MadAsHell

Australia surely to be unchanged for Perth. England I'm sure will rush Bresnan back, for Panesar, then just a question of whether they look to bolster their batting by bringing Ballance or Bairstow in for Stokes or pin their hopes on Prior's form turning around, bat Bresnan at 7 and bring in Finn or Rankin for a bit of pace x factor in Perth and having 5 bowlers. No easy answers for England, but their depth with both bat and ball is certainly starting to look a little thin.

Yeah I'm not a fan either, I'm missing the days of Benaud, Lawry, Chappeli and even Greig more then I thought I would. Why they didn't go hard for either Fleming or Blewett from Foxtel I have no idea. Both very good commentators, and Fleming is a crack up to go with it!

What a day of cricket yesterday, was absolutely unbelievable! Can't believe the turn around in Mitch Johnson's fortunes, 12 months ago I never wanted to see this guy in the whites again, now look at him! Aussies to bat for 45-50 minutes this morning and declare setting England somewhere close to 600 to win as Macca suggested. And with Perth coming up their batsmen must be frighteneted about what to expect from Mitch there! As for what changes England can make from here on to try anda salvage anything??? I'd expect Bresnan will be rushed back for Perth at the expense of Monty, Prior is in all sorts of bother and hasn't made decent runs in his last 9 tests, they may look to bring Bairstow in for him and Gary Ballance may also come in for Stokes to strengthen their batting. And as many have said, Bell should bat at three and Root should go back down the order to 5 or 6. This makes the 5th test match in a row we've had the better of England, despite the fact we lost at Durham. When we think about it, apart from the Lords test match it's amazing the turn around this team has had since Lehman came in.

Hard to see England turning this into a win, and even a draw suits us well with Perth coming up where it's fair to say the conditions will suit us much more then England and could see us heading to Melbourne 2-0 or even better yet with the series wrapped up 3-0! England's best bet is making 500 themselves. Hope to knock us over for about 150 and then chase down 220-250 on the last day, but that's a long shot, especially given they haven't made it to 400 as a batting unit for some time now, well before the last Ashes series. Aussies need a good disciplined day of bowling tomorrow. If we can have them say 7/350 at stumps tomorrow you'd take that on this wicket, And I reckon it will get tougher to bat days 4 & 5, thought there was just a little bit of inconsistent bounce late in the day today which I reckon will suit Harris & Siddle especially.

I know that I will likely get howled down for this, and potentially rightly so. But..... Should we look at resting our two most important quicks from the last test (Harris & Johnson) from the flat track that will await them in Adelaide and instead keep them up our sleeve for Perth? We could bring in a second spinner (Fawad Ahmed) so we'd have a leggie and an off spinenr and also bring in Faulkner to share the new ball with Siddle and give our batting some extra depth as a draw in Adelide would suit us just fine. Siddle & Faulkner share the new ball. Watto to bowl first change, but still cap him at no more then 10 overs a day, and then the specialist spinners of Lyon & Ahmed. We're not going to be able to bounce them out in Adelaide, so if we can play it smart there and hit them hard in Perth, that could then see us with a 2-0 lead heading into Boxing Day. Just something to consider I reckon. http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/story/692679.html

True on both counts, however: McGrath's incident was comments involving his wife where it was common knowledge at the time she was battling cancer. Symonds was racial abuse, and we see the players in the AFL get a case of the sooks whenever it happens there. The Trott incident was widely unknown about his personal issues there. If it had of aleady been known then Warner would have crossed the line. As it wasn't, he hasn't IMO.

Wow! That's pretty big! Wonder who they'll send out to replace him? The all rounder Woakes, or will they go for another specialist batsman like Compton? I guess if Woakes replaces him, they can then play Pannesar as a 2nd spinner (bar the WACA of course). Bell to move up to 3 you'd think and Root to 5.

