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Posts posted by Cheap Seats

    ·

    Edited by Unleash Hell

    10 hours ago, jnrmac said:

    The facts are we played our best football when we had the most injuries. Coaches and players rose to the challenge when we won 3 of the 4 games with 6 day breaks. We were innovative, unpredictable and the acid was on players to step up.

    I find it hard to believe we made a fundamental change to game style as suggested by BigMac Jnr. Not saying it didn't happen but it didn't look to me like we did and no-one here appeared to pick up on if we did (which would be unusual).

    The form of individual players dropped off which may have been related to injury or maybe related to fitness or not being able to keep up wit the game plan (both physically and mentally).

    It is beyond dispute that the coaching staff failed in the last round. For that team to run out and play as poorly as they did the first quarter is unforgivable. Particularly given our poor starts throughout the year. The fact is we lost 3 of our last 5 games - against lowly sides - and nearly lost a further one against the Lions after leading by 29 pts at the 15m mark of the last quarter.

    I don't believe this relates to game style being changed.

    Teams change set ups and styles all season.

    I'm not saying you have to believe it but to completely discredit it is silly. YOu can have your point on coaching falures etc I don't really care but strategies and set ups change in season. 

    You could say good teams don't change - that would work for your point

    Notable game style changes

    Hawthorn rounds 1 - 7 v Hawks onwards

    The men in defence strategies

    etc etc

     

     

     

     

    15 minutes ago, Deecisive said:

    Tom needs to stay forward, he is a good marking target and seems to have far greater accuracy kicking at goals than away from goals.  Leave him forward. Bring frost back to cover in defense.

     

    I said the exact same thing today at the game - Keep Tom away from the D50

    I don't see this as an issue.

    The competition is the most even it's been in a long time. There are still floggings but not as many in recent times.

    We need to establish ourselves as a consistently good team. Which we havent done. Until that hapoens i don't expect us to [censored] many sides.

     

    Small steps

    • Like 1

    32 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

     

    Those that blame the midfield are simply wrong. We are 3rd in total clearances. We are third in centre clearances. We are 5th in total stoppages.

    We are last in defensive one on ones.

    Teams score 53% of the time they go into their 50m. Last in the AFL.

    Keep blaming the mids, or the fwds or the seagulls but you are wrong.

    You can't throw a blanket of statistics over you're arguement. How about the final qtr on Saturday? I havent looked at the stats but from my eye i reckon we lost clearances and got beaten up around the ball. So your point is moot if im right, stats are general you need to be specific. You cant point at a trend for the yr and apply it to one game because it may not actually refect what happened.

    Goody and other media analysts have discussed this year how we play. If you can't discuss how the team plays and how that affects you're arguement it's a waste of time.

    Its very easy to say we were out marked and exposed on Saturday... and we were , you're 100% spot on.

    What ppl are trying to say is you can be a simpleton and focus on one area of the game or discuss the whloe situation not just the end result. 

    For example did our turnovers creat their scoring opportunities or was it stoppages it was it just ben brown?

    It's really up to u. Maybe you just have no undestanding and thats ok too 

     

    • Like 1

    ·

    Edited by Unleash Hell

    1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

    Seems few want to read the OP. It describes a weakness in our defence. I didn't understand it to say the defenders lost the game. A number of concurrent issues ;)

    Like a few have said.... you can't blame 6 players for defence now days. It's too simplistic of a discussion.

    The defenders and our game plan rely on pressure up field and all over the ground to stop defensive enteries/scores. Without pressure up feild they get exposed, which is what i think the op is pointing out.

    Im not trying to argue with u bb. Just pointing out it depends exactly what the op is saying depends on the response.

    If u try to understand the press and how goody wants us to play it, its not a back 6 issue per say. It's an 18 man team defence issue not just the back 6.

    But also i agree there is an issue with the back 6 size and experience wise. Im not saying the op is wrong 

    My overall point is you can be critical but its harsh just to focus on the back 6. Especially considering how we play... defensive stats imo are misleading when analysising them individualy as it's a Team Defense not a traditional back 6 defence.

