Adam The God

4 hours ago, Watson11 said:

Agree. Not sure how anyone thinks he is a poor kick. Spargo is not back to his 2018-23 kicking level yet but he will get there. His kicking is as good as anyone playing in the forward half. His career goal average is 0.6 v Miers at 0.7. Miers has spent 17% more time on ground in his career as well. He needs more kicks but maybe we just need to accept he will be 7 kicks a game and they will be impactful. As long as he combines that with pressure he shouldn’t be dropped.

Great post.

Just regarding disposal and kick count, I think we'd like to get his kicks up.

He had 19 disposals against Freo and 7 score involvements. That's where his level should be.

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

The brutality that is EPL will probably still see Ange looking for another gig despite holding the UEFA cup up high.

I'm not Mr Goodwins greatest advocate in fact advocacy has never crossed my mind . ( 21 was a Goodwin good win... with "help" though )

As suggested before the normal and more obvious yardstick of finals won't be a reasoned measure. Those familiar with stats and I hate the analogy here , as most stats in football abhor me, but the trends you can see in graphs etc are what we need to look for as the season progresses.

If indeed we get traction ( tracc-tion even 🙄) and we start trending with better footy, better results more wins ... then... reality says ... keep going.

Conversely... if it does transpire... that's the other reality.

For now I'll go sit in the cheap seats , on the fence and see what manifests.

Go Dees

Just want to win.

Ange has overseen a team that is one spot from regulation. Not really apt comparison given the EPL essentially doesn't have a salary cap.

1 hour ago, binman said:

It would be pretty basic stuff for anyone currently playing footy, or involved in coaching or talent spotting, at a reasonable level.

But not basic for the rest of us, particularly people like me who last played footy in the under 14s.

I'd like to think I've got a reasonable handle on tactics and structures, but whatever I do know is a function of:

• Having always been really interested in the tactical side of the game

• Being fascinated by the evolution of tactics in footy

• My own observations

• Like a bower bird, getting scraps of information from the media to add to my knowledge

All of which means my knowledge about tactics, method, game plans, structures etc etc is really just a hodge podge of cobbled together info with heaps of knowledge gaps.

Which is why i find the coverage of the game so frustrating. I want to learn about the tactical side of the game, the basics and the more complex aspects and i don't think it is unreasonable to expect i get some that in the wall to coverage of the game in the same way you do in other sports.

But there seems to be no interest in helping people learn about what I'd argue, given the size if the field, the number of participants and being 360 degrees, opaqueness of the rules and speed of evolution is the most complex elite sport in the world.

Which is why I loved this vid so much - smart, easy to understand when combined with visuals, doesn't talk in the stupid code and jargon ex footballers seem to love so much (eg the infuriating habit of recently retired ex footballers saying stuff like 'the fat side' or 'kicking off line' assuming people know what they are talking about when they have never bother explaining it) and above all informative and interesting.

I mean, really, fox and 7 is that bloody hard?

Haha, he does actually use the phrase "kick off the line". But I agree with what you're saying.

6 minutes ago, lorn said:

True but our game plan tends to fall apart under pressure

I'd argue we can win in multiple ways. We're developing a few different approaches and a few different gear shifts.

If we chip the ball around at the back, when the opposition presses, they open up space behind them for us to play into.

If we go long down the line, we have Max.

I'd be intrigued to hear what you think our game plan is and why you think it's any more susceptible to pressure than any other game plan in the league.

19 minutes ago, lorn said:

It was a very good win aginst Brisbane. Our ball movement was definitely better but my concern is that Brisbane didn't really pressure us that much, particularly in the last quarter and when teams pressure us that's when the game plan starts to falter, we miss targets, we start bombing it in and we end up with a dysfunctional forward line. So I'm going to wait and see how we go when the pressure comes.

All teams struggle under pressure...

5 hours ago, poita said:

What is a score involvement? Does that mean the full back has a score involvement if a kick in travels the length of the field?

Are we that excited about Spargo's score involvements if the ball is touched 3 more times before we score? Or if he jams his teammate in the pocket on an impossible angle?

Footywire lists him as contributing 1 goal 4 behinds and 4 goal assists in 8 games. How is that an acceptable return from a permanent small forward?

A score involvement means his disposal hasn't broken down in a chain that results in a score.

