Grand New Flag

Here, here

This is what we should be doing.

Put Watts in as well. He needs some more experiance but is still some way off winning us a game.

No one has ever suggested that our players should not be trying as hard as they can to win every game. I for one would be disgusted in any player who did not give their all in any game.

This is more about the decisions that are made off the field than the players on the field. Play more youth, trial players in new positions, play all fring players that are at risk of being delisted (like Whitnal in 07), trial new game plans.

Players like: Newton, Valenti, Whelan, Mckenzie, Bartram, Johnson, Highes, who are all in the shot gun plus players like Watts, Bunnell, Cheney who need experience must all be played.

Whats wrong with resting players. West Coast has been resting Cox and Kerr for weeks without any heat, we don't even have any players of this calabre, so this should be easier for us.

At the end of the day if we follow this formula, play youth, experiment and trial players but we win, that is ok. At least our coaches have done everything possible and thats all I ask. We must not lose our priority pick without at least trying out all our youth.

Never should a player ever be asked not to do their best on the field. I am certain this will never happen, but this does not mean we can't do more to ensure our priority pick and thus help ensure our future.

Since when did Carlton limit themselves to operating within the AFL Rules?

Fair!

The point I am trying to make is trialing youth at the end of a dead season is sensible and inside the rules. Carton were never investigated for their 11 games losing streak in 2007. In fact Carlton could not sign stand in coach Ratten quick enough despite a 0 and 8 record. .

Congratulations Dees, on winning two in a row. We have seen the improvement, we have not been smashed by more than 10 goals all season, things are definitely on the up! But lets not watch with red and blue glasses, lets not kid ourselves that we have a future premiership list after winning two in a row. Lets be realistic, lets only be satisfied in a Flag. A Grand New Flag.

Looking at our list our recruiting managers have a very difficult job finding six or seven players to delist this season. The blatant old, dead, wood of the previous two seasons is no longer their (well only a couple). Some young talent will need to be delisted this season. Its just life.

The way I see it we are now in the perfect position to trial many young players who are in the mix of being delisted. We should be gradually getting these players into the team over the next 3 weeks, ensuring that by the time we play Richmond in round 18 a very inexperienced team is on the field.

Players like Newton should be brought in for a 5 week trial. If Newton fails his contract should be paid out. If he finally performs we have another forward. All fringe players young or old should be trailed, after all delisting are coming and we will not be playing finals in 2009 .

Dean Baileys comments in today’s paper are exactly what he should have said and exactly what I expected him to say, however, the reality is our list is no where good enough to threaten for a Premiership even in 4- 5 years. Our midfield in particular is slow and short on class. We need our priority pick and Scully, we deserve our priority pick and Scully and its time this club stood up and completed what it has started in a complete rebuild. This is not just about winning it’s about our very future as a struggling Melbourne club.

Casey have had two massive wins in a row, there will never be a better time to justifiably select several fringe players for a run in the seniors. Wake up Melbourne the football opportunity of our generation is slipping away, we must not lose our priority pick without at least trying out all our youth. Can I remind everyone that West Coast have been resting Kerr and Cox for the last 3 weeks and no one cares. Please, please let’s rest some players as well, we will not even have to be as blatant as the West Coast as we don’t have any stars of the calibre of Cox and Kerr.

Players like: Newton, Valenti, Whelan, Mckenzie, Bartram, Johnson, Highes, who are all in the shot gun plus players like Watts, Bunnell, Cheney who need experience must all be played.

It would be such a Melbourne thing to do to stuff this up. After winning just 6 games out of 57 we will miss out on a priority pick winning 4 or the next 9. The thing that really upsets me is that we are beating teams like West Coast that have significantly better lists (West Coast thrashed the Bulldogs earlier this season) and are blatantly playing their youth not that interested in winning.

There is a reason why Melbourne is an embarrassing minnor of the AFL while Carlton and West Coasts are powerhouses. Carlton and West Coast take their opportunities and are prepared to do what ever it takes INSIDE THE RULES of the AFL. If that means resting champions and playing youth so be it.

If MFC fails to take this opportunity they will continue to be an embarrassing, minnor of the competition, we will watch the power houses West Coast and Carlton win premierships, we will complain on these forums about the opportunity lost and the poor sportsmanship of the stronger clubs while we play Sunday games to empty stadiums, relying on the AFL for survival.

