beelzebub

1 hour ago, Wells 11 said:

LOW IMPACT …. especially as it couid so easily have been high impact. 

I think this is the idea....have it rerated as low impact....and a fine.

Worth the try.

6 hours ago, DeeZone said:

Remember Rif, it’s he who laughs last……..,,!!

Yep... seasons are as much about how you start...banking games, as it is about wet sails.

Prettt fair to say most thought hed be playing now...and here we are.....

6 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

It's one of the biggest arguments on here.

I think it informs most Demonlanders' disappointment. From the starting point of "our list is the best in the competition", losses and finals failures become much harder to stomach.

But as you say, when you start thinking about it it becomes hard to justify the argument that we have the best list, or even close to it. 

1. We have, at best, an average selection of tall forwards - no matter how you rate Petty and JVR, each of Carlton, Brisbane, GWS, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Gold Coast, the Dogs, Geelong and Fremantle have better options, even North and West Coast have one tall forward more talented/proven than either of ours.
2. No matter how you rate Pickett, ANB and our other mid/small forwards, many of the aforementioned clubs have equal/better mid/small forwards. 
3. And no matter how highly you rate Gawn, Trac, Oliver and Viney, our midfield depth is not necessarily better than Carlton, Collingwood, Brisbane, GWS, the Dogs or Sydney, and in some respects (e.g. wingers, pace and skill) is worse than some/all of those sides.

There's no doubt that we have as much proven elite talent on our list as any other side (Gawn, Trac, Oliver, Viney, May, Lever, Frtisch) but a list isn't just a club's top 8-10 A-graders, it's 44 players deep.

If you take the two competing arguments - we have a great list and Goodwin's wasting it, or we have an average list and Goodwin's therefore done well to have us in the top 4 for three straight years with a flag - there are seriously substantial reasons to say the latter is the better argument.

I essentially agree... there are elements to the above that most certainly ring true.

We have a decent ...ok list with a few standouts...a few who could be anything ( but will they )

There is another 'option' to that rather decent synopsis  (^^^^^^ ) ..and that is quite simply what outcomes/results might another Coach have garnered ??? 

On 05/03/2024 at 08:25, Redleg said:

For today's question to ponder " is margarine more or less yellow than butter"?

Can't believe you ask such a question......

11 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

We went out hard and failed to capitalize with our forward 50 entries - a single goal from the first 29 entries was poor reward for our hard work while the Swans crowded our forward line. And we completely misread the conditions which led to some costly turnovers, particularly in the first half. As a consequence, by the final break, we had used our petrol tickets and they overran us in the final quarter. Very un Melbourne like and the exact opposite of what we usually expect from the team. I think much the same happened last night to the Brisbane Lions except for the fact that they managed to kick accurately for goal in the first quarter.

As to Grundy, the club completely mismanaged the situation by putting him completely off side when he was dropped, ostensibly to learn his forward craft. As a consequence, he wasn’t played in the finals and, as Thursday night showed, he would have been handy in the qualifying final and certainly, no worse than Josh Schache in the semi final. I get that the view inside the club was that he wasn’t selected because he had probably “checked out” but it should never have gotten to that stage. We lost a perfect opportunity to win a flag.

Worse still was the fact that the public humiliation and alienation of a two time All Australian resulted in our trading him far more cheaply than had we managed things better. The consequence is that we have egg on our faces for the moment and potentially more embarrassment to come.

 

Is that just a very nice way of saying we [censored] up Jack ?

And by we i mean the club and by the club i  mean ...'where the buck stops' ?? 

9 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Great analysis by George from the outer in his article " nought from zero".

I thought the Swans were very adroit in flooding our fwd line as well.

It was an absolute sea of red, white and blue.

Mason Cox would have been proud.

 

I too am.of the opinion if any have not read George's match report that they do so.

Nails it ( as he often does )

A big take away from it is that old chestnut...the coaching.

In short ol Horse tore Goody a new one.

Sydney's list isnt that marvellous...not really...   but they were choreographed brilliantly to suit the day and locale..

We did the polar opposite. 

We have a good list.... gunna go to waste if we don't get our act together.

Again....kudos George 

8 hours ago, DeeZee said:

Imagine life without May and Gawn.

We’ve got two years tops

Not even... if allowing for declining input etc.

The abyss .....it's  just down.the road imo.

13 minutes ago, Where Demons Dare said:

People People chill... round 1 hasn't even started yet! let's not get our [censored] in a tangle already...

Despite what any [censored] at AFL deems... Round 1 has indeed started.

What is.....is 

Do any care to revisit this conundrum ?

Is the window half open or half closed ?

We're but one game in....i know....  but 2 teams showed up.... only one was ready.

We've had as long as any to BE READY.... no ??

It always concerned me we had a somewhat hard first half dozen games and that would set the cast for the season. 

First offering was just this side of putrid tbh.

This is not a knee jerk reaction to a loss. Ive thought for some time we have a mismatch between players/abilities and preferred ( by Goodwin) game style.

We have a lot....a LOT of work to do if we're to be even competitive this season.

The scoreline flattered us in a fashion. Sydney isnt that world conquering...  but easily accounted for us.

Not thinking we need worry about a straight sets exit this year......

I haven't changed my thoughts for us this year.... but am happy to be shown wrong.

Tough year ahead. imho :(

Other's thoughts ?? 

1 hour ago, Kit Walker said:

If Oliver is fit enough to play footy and is available for selection, he plays AFL. Simple as that.

I yend to agree... there will always be that "first game back"

It could be argued the longer you leave it, the more "whatever" festers.