If you go back to my original rebuttal, it was to be debunk the idea that Charlie was a poor kick.

3 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Can someone explain why he’s linked to us

He's an NGA.

Do they go with Lever for TMac and Viney for Sharp? Fritta stays sub.

Harsh on TMac, but I think our defensive half will lack balance if we play May, TMac, Turner and Lever.

Unless... Turner goes forward or TMac goes forward.

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

Miers has a win/loss percentage of 65%, Spargo has 64%.

He hasn’t known the old Melbourne.

I guess he missed it last year, but he was definitely in the team in 2019, which was pretty bloody ordinary.

8 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

Actually, theyve both played in near identical winning percentages of around 65 percent. And both played in 5/6 winning years and 1 losing season. Their 'winning' environment is about the same but anyway.

I meant Spargo got to 100 playing so many games in a season. As a forward, he's about 100th in SI rankings. He might be an above average distributor but he doesnt do it enough clearly. Whether on him or goodwin dunno, he'saverage at best overall but out next best is well below average so he shouldnt get dropped. Tholstrup should be absolutley gunning for his spot but reports from last week were not encouraging

This I agree with. He needs to get 15+ possessions, if he can get up near 20, he'll be more damaging than Miers.

This thread sounds like a Mission Impossible episode.

I wouldn't be trading McVee or JVR.

And hi Steve!

12 minutes ago, Dee*ceiving said:

I like Charlie, he does a stack of selfless running to plug space/stifle transition/make space but I wouldn't mind seeing Pup Brown have a crack at that role at some stage.

Charlie dropped a couple of marks he probably should have taken on Sunday and it seems his kicking penetration has degraded further this year.

Kynan will be faster, most likely kick further and probably hungrier but won't have the footy smarts of Charlie (not yet at least).

I don't mind what I've seen of Brown, but those that watch Casey regularly say he butchers the footy. This is why he's not getting games ahead of a guy like Spargo. They're prioritising ball use at AFL level over huge tackle numbers at Casey.

25 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

Those years he had over 100 are purely on weight of games. He was 169th and 192nd for score involvements average per game. Miers isnt a fair comparison of course but he's 9th, 28th etc.

Since returning he's around 250th+ for score involvements per game.

But i agree, hes in my team also cause we dont realistically have anyone else i trust for a 13 possession 3 tackle 1 clanger 3 score involvement game.

What do you mean purely on weight of games? He's got a career average of 4.2 score involvements per game. Miers has a career average of 5.6, in a side that has played consistently well for his entire career. You can't say the same for Charlie.

2 minutes ago, old dee said:

Correct I realised my error and corrected. When were these seasons? I suspect pre 2023. 2024 he only played part of 1 game and 2023 he spent most of the year as Casey. IMO it is a long time since he has been more than average.

In Charlie's first season (2018), he had 93 score involvements.

He had 110 score involvements in 2021, 101 score involvements in 2022 and 54 in 2023 where he played 14 games, so he didn't spend most of the year at Casey.

This season, he has 30 score involvements from 7 full games and 1 as a sub with 18% TOG (so effectively 7 games). He's effectively going at 4.2 score involvements per game. With 13 games remaining, if he plays all of them and averages this, he'll finish 2025 with 84 or 85 score involvements. He's right on his career average of 4.2.

Does he need to improve his form? Everyone can. Has Spargo's kicking always been poor? No.

You've then decided to shift the goal posts now and claim he's just 'always been a poor kick' post 2023.

3 minutes ago, old dee said:

I don't like your maths, 1 season of 100+ vs Myers with 4 seasons. If you included the 93 season the Spargo is half as good as Myers. Also when was the 100+ season? I suspect 3 years ago.

OD, I hope you're okay. I wrote 2 seasons of 100+ and one of 93. That's close enough to 3 seasons of 100 score involvements, which is a season behind Myers.

13 minutes ago, Demon Jack said:

Just in case there's anyone that thinks Bowey only wins easy ball on the outside. Some seriously good contested wins here.

That player rating system @binman is broken. As if this wasn't an AA-rated game. He saved scores against, he creates score for. A huge game.

19 minutes ago, old dee said:

I am not a Spargo fan. His kicking has always been poor it's not new.