But guess what?

NO ONE OUTSIDE THE CLUB WILL BE LISTENING LET ALONE CARE!

PLEASE, PLEASE PLAY FOR A PREMIERSHIP AND SEIZE THIS OPPORTUNITY!

Can't see how you loved the win then

Yep, its a strange mix of emotions.

Loved the win................ but walked home shattered.

Scully - Gone

PP - Gone

This is stupidity and will cost us for the next decade and make it that much harder to win a flag with this group.

I have nothing positive to say.

Bate - becoming an important player. Another good game.

Bell - injury will end career. Will get cut.

Bruce - Outstanding today.

Davey - A heavy tag and well beaten by K. Cornes. However still showed class.

Dunn - Was very impressive. A break out game?

Frawley - continues good form.

Green - Another great game. Please make him captain 2010.

Grimes - quieter today, but continues to impress

Jamar - A genuine ruckman. Impressive around the ground. I never thought I would see this day.

Jetta - A poor mans Davey. Needs to improve disposal. Defensive pressure A grade.

Jones - quite but couragous

Jurrah - Its only the begining. Big things to come. Can't wait to see this guy after a pre-season.

Martin - continues utility apprenticeship with style, but not error free.

McDonald - a fair day at the office, but the sun has almost set.

McLean - Enjoys the slower pace against bottom teams. Was very good.

Moloney - exhilarating and powerful. Continues his great season. Mid season form lapse over.

Morton - An exciting return to form. A big summer in the gym beakons.

Petterd - by far hs best game yet. A break out game?

Rivers - Rivers of old. Rivers of GOLD!

Robertson - continued to take best defender, sometimes had two on him, allowing Jurrah to excell.

Warnock - Simply outstanding. Gave Tredrea a touching up.

Wheatley - Thought he was good. Still playing for his career. Still in the mix. Some unforced errors.

Best way not to win:

Bring in Newton!

If we get to 4 wins before round 22, I would bring Newton in to ensure we don't get that 5th win. We could play him FF, make sure we always kick it to him and then wait for his trusty right boot to kick us point after point from set shots inside 35m or simply watch the ball effortlessly rebounded from lack of forward pressure. These simple misses and easy rebounds will create a negative psyche that will drift through the team, further weakening the side. The Demons of 2009 are only good enough to win when they take their opportunities. Newton is certain to waist our scoring opportunities and therefore this one move would be enough to ensure a loss. At least we know Newton is good for not taking his/our opportunities.

At seasons end I would payout Newton’s contract. No point in keeping him on the list at the cost of a young player with potential. Paying him out would also reward Newton for failing for us (ensuring PP in the draft) and also reward supporters who will no longer have to painfully watch him (especially the ones who also watch Casey). Most importantly paying Newton out would be doing a favour to the man himself. He would never need to embarrass himself on National TV again and at the same time still paid (for one year).

If we do this all involved could end up a winner from what appears to be a no win situation.

I agree its been great to see Rivers back. He missed the best of 3 years football and he has been streadily improving as the season has gone on. I would not say he is back to his best yet but if he can stay on the feild for the rest of the season and not get injured, he will come back next season fit, comfident and ready to take his game to the next level.

The same goes to both Moloney and Sylvia.

The only people who think Carlton have a bad smell are opposition supporters. Do you really think they'll care if they get to hold up the cup. For [censored]'s sake, most of Carlton's premeirships have come this way, including when they had the bulk of the Essendon team conscripted to the army in WW1 and went on to win the premeirship. They are ruthless and play this game to win. It doesn't matter if Melbourne lose all the remaining games, noone will even notice, let alone care. And you know what, these same people won't be surprised if we win 5 games and lose the PP, they'll just laugh at us again and say once again we've blown it. You see if we win we lose and I for one am sick of losing. You can go off and watch us chalk up a few more meaningless wins and walk away with I don't know what but I actually want us to lose. You know why I want us to lose, because for once I want us to WIN.

Roost It and Hannable,

I completely 100% agree with your point of view which is my view too.

