Demonic Ascent

Not to single your post out as it has been mentioned in a few, but what is the point in signing a heads of agreement if it's not binding? As I said before, I'll take Scully at his word at this stage. He said he has not signed anything nor has his manager or parents. He said he has not spoken to GWS, nor has his manager or family. He seems like an honest kidand I'm willing to take him at his word at this stage especially when compared to flakes like Maher & Sheahan.

+1 Who is this "impeccable source"? Gubby Allen? Maher is a joke. Listen to him sometimes on SEN Morning Glory and he's always dribbling [censored] just to be "controversial" and create some interest in the program. If he didn't do that who would bother calling up?

So he is calling Scully a liar? Forgive me but I'll take Scully's word over Andy Maher or any of his "impeccable sources".

Usually I hate the off-season but I actually cannot wait for this season to be over just so that we can get this crap dealt with. I trust Scully when he says he hasn't signed or spoken to anyone as he stated in the rpess conference before the season. I can also understand holding out for a better deal as any smart manager would tell his client to do. I don't really buy the CBA stuff as that can be worked into a contract. My money is on him staying but christ the uncertainty is nauseating. And BTW, to prove this club has moved ahead with the times into the 21st century, we need to be working hard behind the scenes to work up an added salary for him outside the cap as the Blues do with Visy (not just for Judd). I remember last year the papers saying there were at least 100 or so of these deals in the AFL (about 1 in every 7 or 8 players) its not just a Judd/Visy deal and these are A-OK according to the AFL. We need to start working on these things behind the scenes in order to be able to compete especially with limited free agency coming in.

How many games has he missed? 2? Plus most of the Saints game. I think I'd rather he come back through Casey - make every player earn their spot in this side. If he were to come back who would he replace? MacDonald? He's played well since coming in. Strauss, Evans, Nicholson? Bit harsh, none of them have done much wrong in the seniors so far.

Of course the media want to beat it up controversy sells papers especially when it is about one of the smaller Vic clubs. Therefore stories about Murphy, Thomas, Swan etc "close to signing" will sell better than stories about them on the verge of leaving because that's what the targt audience wants to read. Sheahan has been in this game a long time he is not stupid and knows where his bread is buttered. I think Scully will stay though have nothing to base this on other than his word. I would be surprised if the board are not looking at all options in keeping him though including a Visy-type deal now that the AFL has OK'd these. Surely there is some wealthy MFC supporting barrister who can pay the kid a couple of hundred grand to drop some documents if for them once a year. Or an MFC patron who can organize him to be the face of Bulla for the next few snow seasons. There are opportunities outthere we just have to think outside the box.

IN: Trengove, Scully, Gawn, Howe, Blease, Bartram OUT: Morton, Newton, Bate, MacDonald, Jetta, Evans/Nicholson Unlucky for one of the recent debutants to get dropped but I think we need to go in with as strong a team as possible to try and roll the Dons. Strauss unlucky not to be named and Petterd/Jurrah/Warnock lucky to be playing after last week.

It may be damning but thats the way it is. Sure, not all of them will need some external motivator but in a group of ~42 (including rookies) some of them will and as a group they will need the coach to focus them (on the game plan, on their opponents, on their motivation). If this weren't the case why would we even have a coach in the first place? Do you think the likes of Malthouse, Matthews & Sheedy made no difference to the motivation and focus of their teams?

I agree it is up to the players to an extent; the coach cant go out and play for them. But it is up to the coach to lead the club and instill this in the players. Daniher couldn't do it and it doesn't look like Bailey can either. This is stuff that needs to be addressed consistently ( ie not just after one game or a sledging in th media) on the training track, at the selection table, in the game plan and in the rooms. Only then when it is consistently addressed and hammered into the players and the club at large will things start to change. This is what is meant by that intangible "culture". Carlton, essendon and hawthorn have a no compromises win at all cost culture. We have a pissweak near enough is good enough, you tried your best, don't hurt our boys culture.

