Grand New Flag

I say no to Newton.

Talk about a spud. It is an insult to our club and all other players who have ever been delisted for him to still be on our list (be it as a mature age rookie).

He was a great aid while we were tanking. It was fantastic list management for our FD to play him during this time. Now those days are behind us so should Newton be gone.

Please, please don't humiliate our guernsey, our club our supporters, our players by letting us see him in the red and blue ever again. I even cringe at the thought of him playing in China.

There is a guy in the VFL who won his team's B&F at FF, kicked a heap of goals. Tall, tough, leadership material. 26 or 27 I think.

My thoughs exactly!

Personally, I was disappointed with Millers axing. Not saying he does not have limitations, just thought he was a good depth player who could make a contest at FF.

According to HUN, the dogs have taken Josh Hill off the table.

A bad miss. Personally I would have paid up (swapped first round picks), but saying that I trust the FD, they have done a great job over the last 3 seasons, this is their job and they know best.

I don't know much about either Eddy or Geary. Can someone help?

The more I think about it the more I warm to the idea of Hale.

Plenty will disagree, but I think we should be prepared to go harder than the deal on the table if required. At the end of the day he is worth more to us than the open market. We have two blatant weaknesses in our team:

1. A decent second ruckman, who can go forward and kick a goal (Spencer may well come good but he is still a couple of years away)

2. A big bodied FF.

Simply with Hale we strike both these weaknesses in one player. Further the new rules increase Hales value.

We have a team that will come good as they grow. Hale more than plugs our holes.

I am hearing that we are very close to securing Hale. NM may hold out a little longer hoping for a better deal but this is unlikley. It would now seem highly likely he ends up in Red and Blue

The difference between pick 12 and pick 17, in this draft with all the 17 year olds already taken is almost insignificant. You could say its luck of the player you choose.

Effectively this is a second round offer. I think this offer is fair. I don't think we are paying overs. Its what we need.

In my opinion St.Kilda have lost 2 premierships due to bad trading.

If St.Kilda had of taken Cousins in 2008 they would have beaten Geelong last year.

If St.Kilda had of traded Ball and traded for someone else fast instead of Lovett they would have won this year.

Must be very hard to swallow.

This article says Hale is on $425,000 per season with two years to run!!!!

Also talks about Bruce holding out for a two year contract.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dees-bruce-in-contract-limbo-as-he-holds-out-for-longer-deal-20101004-164bw.html

I have writen many, many threads saying the same thing.

The logic and reality of this can't be argueed with him.

Judd not coming to Melbourne was the best thing for both him and us and Juddy (a mate of mine) was the first to admit this.

For what its worth, I spoke to Hutchy last Friday night adn he said no Melbourne players would go to the GC. I mentioned both Jones & Bruce and he said the danger of them leaving is much closer to home than the GC.

For what its worth I spoke with an agent from the Connors camp who said exactly the same thing.

I hope nothing I've written above is interpreted as being against Chris Judd winning the Brownlow. He polled 30 votes and that's enough by me to make him a worthy winner, especially given that he missed the first three games of the season. He lucked out with the match review panel but that's part of the fascinating game of roulette that the AFL judicial system has become. In fact, most things about AFL decisions are random so why not when it comes down to whether a player should be suspended. The fact remains that Judd's a champion player and we shouldn't forget that even if we don't like what he or his management did to get him to Carlton.

By the same token, as much as I hate Collingwood, I have enough respect for what they've done this year not to be churlish about them this week and I wouldn't begrudge them the flag if they were to win on Saturday in Round 26. We can all laugh about Eddie's demeanour on seeing Dane Swan miss out on the Brownlow but at least his team is in the big one and deservedly so.

That said, I will still be barracking hard for the Saints right through to the final siren.

here, here

You've been a very good advocate here for the Chris Judd camp and I'm not doubting you when you say that you know him and that he's given you his version of the events of three years ago.

That version is however, at odds with the information passed on to me and to others by a then board member of Carlton who confirmed that an official of the club had been in contact with Judd and his management as early as June 2007 and that by early August 2007 he was "in the bag". The same board member told me at the time (i.e about three weeks before the end of the home and away season) that a number of players were being put on ice for the rest of the year (including Fevola), that Melbourne was "a monty"'to win it's Round 22 game against Carlton and that getting the priority draft pick was crucial to the club's strategy of getting Judd across to the club. All of this took place before Judd announced his intention to leave West Coast.