Two things are certain:

1: AFL Football is a game about taking your opportunities

2: if we win 5 games we will be the laughing stock of the media, of other clubs, of supporters and the general football community.

Everyone thinks we deserve a PP and everyone expects us to get it. Hell even Scully has excepted that he is going to the MFC. We are after all a very poor team. We have been a terrible, horrible, team for the last 3 years. We have been by far the worst in the comp due to an overdue complete list over hall. The PP was designed for clubs exactly in our position. I want wins and I want a premiership (just one in my life time will do me) and I am smart enough to know that we need everything to go right and to successfully take every opportunity to win that premiership. I don't want to be 1 or 2 "A" list players short of a premiership team when this list matures. I want our club to become successful and wealthy. I want Friday night and Saturday games against big clubs. This comes with success. The more games you win the more members you get and the higher attendances you get both at the game and on TV. This results in higher sponsorship and higher returns, but to get to this point you need to be a top four team for many years, a top team that wins premierships. To become a top team you must be prepared to take short term pain, you must take your recruiting opportunities.

We must get our PP at the cost of.................. playing some kids, trying players in new positions and testing some game plans for a few games with the emphasis being on development rather than winning.

Clubs that are not going to make the finals have done this forever into the end of the season, even when there was no PP up for grabs.

What is the big deal?

Seems like a no brainer. I for one will lose confidence in the off field leaders of our club if they fail to take this opportunity.

Yes we need Miller in as we can't afford to win this one.

Don't you mean Newton.

If we get to 4 wins before round 22, I would bring Newton in to ensure we don't get that 5th win. We could play him FF, make sure we always kick it to him and then wait for his trusty right boot to kick us point after point from set shots inside 35m or simply watch the ball effortlessly rebounded from lack of forward pressure. These simple misses and easy rebounds will create a negative psyche that will drift through the team, further weakening the side. The Demons of 2009 are only good enough to win when they take their opportunities. Newton is certain to waist our scoring opportunities and therefore this one move would be enough to ensure a loss. At least we know Newton is good for not taking his/our opportunities.

At seasons end I would payout Newton’s contract. No point in keeping him on the list at the cost of a young player with potential. Paying him out would also reward Newton for failing for us (ensuring PP in the draft) and also reward supporters who will no longer have to painfully watch him (especially the ones who also watch Casey). Most importantly paying Newton out would be doing a favour to the man himself. He would never need to embarrass himself on National TV again and at the same time still paid (for one year).

If we do this all involved could end up a winner from what appears to be a no win situation.

Here are my selections!

Out:

Sylvia: Suspended - a blessing in disguise. Sylvia can keep his groins rested because Sylvia without OP is suddenly a top 50 (in AFL) player. We want him in this form next year when a win is a win and a loss is what it should be........ a loss. Happy to have him off the field for this danger game against Port (danger of winning).

Morton: Has played every game of the season but seems to have gone off the boil. Needs to go back to Casey and get his hands on the ball a bit more. I have no doubt that Morton will develop into an "A" list player, but right now he needs to go back to Casey and find some touch.

In:

Dunn: The natural replacement for Sylvia and should be given a similar role. Needs to take on the game in the same way as does for Casey. If he does he will save his career, if he does not he is in serious trouble come years end. I actually think he will suprise to the upside.

Watts: No reason not to play him. The club is looking to get 8 - 10 games under his belt this season (quote from Connolly). School holidays, at the MCG and Watts will be well rested after being ill last weekend. We must continue to invest in Watts.

We all hate Robbo playing for frees and his game is not faultless. However to suggest he should be delisted for this is ridicules.

It was great to see Robbo back in form last weekend. He went along way to winning us the game... again.

I am sick of negative threads on Robbo. I am sick of people saying he should be delisted. Robbo haters remember this:

1. Robbo is coming off a very serious injury that kept him out of the game for 12 months.

2. Robbo has had no pre-season (at all)

3. Robbo gets terrible supply week in, week out

4. Robbo takes the number one backman most week despite not being a true KPP. In a strong team he would play in the pocket or off the flank, would have the 3rd or 4th defender and not rotate through FF and CHF.