I agree but someone had to say it and it seems like the message either isn't being delivered or isn't being received internally so if it takes someone outside the club to say it then so be it. This is what EVERY club in the AFL thinks of us and have for quite some time (probably since the late 60's-early 70's). I am sick of supporting a PISSWEAK club, I want a no-nonsense, no compromises club. Sheedy was a scumbag who recruited players like Dean Wallis, Roger Merrett and the Johnsons and he has 4 premierships as a coach. Leigh Matthews was charged for smacking Neville Bruns behind the play how many flags did he get? Dermie and Rhys-Jones - thugs with medallions. More recently Hawthorn in 2008 playing unsociable footy - premiers. Port in 2004 with Carr, Pickett etc won a flag and should have had at least one more. I'm sick of supporting these downhill skiers who are scared to put their bodies on the line for their club, who are scared to stick up for their mates on the field and who would rather whinge and point at each other than take the initiative to take the game by the scruff of the neck and LEAD their team mates to victory. One of the most pleasing things I have seen over the last month (probably the only pleasing thing) is Jack Watts showing that he actually wants to do this, his body just won't let him yet. Give him 2-3 more years and he will be leading this team to victory, mark my words. Guys like Sylvia, Moloney & Jones try their hardest but either don't have the skill or don't have the suppport to lift the team. But you don't have to be built like these guys to put your body on the line. Look at Toovey getting crunched going back with the flight. Look at Riewoldt going back with the flight against the Swans when he was only 22 or so. These guys have a manic desire to win the footy, win the game and do what it takes to get their club over the line. I don't see that in many of our guys, particularly those who have been there from the Daniher/Corcoran era - some of the enw guys are showing signs but we need to either instill it in the rest or weed them out and stop rewarding mediocrity; you know the same type of mediocrity that almost saw Yze beat Stynes' record for consecutive games even though he was a squib.

I hate Mitch Robinson but he was 100% correct. Have a look at how other teams set up when there is a stoppage in our forward half or we have control of ball moving forward. Pretty much every player on the field is within a kick and a half of the ball carrier. Now have a look at how we set up. Against the Blues the ball was deep on the Northern stand wing and players like Morton and Green are standing on their own 100 metres away on the other side of the ground hoping for someone else to do the hard work and flick the ball out to them for easy possessions. Now this may be playing to instruction or this may be the players looking for cheap bruise-free possessions. Either way it is an indictment on our club. I rarely abuse our players at the footy but on Friday night I was at my wits end. Players like Morton, Petterd, Jurrah, Green, Bennell etc etc all looking to play bruise-free footy. It is weak and makes our club look weak and makes me embarrassed to be there watching and supporting that crap. This week I want to see Scully, Trengove, Gawn, Howe and Blease in the team. In the Age article it said Howe could be a chance but the selectors may err on the side of choosing Dunn for experience. All I can say is what is the point if that experience is rubbish and Howe has been playing well in the 2s? Give the kid a chance he couldnt do any worse than Petterd, Jurrah or Bate did the other night. PS – I don’t care what they do this weekend against Essendon or the following week against the Pies. It’s easy to get up after being slammed (as we did against the Crows) or to get up for “our Grand Final”. I said after the Eagles game the Crows match would mean nothing, it would be how we fronted up against the Roos & Saints that mattered. Same thing here. They can come out all guns blazing due to embarrassment from these comments but it will mean nothing unless they can start to put consistent hard efforts together over the course of the season, not make them the exception to the rule.

And when we did drive it out of the defensive half our players looked up and realised they were running into a wall of Blues across our half forward line with one of either Newton or Maric thrown in the mix to spice things up. Seriously the way we played in the first half you would have thought there was an offside rule in AFL.

I think we do have a number of elite ball users its only they don't get to show it as they are always under pressure and there is no structure so they don't have the right options to go to putting their skills further under the pump. Guys like Watts look bad at times because they take too long and either get held with the ball or dispose under pressure but this is more about what is happening (or rather what isn't happening) down the field rather than any deficiency in their skills.

I was gonna say its a no contest; Milne, Harvey and Ballantyne. But I forgot about Mitch Robinson that guy is just a [censored]. So yeah I agree Ballantyne unlucky to miss by a whisker.

Yes there were a handful of players who didn't stop (Frawley being one of them). So what? It's a team game; as a team we turned it up after quarter time. Until the club understands that they will continue to underachieve. One of our junior players (and probably future leaders) acknowledged this after the game. One of our senior players (and current leaders) refuted this and gave platitudes and a "she'll be right" attitude. This shows what has been wrong with the club and hopefully what will fix it in the coming years. I can cop losing to Hawthorn even if we also turned it up after half time then as well. They are further developed than us as a team, are more physically developed and more structurally developed. I can't cop losing to North who we should be at the very least on even footing with. We led by 5 goals in the first quarter and lost by 7. Our key defender said afterwards that we "gave up" after quarter time and Bailey let the players know all about on the ground after the game. What is so difficult to understand about a bunch of footballers getting ahead of themselves thinking they had the game in the bag (particularly on the back of the previous weeks effort) and subconsciosuly slackening off (as a team) for the rest of the game? This is what happened and proves the mental fragility of our team who get far too pleased with themselves far too easily.