Haha, always have been keeping the faith Macca, but even I'll admit I wasn't expecting that result in the manner in which it came! Coming into this series I always thought the GABBA & WACA were the most vital tests for us as the conditions would obviously suit us much more then England, and being the 1st & 3rd tests give us an opportunity to grab the advantage. Adelaide & Sydney would probably suit England more and Melbourne should provide the most even wicket. They've only started the drop in pitches this year due to AFL moving in next year and yeah the wickets have been flat. Shield game going on there at the moment and 11 of the 21 wickets to fall so far have gone to spinners, so I wouldn't be suprised to see England bring Panesar in for Tremlett. Whether that means they look to bring Chris Woakes in as the all rounder & third seamer at the expense of Trott and get Bell to bat at 3 I don't know, but spin will play a big part in Adelaide. And you're right I've got concerns for our quicks also, really want them to be fresh to go for Perth, and the last thing we'd like to see is a repeat of what happened against South Africa in Adelaide last year. Lehman's said if everyone's 100% then they'll play, which is the right attitude to take, I just have concerns over it that's all. As P-Man said we may need to look to Smith and possibly Warner to bowl some overs in order to give our quicks a rest when able. Don't want to see Harris getting injured, Siddle & Johnson hitting the wall and us having to go into the WACA with Hilfenhaus, Faulkner and a debutant in Coulter-Nile as our 3 quicks like we did lat year with Johnson, Starc & Hastings! Edit: Furthermore to my comment about keeping the faith, this win has been coming, since the 2nd Test in England at Lords we've actually been the better of the two teams. We were well on track at Old Trafford to pegging the series back to 1-2 until rain ruined our chances on the last day when we had them at 3-30odd. We were the better team in the 4th test and were crusiing to vistory until a spectcular batting collapse saw the end of that. We should have won that no more then about 4 down the way we were going. And again rain robbed us at The Oval. The only reason England got as close as they did was because of Clarke's early declaration to try and force a result. We had a very healthy first innings lead there, and if rain hadn't been a factor, we no doubt would have batted normally in our 2nd dig and set them 400 odd to win. And this also now marks 6 consecutive test matches where England have failed to reach 400 against our bolwers in any innings. It's a great credit to them that against a team with the likes of Cook, Pietersen, Bell, Tott, Prior and co that we've bene able to keep them sub 400 over 6 test matches, where as we've reached 400+ now on three occasions. All of them since that Lords test. The signs are good people!

The Adelaide test is vital. It will be a slower wicket with less pace and bounce which will suit England. If we can just make sure we don't loose and get a draw, it'll mean we can head to Perth where we never loose to England due to the even faster and bouncier wicket and be heading for a 2-0 lead with two tests to go. If Adelaide's a good batting wicket we should just bat, bat, bat and bat and if a draw comes that is almost as good as a win for us heading into Perth with a 1-0 lead!

We'll have to agree to disagree on the forms of the game to play them in. Although I must say I think traditionally the selectors have thought more along my line of thinking. To win a test match you have to take 20 wickets, you can win a ODI or T20 only taking 3 or 4. It's bowlers like Stuart MacGill played so many tests but barely any ODI's (great strike rate/average but poor economy) and others spinners like Doherty play so many ODI's/T20's but barely any tests (great economy but poor strike rate/average). Lyon will play for now but he's not the answer long term and I think Fawad's closer to the answer then Lyon is. There's a reason all the top Australian sides over the years have had leggies instead of off spinners, it's what our conditions favour. With the exception of Trumble of course. Actually they do, you just have to go into them and do the stats manually yourself. I can tell you in the three Shield games each have played this summer Lyon's stats are. 10 wickets for 351 runs @ 35.10 off 142.1 overs. Economy rate of 2.47 with a strike rate of 85.3, so he's taken 14 and a half overs to take each wicket. Fawad Ahmed: 11 wickets for 333 runs @ 30.27 off 90 overs. Economy of 3.70 with a strike rate of 49.09, so just over 8 overs a wicket which is a very good strike rate. Edit: Spelling

Match figures of 4/99 off 33.5 overs in his last Shield match on a wicket in Hobart that traditionally does nothing for spinners is a far cry form impotent. My view on Fawad's Shield season so far is he's had one bad game and two decent games. I can see why some people would like to stick with Lyon, I myself will say that he's a safer option, but he's never going to win us a match on a wearing Day 5 pitch, Fawad has the potential to. He may go for more runs, but if that creates more wickets, more often then I'd take it every day of the week. I'd never play him in the shorter formats, but the long formats, yes every day. True, but as Fawad's never played a test you can only really compare them in the format that both have played.