Subsequently, I met the same board member when the Judd decision was imminent. At that time, the decision was between the four clubs which he was going to interview - Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon and Melbourne. I think the media had the Pies as the favourite to win his services with us as a chance followed by the Blues. Essendon was a rank outsider. The Carlton official was adamant that Judd was in the bag, that none of the other clubs were capable of matching the financial package offered and he scoffed at the possibility that he could end up at Melbourne. He said we were "wasting our time".

In the end, everything he said proved to be true. Media reports later confirmed that Steven Icke had met Judd in Perth in July. Judd's revelation about his friendship with Greg Swann being the main factor getting him to the club further confirms that scenario. The reports of the Carlton financial deal also tend to support the fact that it was far superior to our offer and we're all in agreement that the lame story about Melbourne's poor training facilities being the deal breaker was, in your words "[censored]" (so how do we know what parts of the rest of his story are [censored]?).

I've been convinced ever since that the entire process of meeting four clubs was a charade. It was all a business decision that he and his management were entitled to make but the way it was handled by his management was poor from my perspective. The MFC and its supporters were treated with contempt and that's why I always greet Judd's "I supported the Dees as a kid" line with the same amount of contempt.

Incidentally, I was against us chasing Judd in the first place back then because I also believed that if we were going to rebuild, it had to be a total process and not one based upon putting most of our eggs in the Judd basket and that was leaving aside the enormous cost in financial terms to get him. There were also salary cap issues which I believed might exist at the time but which now, thanks to new interpretations of what comes under total player payments, have been airbrushed out of the equation. Dollar for dollar, it's gratifying to know that Juddy's almost as good an environmental ambassador as he is a footballer. Anyway, given the financial woes that the club was suffering from at the time, I would suggest that the securing of Judd might well have bankrupted us and we might have been preparing for 2011 as the Gold Coast Demons.

Bottom line: In hindsight, while Judd was and is a great footballer, he wasn't a good fit for Melbourne in 2008 and Melbourne wasn't a good fit for Judd either. And, I'm happy with the fact that he went to Carlton and not to us.

Thanks WJ,

You may be surprised but I agree with most of what you say here, I just have a different slant on it. By joining our information we can probably get a pretty good idea what actually happened. It is clear that Juddy met Carlton before leaving Perth and it is also clear that Carlton were front runner from the beginning. However, I have been told (but cant confirm) that Melbourne and probably others had also met Juddy during 2007. I don't believe the interview process was a charade, I am convinced it was not. There was no point in having an interview process if he had of already made up him mind. He is not the sort of person who puts on a media show for the sake of it, he is not the sort of person who bullshits around, to the contrary he goes to incredible lengths to keep out of the public eye as much as possible. He does the absolute minimum public appearances that he can get away with, even going as far as refusing to sell his Wedding Photos. I also don't believe that Juddy has simply lied to me about wanting to go to the Dees after his interview, but the reality was that we were not in the right spot.

At the end of the day Carlton were probably front runner and after the interview process and the reality of where Melbourne was at, Carlton was confirmed.

The right decision was made for all.

Just a couple of loose ends:-

1. I thought Garry Lyon but not Jimmy was involved in the negotiations to get Judd. Surprised therefore that there was a meeting involving him at that time because Jim didn't become President till mid 2008, and

2. Surprised also that Visy would have been involved in a commercial arrangement with Melbourne at that time given that Dick Pratt was the boss of both Carlton and Visy. Actually, more than surprised - amazed!

In Reply:

1. Yes I can confirm the meeting was with Jim and Gary despite Jim not yet being President yet. Others were also involved.

2. I never said that the commercial deal was with Visy. I said it was a Visy like deal. It was with another company in which a member of our previous board was closely associated with. I know more but would prefer to leave it at this.

I am not on hear big noting myself rather just giving you infomation I think members would be interested in and also I get fed up with the [censored] which I constantly hear on here about Juddy. If you choose not to beleive me thats fine.

Wouldn't he have gone to Collingwood if he wanted a premiership. Carlton are no closer than us.

I think you'll find that money motivates the man.

Simply, WC would not deal with Collingwood. When forced were not prepared to trade 2 first round draft picks (or equivalent) and could not fit Juddy into their salary cap.

If all that is true, and again, it might be, why the spin and the [censored]? Why not come out and say that?

Does he think he'll be made to look like a tool, when in hindsight our list is probably as good if not better than Carlton's? (which I agree, it probably wouldn't have been had he agreed to play for us).

It's the flat out lying that shits me. He never had the guts to come out and say "this is why I chose Carlton", he just went on to rubbish other clubs and point out things like training facilities (back when Princess Park was a crapheap mind you).

At the end of the day he is an incredible footballer, who got lucky last night because he is surrounded by utter mediocracy, he knows it, and we know it.