Surely you can see the difference between literally giving up i.e. refusing to even exert any effort and figuratively giving up, i.e. dropping their collective heads and subconsciously refusing to push themselves to the limit of their abilities to get the result. Surely you can see that without having to dabble in semantics? And to say the margin would have been far greater than 41 points? Well over the course of 3 quarters the margin was 72 points, so it was far greater than just the 41.

What a bunch of self-defeatist crap! You don't think they're good enough to beat North Melbourne? Of course they are. If they put in the repeated efforts they did against the Crows they could beat almost anyone and even if they didn't at least they could say they gave it their best. That's the problem, fans can cop losing but they can't cop not giving it their best. And it was obvious after quarter time on Saturday the players turned it up (for whatever reason) which is what Chip referred to.

mate these are two guys with runs on the board who know what a successful culture is. A culture that doesn't accept excuses and "I can't". To think they show anything towards us but contempt and pity is laughable. They showed how scared they were of our club in '88. I was watching the Barassi doco Operation Premiership last night and he and the players talk about the culture he found at North when he arrived. The acceptance of losing. The near enough is good enough. The we can't so we might as well not try and we couldn't because of injuries anyhow. This is the same culture that has existed at our club for way too long and needs to be eradicated. If you think this is airy fairy claptrap well ... maybe that's part of the problem at our club. We think it's all good when they are deep seated issues that need addressing.

So you've seen us play for the last 3 years and no improvement in the structure of our forward line but you can't tell if Mahoney (who I think has been our forward coach for that entire time) is a good assistant or not?

Well we'll see how crap the Saints form is next week I guess. But still the Hawks not only came back from 5 goals down at 1/4 time, they did so with 20 fit men. That is a club that has character, pride, a winning culture etc etc

Because I watch the team play every week.

So Bailey's the best coach since Norm Smith it's just that the players are too lazy to carry out his infallible plans? Come on. I'll admit there are certain players who should be ashamed of some of the performances they put in but at the end of the day 1) it is the coaches job to ensure the players get the best out of themselves and 2) its easier to replace the coach than to replace 38 players.

Hawks were playing the Saints.

What rubbish. So you're happy to only win 8 games out of 22? I can understand being realistic but I can also understand developing a culture and club who goes out expecting to win each and every game and if not win at least make a fist of it and let the opposition know they have to work for a win against us. I didn't think we could realistically win the flag at the start of the year but there is no reason why we couldn't make finals in a comp where half the sides get in and considering the easy draw we have been dealt. It's not the losing that is the problem, it is the inconsistency of effort and structure of our team. Even in games we have won the issues have been apparent (no forward system or structure going inside 50, just kick and hope, no second efforts, shepherds and helping out team mates etc). Against North we had no one to kick to when running forward yet at the other end North had loose players streaming into their own 50 on multiple occasions. This is the coaches job, to ensure consistency in the players effort and performance, and to try and get a win from what he has at his disposal or at least make the opposition earn it. Someone also mentioned that it was apparent that at the 20 minute mark fo the first quarter North applied the pressure and our players stopped running and dropped their heads. Well what did Bailey do to rectify this? What did he say at 1/4, 1/2 & 3/4 time? What moves did he pull to try and stem the bleeding? What strutures did he put in place to try and grind out a win considering we had some key players out and 2 injuries on the bench? Face it Bailey has shown nothing in over 3 seasons to prove that he is tactically gifted or proactive enough to alter the outcome of a macth on game day. Similar to Daniher he goes in with his set plans and if they come off we look a million dollars but if it breaks down in any way or the opposition coach puts moves in place to counter our structure we fall to bits and nothing is done to counter-attack. As for Mahoney, West & Royal don't get me started on them. Wellman seemed to be quite good last year however he left to return to Windy Hill and we replaced him with Choco Royal, someone who not only has been in the system forever (and therefore unlikely to bring a fresh persepctive) but who was also booted from his last job and has no creedentials to say he should be a specialist defensive coach. We need a cleanout from Bailey down and bring in someone who is uncompromising, makes no excuses and has a proven track record. Malthouse is the obvious one but I'm not 100% sold on him. He has got what it takes to get his players up most weeks but really it took him 10 years to get a flag at the Pies and only then once they had given him his marching orders (albeit with 2 years notice). I think Roos would be a better option if he would come. He is still young and is a tactical thinker of the game who can squeeze the most out of players (as seen by the second hand players he was able to turn into best 22 regulars at the Swans).

You say that like its a foregone conclusion and won't take much more work or improvement and development of our players, coaches and club.