5. Robbo chose to stay with Melbourne at the end of 2007 knowing that he would probably never play finals football again and would be nothing more than a mentor in a rebuilding team. He decided to stay despite a longer and more lucrative offer from the Western Bulldogs who's premiership window is open.

6. Robbo has been an outstanding, excitement machine who has given us all many, many memorable moments and won many games for us off his own boot. We would not have won without him on Saturday. Yes he is a show pony at times, but I for one love it. I love what he brings to the game and I love what he has done for the club. He is probably the only proven match winner on our list at the moment.

Robbo needs to be re-signed to another 2 year contract!

Come to think of it he will be definitely re-signed (for at least a year probably two).

Thank god some of you guys don’t work in our recruiting department as you truly have no idea.

Dear God. Look mate, thats the way he plays and I'll take it. For every time it doesnt come off, it's produces something 4 times. It will be a sad, sad day when Robbo leaves this club a terrific bloke, greta player and ambassador for our club. I'm sick of that hate he gets around here

I am with you Anders.

I am sick of people getting stuck into Robbo. Robbo haters remember this:

1. Robbo is coming off a very serious injury that kept him out of the game for 12 months.

2. Robbo has had no pre-season (at all)

3. Robbo gets terrible supply week in, week out

4. Robbo takes the number one backman most week despite not being a true KPP. In a strong team he would play in the pocket or off the flank, would have the 3rd or 4th defender and not rotate through FF and CHF.

5. Robbo chose to stay with Melbourne at the end of 2007 knowing that he would probably never play finals football again and would be nothing more than a mentor in a rebuilding team. He decided to stay despite a longer and more lucrative offer from the Western Bulldogs who's premiership window is open.

6. Robbo has been an outstanding, excitement machine who has given us all many, many memorable moments and won many games for us off his own boot. We would not have won without him on Saturday. Yes he is a show pony at times, but I for one love it. I love what he brings to the game and I love what he has done for the club. He is probably the only proven match winner on our list at the moment.

Robbo needs to be resigned to another 2 year contract!

Come to think of it he will be definitely re-signed (for at least a year probably two).

Thank god some of you guys don’t work in our recruiting department as you truly have no idea.

We should play Newton.

Of course not. They must play hard, they must play to win.

Its called "list management".

Plenty of young players to try out. Plenty of positions to try them in. Plenty of set plays to experiment with. Plenty of game plans to experiment with.

It was fantastic win on the weekend that I enjoyed very much.

However, I want more wins, I want many more wins for many years........ hell I want a premiership. Our focus must be on the future. We NEED our priority pick. WE NEED SCULLY!

I want to build for the future, I believe we must get pick 1, 2 & 18 or 1, 3 & 18 to have any realistic chance of building premiership list rather than a finals list.

With easier games against other bottom teams Richmond, North Melbourne, and Fremantle to come, plus a chance of delivering an upset along the way, we simply can't afford a win this weekend if we are to stay under 5 wins and collect our deserved dues.

I will be happy to lose both Sylvia and Davey for one week suspended.

Also lucky Port won on the weekend and their finals hopes are still alive.

It has become obvious in the last 3 weeks that we are simply not good enough to win 5 games this season.

Therefore we will either get picks 1 & 2 or 1 & 3.

From all reports Scully is a standout and their is little to split the next 3 players in the draft. Thus it makes little difference to us if WC win 5 games or not. Personally, I expect them to win several more games this season.

We must win this week. For Jimmy, for our supporters, for our pride.

Draft picks are no longer an issue........... we will get them.

Is this club ever going to get lucky again?

I would say we got lucky with Jim Stynes being prepared to take on the club 12 months ago. The MFC could well be in its last year if it was not for him. We were seriously close to extinction. People don't realise how close we were. The turn around in a short period of time is simply outstanding and amazing. We are indeed lucky to have been saved. We are indeed lucky to have Big Jim.

Get well quickly Jimmy!!

You are a great man!

Don't forget Jack Viney.

I recently sat next to his coach of the last 2 years (until this year) at a wedding. He said Todd Viney's son was the most complete junior player he has ever seen and player APS first 18 for Carey as a year 9 student and is now playing for North Adelaide where from all reports he is dominating. He said that in all his years he has never seen a player split the game apart like Viney. He said he was super fast, strong and had all the skills (as a 15yo). He said that he believed he would be a superstar and if the 2011 draft was today he would go number 1.