I don't wish him or the filthy scumbags he plays for any success whatsoever, and he can keep his gushing about our club to himself. Nobody cares what he thinks about us now.

Jaded: It was not Juddys place to talk publically about the MelbourneFC list, nor is it his place to talk about the reasons why he did not choose our club. Comments like this open a can of worms, create unwanted attention and further fracture a club. Juddy said as little as possible publicly. The training facility thing was always [censored] but much more politically correct than saying "the list is old, slow and on a fast decline, it needs a complete rebuild, they can't win a premiership in my career and as such I am choosing Carlton."

Also remember that in 2007, Melbourne had a host of other problems. We had boardroom decent and were financially inept. Under such circumstances Juddys decision to say nothing was the best decision for us and him.

I can't believe posters are complaining that a Collingwood player, who was odds on favourite failed to win a brownlow.

I think this is awesome and hope that this sets the stage for an agonising loss on the weekend. Personally I hate Collingwood so much that I enjoy any loss inflicted on them. The more their pain the greater my pleasure. The more poeple think Swan was robbed (which he was not) the more I enjoy it. Well done Juddy!

Anyone but Collingwood.

Judd is a class act both on and off the field. He enriches our game. He is a credit to himself, his club and the AFL. He is an outstanding character and footballer who I have had the privilege of getting to know on a personal level. His reasons for choosing Carlton over Melbourne was only a result of 2007 being the start of the great Melbourne rebuild rather than the end (like Carlton). If he had of come to the Dees we would not have the list we have now and still be as far away from a premiership as we have ever been. He did not go to Carlton for the money. In the end there was very little monetary difference between the Melbourne and Carlton offers and associated offer (Melbourne had a Visy lined up as well). Juddy once told me that he left the meeting with Stynes and Lyon rang up Bec and said "I am going to Melbourne". Some time after this reality set in. He wants to win a Premiership and mark my words if Juddy had come to Melbourne at the end of 2007 he and the MFC would not have any chance of winning a premiership in his career. Give credit to the guy for doing the right thing by us and himself.

I have watched a couple Melbourne games with Juddy and I can report he still has a soft spot for our team. (No he will never play for us.) He was speaking highly of Frawley in 2008 before most on this site could see the talent. He was no fan of Robo (dropped to the ground too much, no defensive pressure), but rates Trengrove the highest of all our young guns. He thinks Melbourne is now a potential premiership list but warns me that it is going to take much longer than we would like to think.

Those who are paying Juddy out should stop. It sounds like sour grapes. You are discrediting yourselves.

Congratulations on a well deserved second Brownlow Juddy!

I support the Melbourne Football Club, god bless it, long live it and all those who play and support it (especially Jim).

I also support the ABCs. Anyone But Collingwood. I am very proud of the fact I went to two Collingwood Grand Fianls against an interstate team and proudly, loudly supported the interstate team (Brisbane). In 2003 I took my camera and nearly got beat up for taking photos of crying Collingwood scum supporters. I loved it!!! This year I want to see Eddie cry. Outside of a Melbourne Flag, a narrow loss to Collingwood in a Grand Final is the second best result.

Go Saints!

I said it before and I will say it agian.

No need for concern with JV. According to the Connors camp who he has either signed with or is poised to sign with, he will become a Dee. They have met with him and this is the feedback.

I would love to see Alwyn as a Dee, but only for a late pick (30s) or similar mid range player.

You may well find that both brothers become better players playing together. I think this potential upside is worth the risk.

I can confirm the Suns have interest in Miller and will probably take him.

I don't think we will be compensated as he is already delisted, further we could still lose another player to the Suns for the same reason.

My guess Is the club wants to announce a heap of signings at once. Once they're all done we'll hear about It.

You are 100% right. I can confirm that the club is about to announce a number of signings in one shot. This will include JW. I can confirm that all players out of the Connors tent (minus Miller) are re-signed or in the final stages of being re-signed. There is no risk on losing any of these players.

Calm down children.

Jack Viney WILL become a demon. I will not mention names but he has already signed with a well known football manager. That manager is personal friends of mine who also looks after many on our list. We had a discussion about JV (and others) while skiing a couple of weeks ago. Jack will nominate Melbourne under Father/Son.

The fact that Adelaide is prepared to put such effort into someone who is for them a complete long shot is further evidence on how highly this kid is regarded in football circles. If the 2012 National Draft was today he would be the number 1 draft pick with daylight to the next player. Word is that he would be good enough for AFL senior football round 1 next year let alone round 1 2013. He will be our Joel Selwood