Nathan Lyon Fawad Ahmed 49 First Class Matches 21 146 Wickets 67 38.11 Average 31.25 3.15 Economy 3.67 72.4 Strike Rate 51.0 7/94 Best Figures/Innings 6/68 9/165 Best Figures/Match 8/77 Sorry to say TU, but those stats don't back up your opinion. Fawad takes more wickets every game he plays at a better strike rate and better average. Lyon economy is also only half a run better then Fawad Ahmed's to date and although he has better match and innings figures then Fawad, he's had an extra 28 First Class matches in which to do it. I know Lyon will play in Brisbane and no doubt Adelaide. But if he fails to impress in the openning two tests, I can see 4 quicks in Perth followed by a Fawad debut on Boxing Day.

I'd go with Fawad Ahmed yes. Even as recently as Englands last tour game against that Invitational XI, they showed their famous weakness against leg spin with young Victorian James Muirhead taking 6 of Australia's 13 wickets for the match. Copped some punishment, but he was taking wickets. Watch out for Muirhead in the future as well, has a lot of talent this kid! Lyon's a defensive bowler and we need to take 20 wickets. He's not a bad bowler, but I don't see us getting a lot better with him in our XI, now's the time to roll the dice with Fawad. I'm against 4 quicks almost all the time, except the WACA on the odd occasion when we have 4 quicks in red hot form, no specialist spinner in form and we can use the likes of Clarke, Smith & Warner for part time relief. Watson as the all rounder at 3, but wouldn't want to bowl him much more then 10 overs a day. I think in time Faulkner may become a genuine all rounder, but he's probably not there yet, although I'd play him as a bowler ahead of Johnson myself. My XI would be: C. Rogers D. Warner S. Watson M. Clarke* G. Bailey S. Smith +B. Haddin J. Faulkner P. Siddle R. Harris F. Ahmed 12th Man: M. Johnson But obviously Johnson & Lyon are both going to play ahead of Faulkner & Ahmed.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/current/story/667951.html White no longer Victorian captain and Matthew Wade now has the job. Shipperd trying to give Wade some leadership experience to get him back into the Australian XI do we think?

Ray Bright was a reasonable bowler jazza, but 53 wickets in 25 tests @ 41.13 isn't anything to get to excited about. In fact we've never had a left arm spinner get to 100 test wickets and I'm pretty sure Hugh Trumble is the only right arm off break bowler we've had that has got past 100 test wickets and his last test match was in 1904! As Rhino said Australian conditins suit the leg break spinners which is why our best spinners Warne, O'Reilly, Grimmett, Benaud and MacGill were all leg break bowlers. Trumble being the exception of course. This is why Fawad Ahmed is probably our best prospect at the moment, however going forward look out for the development of both Adam Zampa who's now on South Australia's list and should hopefully get more Shield matches there and James Muirhead for Victoria, who if Fawad Ahmed is selected for Australia, should get some opportunities with the Vics. Although he'll have to battle for a spot with John Holland. Muirhead had a very good season in district cricket last summer.

That's a pretty fair call Rhino, and history backs you up. As all of our best spinners have been wrist spinners rather then finger spinners. The only really good finger spinner we've ever had that I can think of is Hugh Trumble from several eras back. Where as on the flip side there's the likes of Warne, O'Reilly, Grimmett, Benaud, MacGill etc. And elsewhere I find this really sad: http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/the-ashes/brett-lee-calls-for-reinstatement-of-mitchell-johnson-to-australian-test-side/story-e6frf3gl-1226705909564 Clearly Brett Lee has lost his grip on reality and he needs to be supported by close friends and well wishes to make sure he gets back to a much better mental state and isn't as dilusional as he clearly is right now....

Not wrong Jazza, I found a link to that article here: http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/the-ashes/stuart-macgill-says-fawad-ahmed-should-be-picked-for-ashes-tour-if-he-gets-an-australian-passport/story-e6frf3gl-1226613791486 I'm pretty confident he is Rhino. In his last 3 (being his first) Shield games of the season he took 16 wickets @ 28.38, two games at the G and one at Belrieve, neither of which are traditional spin friendly wickets like Sydney or Adelaide. He did then struggle in his first two games with Australia A against Ireland and Glousta over in the UK in pretty ordinary conditions it must be said. Could possibly be put down to nerves also. However in his last three First Class matches, one against a full strength Zimbabwe XI and the other two against a pretty handy South Africa A side he took 15 wickets @ 22.67. Lyon will get first crack in Australia, and rightly so, probably the first three tests (GABBA, Adelaide Oval & WACA) but if he fails to deliver I can see a Fawad Ahmed Boxing Day debut.