Now here is the good part.

As long as the father son rules are not changed in the next 27 months:

Melbourne will get him on the father son rule.

Apparently Jack Viney is a Hawthorn supporter (as Todd has been an assistant coach there) but has moved with his family back to Adelaide as Todd is now an assistant with the Crows. Despite Jack Viney being a Hawthorn supporter he has accepted that his future is almost certainly with the Demons. He has two choices. 1: Go into the 2011 draft and almost certainly end up with the new West Sydney (or maybe Tasmanian) team or go to the Dees. It will cost Melbourne its first or second round draft pick in 2011 depending on how other clubs rate him.

Lets hope we can snag another number one draft pick with the father/son rule in 2011. Add this to the mid field mix for 2012 as it will happen. We have no chance of making the finals until 2012 so this is potentially excellent news

I'll boot up Powerpoint.

Quality!

But seriously this thread is a waiste if of silicon!

Why don't we talk about ghosts or alien invasions or some other make believe topic?

I'm thinking we're going to win about 6 games next year, Finishing, either with the wooden spoon, or 2nd bottom, to perhaps Fremantle.

This would possibly see us, in draft terms recieve pick 4 or 6.

It seems, due to no priority picks being allocated for 2010, that all teams will stretch their efforts to retain as much "Face" as possible.

Gc-17 will recieve picks 1,2,3,-,5,-,7,-,9,-----,15, & 1st pick of each round.

I am pretty sure that PP still exist next year. I have seen no official documentation to the contary. Are you sure this is the case and if so can you point out where the AFL has said this?

If god forbid we fail to win 5 games again in 2010 I think we will get pick 1 & 4.

Just one thing: Every show that mentions his 'readiness,' or lack thereof, show the clip of him being brought down by Alwyn Davey.

Experienced men get taken down by Alwyn Davey...

I saw it as a positive when I saw the picture that showed Jack getting a handball away as he was being tackled. Showed a bit of strength and a quick mind.

Exactly!

He was passed the ball when he was almost flat footed. The Davies are super fast and great tacklers. I think every player in the league would have been in trouble in that situation.

Watts did well to get rid of the ball legally and forward.

I would really love for the media to give this Watts issue a rest and let us do what we know is best for him.

The club works with him daily, while the media replays the Davey tackle over and over again. FFS, if we didn't play him at all this year they would have just continued to ask "when will Watts play?" at every press conference we had.

Now he's playing, and they are saying we played him for the wrong reasons, or he isn't ready, or he is being damaged.

What will Watts learn at VFL that he can't at AFL level?

Will he get any bigger playing for Casey? will he adapt to the pace of AFL playing for Casey? will he understand Melbourne's game plan better when he plays with Casey?

The kid can kick, mark, make great decisions by hand and foot... he doesn't have any deficiencies that can be worked on at a lower level. The only thing he needs is time, weight and experience.

If he doesn't play, it's because he is physically and mentally due for a rest, or he has school commitments, not because he "isn't ready". Of course he isn't ready, he won't be for 2 years.

That doesn't mean that gaining experience at the top level isn't valuable. In fact, it's likely to fast-track his career.

If Watts is happy to play out the year, and his body passes the test, I hope we play him. Even if he spends the rest of the year collection 2 possessions a game.

If he or the club want him to go back to Casey to play at a lower intensity to gain some touch, or some confidence, that's fine too.

Jaded: I do not agree with more than about 30% of what you write but on this occasion your opinion is identical to mine.

I simply can't see why we would not play him. As I have previously said, I spent much of Fridays game watching JW regardless of where the ball was. He got better as the game went on and was unlucky not to have been passed the ball while he was free inside the 50m on 4 other occasions. Yes: he is raw, he lacks experience, at times he looked lost (especially in the first quarter), and he struggles to stick tackles, but these things can only be rectified with AFL game time, not with time at Casey. 9 possessions and 2 goals in 65% of the game on Fletcher is not too bad for a rookie and certainly better than the debut of other key position players Reiwolt and Brown who were both equally highly regarded juniors as Watts.

Playing on experienced champions like Fletcher will only further fast track his development.

Play the kid!