You don't have 2 seasons of 100+ score involvements and another season of 93 score involvements if you can't kick the footy.

He's an elite distributor.

For comparison, Geelong's Myers, someone regularly lauded as one of the best forward half users in the game, has had 4 seasons of 100+ score involvements. So basically one better season than Spargo.

Spargo was injured practically all last season.

I'd have Spargo in my team every week.

4 minutes ago, Tim said:

25.9 - a day out on the accuracy front on the scoresheet. 10 of the 12 goalkickers are still plying their trade in the AFL 7 years down the track, and 14 of the 22 in the whole team (should be 15, as Gus played as well). With hindsight that’s a good metric for why we had such a strong performance from 2021-2024. And for the record, 3 votes J. Melksham - the same bloke who received 8 coaches votes at his last start, 7 years on.

I looked at the stat sheet for the game, and the weirdest thing was that player C. Oliver had 26 disposals without taking a mark - the only player on the field to not do so. Strange. Even Pat Kerr, playing in his only ever game, took 2 marks among his 7 possessions.

I recall our accuracy in 2018 was always pretty bloody good, because we took the majority of shots from inside 30. Quite like Collingwood in 2023.

@WheeloRatings , do you have these sort of stats mate?

12 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

Every player has a hot patch and i vaguely remember those games (older age), but was his form consistently of a high standard. The narrative around here was that up until recently, Melk was one of Goody's boys and that he was always able to bypass selection integrity. I have never really seen him like that. He can lack some defensive accountability in the sense of how some High HF's play, but to me that is not his role. He has to play on the defensive interceptor / rebounder and exploit him the other way. Almost every team has one. He'd play on Lever if he was an opponent.

He was consistently a good player through that period.

And statistically, has been an elite score involvement player earlier than 2021. Ironically, he did struggle in 2021.

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Earlier in the season I thought he had "lost the players" - not that they hated playing for him but that the message was stake and no longer cutting through.

I think that's proven to be false and barring any unforeseen circumstances he will definitely be coaching round 1 next year. It's not about wins and losses but how we play, losing to North by 10 goals and Essendon by 40 pts was inexcusable.

We still have plenty to work on but mostly it's to do with skill execution. Clean up those basic errors and we would have beat Brisbane by a few goals and should have beat Hawks (or lost by a slim margin if they were able to run over us).

The next two weeks are critical but the Kings Bday game looms large. We simply cannot afford to be blown away by the Pies and at some point we need to put our foot down and stop being their playthings. We simply must make a statement in that game.

Completely agree with all of this mate.

7 hours ago, GS_1905 said:

Also felt like it was a

I can’t remember Melky pre 2021 for some reason. Was it suddenly he looks decent? He has always been in and out of the team. But finding a target in f50 comes naturally to him. Playing him HF for connection just seems so obvious.

Not at all. He was huge in 2017-2018. Particularly '18. In the Hawthorn semi final in '18, he kicked that famous goal on his left late in the 4th to ice the game.

There is a thread detailing our 100+ point win of Carlton in 2018, where he kicked a bag.

He was also a major player in that West Coast win in 2018 that secured our first finals birth in over a decade...

18 minutes ago, demoncat said:

This is a good point but it does make you wonder where the club sees him sitting amongst Clarry and Viney though (and to a lesser extent Rivers)

Or perhaps it’s just a case of wanting to get good talent through the door and figuring out the rest later 🤷‍♂️

He'd be a major upgrade on Sharp for instance...

I'm also not convinced we're after him. But I could see why we would be.

3 minutes ago, Greg Schneider said:

What’s the point of difference ? He can’t hit a target like the rest

The point of difference for our midfield is speed. And his ball use yips are vastly overstated. He goes at Will Day's 69% DE and the much vaunted D'Ambrosio goes at 70%.

53 minutes ago, adonski said:

Going after Worpel makes me think either

1. Clazz is more likely than unlikely to be out the door? Strange given recent commentary from the club but possible

2. They think Viney is pretty close to being cooked - quite possible but contradicts the contract extension handed to him

Pretty obvious we need greater midfield depth and Worpel offers a bit of a point of difference to the rest of our midfield.

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Looking at this Video, it will be hard to drop players

Jeff White is a Coach in Waiting….

It's outstanding analysis, isn't it?

Not sure about the coaching call though.