    I dont even think goody wants to stop specific players ie brown. He wants pressure to create turnovers and scoring opportunities.

    Goody knows teams will score and i don't think it's about stopping them. Its about us creating opportunity.

    Also if we lose clearences etc our game plan starts to get exposed which goes in line with ehat the op is saying but again it's a slightly different discussion and not a back 6 issue

    • Like 2

    On 30/07/2017 at 0:14 PM, jnrmac said:

    I have said all year our defence leaks goals. Yet again we got taken to the cleaners.

    The elephant in the room are our key tall backs. Hibberd has had a great year. Jetta is outstanding, Hunt has done well but OMac and Frost while doing some good things have been toweled up by bigger bodied tall fwds like Brown, Roughhead, Walker, Daniher, Reiwoldt, Casboult, Hawkins etc

    We desperately need a Lever.

    Facts are:

    1. teams score 53% of the time they enter our fwd 50 - last in the AFL

    2. We lose 35% of defensive one on ones - last in the AFL

    You cannot win finals with a defence like that. In fact you will struggle to make finals.

    OMac is simply a liability. May become a footballer one day but gets outbodied regularly, has no urgency or intensity and frankly plays a lot of dumb football. He flies to spoil and either misses the ball or or hits it straight into a dangerous spot like the corridor. Plenty on here bang on about what a massive improvement he has made this year but I maintain if we had a decent tall back he wouldn't be playing.  

    Frost has some great attributes but makes a lot of errors spoiling. leaving his man, fumbling and taking on more than he can chew.

    We cannot take a contested mark to save ourselves. We rank 17th in contested marks. Clearly we have had to move TMac to the fwd line and so rob our defence but the evidence is pretty clear that he makes a good forward and so won't be returning any time soon.

    Until we fix our defence we aren't going anywhere. Throw the kitchen sink at Lever.

    Just for my own clarity... are you saying the back 6 are costing us games or it'sjust a weakness?

    Because i think both questions have 2 slightly different answers 

    ·

    Edited by Unleash Hell

    17 minutes ago, ManDee said:

    I said to my son on Saturday when watching the game that this is one of those games where you park Tommy Mac at the scoring end all day. Not rocket science just common sense. Football in windy conditions is not a mystery, well it maybe to our coaches.

    I reckon it is in modern day footy..... ManDee

    Off the top of my head....Jordy lewis and was it Bernie in the 3rd coming out of defence and turning it over were coach killers.... So many poor decisions.

    Not coach or game plan related errors.

    As jnrmac has rightly pointed out there is a clear deficiency in defenve but on Saturday also there were a lot of self inflicted wounds. But it is fair to say brown was the difference.

    I also think our current gsmeplan isn't to stop every entry or shutdown the opposition key forwards. Like North Melbourne or Sydney. (It might be personal related i dont know the coaches thoughts/plan. Am only guessing)

    I think our game plan is to win contested possession and create pressure up field to create turnovers. We rely on getting first hands on the footy to win games. North tought us a lesson there in that last qtr.

    Not saying this is right or wrong but ii rekon stooping 1 player seems opposite to our current plan 

    General rules for posting trades on Footy Forums

    1. Find uncontracted player

    2. Is there a perceived need for player

    3. Are they related to a current player

    4. Post

    I have no idea if the Dees are interested in Towballs brother but it fits the criteria 

    21 hours ago, america de cali said:

    That is a negative move. Not clever at all. 

    Doesn't Sam Mitchell play off the back of the square for both the hawks and now wce? Isn't Mitchell regarded as one of the best stoppage clearance players in the league?

    Seems like it might be you who is the negative one.

     

    • Like 1

    ·

    Edited by Unleash Hell

    55 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

    Seven goals in the VFL is a great effort and you can't ask much more from any player.

    I just question whether or not McCartin can translate this to AFL level. It's a bit like Trengove getting 30 possessions in the VFL, he's clearly very good at that level but the way football is played in the AFL it doesn't necessarily mean he will do well at AFL level.

