’t into MAFS. He has Asperger’s so if you wanna know anything (and everything, literally EVERYTHING) about 17th century Northern European naval artillery… I’m your gal 👍🏽😅

I don't have asperger's but I do have much-loved copies of Mahan and Corbett, and my brother has even visited the Vasa in Stockholm, so we might get along.

MAFS, though... hmm... that's a whole other spectrum.

Is your son familiar with Drachinifel on youtube? Mostly a more modern steel-hull era coverage but does some great walk-throughs of the evolution of naval shot, shell and armour. Did you know they actually had to grade armour protection ratings differently for ships intended for colonial service in warmer waters? 😃

4 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

That 2nd Q from CP5 is off the charts

Truly wild. Half the team didn't get ratings that high across the whole game, and that includes players who had a pretty respectable day.

Another single quarter rating I find interesting is Langford's. He didn't look like he was having a great time of it but his actual rating would put him in our best six if extrapolated to a whole game.

The quarter-by-quarter breakdown of player stats has me concerned about the performance of some of our leaders late in the game.

I've already noted that Gawn simply wasn't on the field for a large chunk of the last, but each of Petracca, Lever and Viney fell away badly in the last, and Oliver also didn't stand up.

In a team with so many kids, it is so important that we get good contributions from the leaders when the game is hot, especially as the siren approaches.

A bit harsh of me, perhaps, given that three of them were in our highest five rated for the game, but it is part of a veteran's job to rise to the moment.

45 minutes ago, Macca said:

Good post

My original post was related to the make-up of our forward line on a damp day and the way we deliver the ball into the forward line in general

IMV we made it easier for GWS to transition the ball out of our forward line 

To be fair, Goodwin is probably the best defence orientated coach going around

Maybe we need an offensive coordinator who can call the shots

On that much and probably more we are in general agreement.

On the one hand, we obstructed GWS' rebound a lot better than Collingwood did (not a high bar, just mentioning to make fun of the 'Pies), and I suspect a few other clubs will struggle.

On the other hand, if we want to be premiers then taking the momentum out of rebounds is going to be critical and there's clearly space for improvement.

I suspect there's a bit of missing Nibbler to it, while we get the 'settings' right for the roles of Chandler, Sharp, Henderson and Sparrow.

The way I see it, two more weeks for these guys to sort out who will stay or who will go when Pickett becomes available.

Meanwhile, Van Rooyen and Jefferson are a project which simply must be made to work.

Fritsch... may actually be in danger of a spell at Casey if he can't either make himself dangerous or build harassment into his game.

There's an awful of variability to figure out.

On 17/03/2025 at 10:25, Macca said:

Goodwin doesn't know how to coach offense very well

At best, he is adequate 

I can see why that impression holds for many, but I disagree, and please here me out! :D

Put your thoughts back to 2018, when we went berserk with scoring, easily topping the 'points for' ladder. In fact, no club has scored more in a season since!

There's no debating that Hogan was at the time an absolute gun tall forward, and has returned to that status late in his career. But the support around him was; Tom McDonald who is a very respectable player who had a excellent year, Jake Melksham who I love but it would be excessive to pretend he is the realm of say Breust or Green, Alex Neal-Bullen who we all know the strengths and limitations of, Petracca bobbing up impressively for almost a goal a game, and about half a season each from Mitch Hannan and Jeff Garlett. Even with Hogan, that is not a superstar forward lineup.

When we lost Hogan, there was just no way an attack-first method was going to get us a premiership. Acquiring May as a non-similar replacement proved to be a masterstroke, and getting Ben Brown in as a role-player was an injury burden risk which worked well enough to get us a premiership.

I suspect both losing Jackson and the disappointing Grundy season further limited our options for having tall marking targets up forward capable of capitalising on our brute-force method of getting the ball forward. Consider that just one or two contested marks taken up forward each game would have transformed our results in all three seasons of 21-22-23.

We clearly have prioritised the search for tall forward options, with Hogan, Weideman, Jackson, Van Rooyen and Jefferson all being high draft selections. Two of those players left and one of them never quite got it together. Now I'm sure the club is waiting through gritted teeth to see if Van Rooyen and Jefferson can mature soon enough to give us the marking options we need.

In the meantime, our forward line has been very much discount brand, relying on hard workers and our only consistent goal-kickers being the undersized marking Fritsch and the young small forward star Pickett.

For all that, we were in the top-6 for scoring for all of those three seasons.

So, I think our relative lack of potency up forward has had a lot more to do with the available talent than with a failure of coaching.

Reiterating; add one or two forward line contested marks a game, and even just a couple more good contests to bring the ball down, and our results for 21-22-23 look very, very different.

If Van Rooyen and Jefferson can get a good show up and running this season, we're right back in business as an attacking power.

There's a difference between saying 'it would be good if more people turned up' and saying Demon supporters are pathetic.

If someone were particularly agitated about it and had a constructive mindset, they might start a thread to discuss what the obstacles are for people who want to attend but find it difficult, or they might volunteer with the club to do some interviewing of supporters to really find out what would be a practical help or encouragement.

But this thread opened with someone basically having a tantrum and throwing insults, and its so obviously counter-productive thst I'm not sure they even really care about improving crowd numbers so long as they get to act superior.

There is a passing resemblance to Kade Simpson, except Xavier Lindsey has started his career with the same number of disposals as Simpson got total from his first 8 games.

Greatness isn't always instant, but maybe in this case excellence is.

Pretty good mix of contested efforts and tackles, as well, for a guy who weighs less than I did before Covid blimped me.

1 hour ago, Demonland said:

 

Voss could reasonably stake his job on the Blues coming out hard against Hawthorn. Curnow is a big in but it would not matter two squirts if Carlton brought the mental state they brought to the Richmond game.

It feels bizarre to say so, but I'd be looking at thursday as a 50/50 game with a solid prospect of outright biffo for flavour.

There's an unpleasant sensation that this season could see multiple clubs either fall horribly short of their aspirations and go into crisis that way, and multiple other clubs simple fall horribly.

Each of Fremantle, Port, Carlton and Collingwood could be exposed badly this season and find themselves faceplanting into a closing window.

Essendon, Gold Coast, North and Adelaide are all working under a significant pressure to show overdue progress.

St Kilda would be looking at West Coast like the Ghost of Christmas Future.

West Coast have Lions at the Gabba, Freo at home, then GWS in Sydney to start their season. My gut feels like I swallowed an avocado whole when I think about that scenario too much. Or perhaps it is simply the Ghost of Christmas Past, haunting me.

Strange side note - how will Gold Coasts 1 game on, 1 game off start to the season affect their performance for round 3?

3 hours ago, Ghostwriter said:

Well, I clearly have nfi because it turns out it was a 2-all draw. I only saw the White team’s celebrations which were way more conspicuous than those of the Red team. Clarrie says the White team would’ve won if his teammate hadn’t missed an easy one. He didn’t name which teammate that was. 

Should have had the president come down.

There will always be time for one more mention that he tried out with Manchester United.

Loved the old comment about the potential angst if we finished a season near the bottom but had no draft pick to show for it after trading the future pick to Port.

I'm death riding Collingwood on my mighty horse Schadenfreude.