I still reckon Fawad Ahmed is better then Lyon. However I'm concerned that he's almost being set up to fail by playing in the upcoming ODI series as I think and his record suggest he's a much better bowler in the longer format of the game then the One Dayers. Still, if he starts the Shield season well then he'll give himself every opportunity. I just hope he doesn't miss a large chunk of it by getting picked in the One Day tour of India which starts the same time as the Shield season. Very poorly organised that one!

Thought I'd post the link to Malcom Conn's report card of our players for the series. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/cricket/news-corp-senior-cricket-writer-malcolm-conn-rates-the-performances-of-australias-ashes-squad/story-fni2usfi-1226704557575 Pretty fair you'd have to say. Thought maybe Rogers could have managed a 7 out of 10 rather then 6 maybe. Otherwise no real suprises. Mentions Haddin was great with the gloves but struggled with the bat. And still a question mark on Nathan Lyon I noticed despite his impressive performance at Durham. Makes me think that Lyon will need to perform in the first few tests (GABBA & Adelaide Oval) to avoid loosing his place to Agar (could come in for the WACA test) or Ahmed (could come in for Boxing Day) if they have good starts to the Shield season.

Amazing finish as the match ends with England needing 21 off 4 overs with 5 wickets in hand due to bad light: Stumps Day 5 Australia 1st Innings 9/492 dec S. Watson 176 J. Anderson 4/95 (29.5) England 1st Innings 377 J. Root 68 J. Faulkner 4/51 (19.4) Australia 2nd Innings 6/111 (In 23 overs!) M. Clarke 28* S. Braod 4/43 (10) England 2nd Innings 5/206 (Target 227 off 44 overs) K. Pietersen 62 R. Harris 2/21 (5) England not happy with Australia but after Manchester all I can say is karma's a b*tch! But well done England on winning the Ashes 3-0 and well done on coming to the party in that sporting chase we set up for you.

You're right HT, there's actually quite a few positives to come out of this tour. Apart from Lords it just seems we've lost the big moments in matches, crossed with some bad luck with the weather at both Old Trafford and here at The Oval. Looks as though we're going to see a draw here as after Englands positive start, their run rate has now dropped under 4. 154 needed off 27 overs and 9 wickets in hand but we'll see. I'll give the match till at least 20 overs remaining before I potentially give up.

Well done Brad Haddin on the keeper record for dismissals in a series. Great work and 9 more wickets to get in 38 overs! haha.

And news from cricinfo is that we have declared and England need 227 to win. Also because we did it over the tea break we don't loose 2 overs for switch over so England need 227 off 44 overs.

I don't necessarily think he's a poor captain. But I think he's very conservative and if they're to get to number 1 in the world for an extended period they need more attacking flair and be able to take more risks. I can't see them beating South Africa playing the cricket they play. And funnily enough I see more scope for improvement in our XI playing Clarke's brand of cricket compared to Englands XI and Cook's brand.

Tea on Day 5 Australia 1st Innings 9/492 dec S. Watson 176 S. Smith 138* J. Anderson 4/95 (29.5) G. Swann 2/95 (33) England 1st Innings 377 J. Root 68 K. Pietersen 50 J. Faulkner 4/51 (19.4) M. Starc 3/92 (33) Australia 2nd Innings 6/111 (In 23 overs!) M. Clarke 28* S. Watson 26 S. Braod 4/43 (10) J. Anderson 1/27 (6) Good on Clarke and Australia for pushing for a result. Lead is now 226 and if they declare over tea England will need 227 off 42 overs at just under 5.5 runs an over. Reckon we could see this happen. Poor form of Cook again not bowling Kerrigan. With the Aussies giving their wickets away chasing quick runs there was the perfect chance for the guy to get his first test wicket and some confidence. That's Cook's captaincy for you!