    Agree 

    Stats are very mislesding. Getting 30 as an inside mid at a lower level with lots of stoppages doesn't necessarily teanslate well to etihad where there are less stoppages or the fast break game styles employed in the afl today 

     

    8 hours ago, monoccular said:

    Wagner may not be underrated - but when did he last play?  If last weekend how did he go?

    Wagner played on the weekend for Casey I believe

    but probably underdone, but I rate him (obviously). Fits in to our structure well

    8 hours ago, jnrmac said:

    Kimberley Kitching is a die hard bomber I believe. And don't forget Lindsay Tanner, current president and ex-ALP polly

    I know this is stating the obvious but, Regardless of the Pro EFC chest beating  and investigation into ASADa it doesn't change the facts Easendon don't have records what they injected players with nor the fact ASADAs investigation was found legal in the high or supreme court (sorry for my ignorance) nor the fact they were found guilty in the swiss high court. 

    Just sour grapes and im enjoying it.

     

    Personally im still waiting for james horss truth to come out that will prove essendon innocent......

    • Like 1

    100% Agree

    Not a flashy player but so clean and hard at the ball. If he can add some breakaway flare to his game he will become top 5 AFL material

    I just love watching him, he is so strong and clean in the contest, I haven't seen a Dees player like that in a long long time. I know Viney is hard but he's not as clean and as good with the ball as Clarry.

    Looking forward to watching him develop more again this year.... its going to be Huge

    24 minutes ago, DemonLad5 said:

    Brisbane came to us about Dunn yesterday, so they clearly haven't lost interest. It said that we'd spoken to a number of clubs yesterday. I wonder what about?

    Interesting. Thanks DL5

    I dont claim to be in thr know but i can't see the lions giving up pick 30 for Dunn who isn't even playing afl.

    Will be interesting to see how it plays out

    7 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

    I'm willing to accept that Hibberd makes us better but I continue to believe HB is not our area of greatest need.

    We've got Salem, Melksham, Hunt, Harmes, Wagner and Vince (who increasingly out of the centre square equation as he ages) - together with Hibberd that's 7 into a maximum of 3 HB/bench slots.  Posters say that Hibberd will free players like Salem and Hunt for other midfield roles but there is probably only "wing" roles currently occupied by Stretch and Bugg - maybe Bugg will be pushed out but that only frees one slot

    I've left out White, Lumumba and Michie who don't offer enough and will probably be gone.

    I think we should be factoring a trade of HBs into the Hibberd deal - maybe Wagner or even Harmes.  Essendon get a younger like-for-like replacement which may appeal.

    I like you're line of thinking 55.

    Is there a chance though that some of those players would find other positions.

    VandenBerg comes to mind as one who is a mid but is forced to play hff. I wonder if others like harmes and salem as an example would be forced to.move positions.

    I think Roos and Goody are massive on players who can play multiple positions.

    But in saying that it might be a reality that we have to trade some.of our young brigade  (which i dont like.at first glance) to bring in experience to be able to tke the next step

    1 hour ago, AngryAtCasey said:

    Not that i'm in favour of it, but would the club dare trade Salem and Pick 26/27 for Hibberd & Pick 19?

    Not suggesting u approve this trade AAC but any suggestion Salem is tradeable would be nothing less then a top 10 pick... especially if we want to recoup our investment in him. Salem is 21 and a top 10 pick

    I hope Essendon play hardball like Carlisle in 2015 and mess this up and he walks. 

    Dont cave on this Dees. There are surely enough issues at play here to not be bullied in to trading with Essenscum.

    He's been out of the game for 12 months, age, demanded to leave, Injection regime, the fact that Xavier Campbell said he (essenscum) wouldn't stand in any players way who wanted to leave, have to be all.mitigating factors in any trade

    Mitch Clark as an example was a straight swap.

    Love the hypocrisy in essendon saying they want like for like, they have no choice/say if a player chooses to leave. 

    Tell Essendon they're dreaming and move on

    • Like 2

    5 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

    Righto Curry.  Go ahead and get your knickers in a twist.

    I'm impressed that you know the comings and goings of each player from every club in the competition.  Must take up plenty of your time.

    Don't ruin my entertainment with your lodgic

    • Like 1