Is it a case of getting back on the horse and going from there ? 

Id like to see him suit up against the Bloods

Go Dees

On 21/02/2024 at 20:51, Dwight Schrute said:

I agree some early wins will certainly take the wind out of the sails of a media that doesn't seem to rate truth and credibility anywhere near as highly as it should. I think there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic about what we might be able to achieve this year, we will need a lot of things to fall our way, but that's not different to any other year. 

I find it incredibly interesting the talk of deep cultural issues being linked to a team with 3 consecutive top 4 finishes, a premiership in the AFL, VFL and AFLW, stability on all levels, record membership, the vast majority of required players re-signing long term and year on year profits. I'd say with a reasonable degree of confidence most other clubs would absolutely love to have this sort of a record. 

What i've stated is fact though, it's not media hyperbole. we've had an incredibly successful 3 year period by virtually all measures and realistically we've probably underachieved slightly based on what a club in our position is capable of. it's very hard to marry that up with the suggestion we are an absolute basket case with massive cultural problems. 

Afternoon.... Bub here...you know that Devilish one....  I'll assume an advocational posit as it were.

The suggestion is.... some early wins might ( and that's only might,  as that's actually literally what it suggests ) take the wind out of the sails of media pundits who I sense you're saying are overly negative, irresponsibly negative ?

So what if we don't...i.e what if we don't  come outof the blocks all guns blazing chalking up better than evens ? 

Which games do you think we'll account better than our adversaries prior to the bye..

They being in order , 

Swans...away

Dogs...home

Hawks....home

Port followed by Crows...both in Ade

Back home v Lions

I can see many might tick 3 straight away...

I'm not ticking any just yet.

I see 2 rather hard games and 4 that could be anything.

4 and 2 ...we might get somewhere this year

2 and 4... hmmmm....  we'd be camping in struggle street before we knew it.

At the risk of ridicule games are simply won by kicking a higher score than your opponent.  For mine...unless i witness something approaching an effective fwd game against Carlton... and that requires the team jelling much better than current.... requires a better approach than our prevailing religious routine...  then i harbour serious doubts regarding season 24.

But your idea is not without curry.

Not often a season is defined in round 1... ours might be.

Go Dees

Keeping in mind this thread prohibits B$   .. I'm detecting the 'aroma' of the Elephant variety these days..    more and more.

I wonder if people realise the ads they see...if they see them are tailored to them. They are a result of algorithms based upon the individuals search and pages read.

I'll leave it at that....

Gus, thankyou for the dedication and efforts and well deserved rewards. You deserved far more than this and I can't imagine how gut wrenching that decision must have been.

You leave the field with aplomb. Wish you all the very best for wherever your path takes you. 

But....bugger bugger bugger

1 hour ago, biggestred said:

problem is we start with sydney and both adelaide teams away, as well as brisbane. dogs and hawks are no pushovers either but we should be beating them if we are to make finals. honestly if we are 3-3 i think thatll be a pretty good start. 4-2 and ill be pumped. the fixture does get a touch easier from there in terms of travel etc but its a long way home....

This is why im  interested/intrigued/concerned.   We supposedly play ok in Churchville...but...  Our seasons early fixture will hammer us if we aren't up and about.....and then it's catch up footy at best.

Our resilience has waned. If we are faring poorly after 6.....it aint getting any better imho.

I can only hope the hinted at new plan A into the 50 might work with correct and fit personnel.  If not...plan b hail Mary's....we're stuffed  :(

Im genuinely interested to see where any and all of this situation sits after round 6.

Atm i have us finishing out of the 8.  I may reassess at that point.

Thats not being pessimistic...in fact quite the opposite.  If a wheel falls off it wont be alone.  Ive never seen us coached to success when the better cards of the deck aren't available.

As to some of the virtuous posturing of some here...  true comedy.

The problen with footy is it's invariably fluid.  Many teams will improve this season. It was fairly even last....  if we are same same...  well...just wave as others go past.

Footy 24... bring it...be at it.

Fwiw...   thought Lloydy was pretty fair in assessing us.

3 hours ago, Vipercrunch said:

I'm firmly in the camp refusing to draw any conclusions from that game.  Who knows what the coaches wanted to see out there?  People are bemoaning that we couldn't stop their 10 goal run, but did we even try?  Was it more important that we stopped that run on, or more important that we kept experimenting with setups, structures and ball mvement?  The second quarter centre square combos looked very unusual to me.  The outcome of preseason games, both good or bad, has and will never be a reliable indicator of what happens in the real season.

Certainly some validity to this.....  essentially it forms the "salt" with which to take it all by......  but having said that our skill level was abysmal for the most.... were they told to 'ham' it up also ??

The score isnt what concerns me .  The tenet of play does.

Am interested in what we look like against Carlton....   and I'm betting they're  not wanting play to cute.  

This is after all a proper hit out  prior to the season proper... no 4 points granted ....and they wont give away everything ( I'm sure ) but they're going to have to play without 'blinkers' 

5 hours ago, JJR said:

Nah there's no way we got some square heads in here crying over a pre season game in Feb 😐

No one's crying...  and no one particularly cares for snotty glib  sarcy rubbish as that either.

Not everyone needs to have a Mack truck 4 feet from them to understand where they are may not be the best place.

Some things can be seen a mile away...  and that allows you to do something. 

Without doubt there were many and varied 'experiments' and trials played out yesterday. 

I would suggest almost all failed. That in and of itself can be a positive if the yeah-nahh rule is applied.

That was Richmond.... a team without ( on paper) the same prospects as us. They had at least half a dozen of their top dozen players missing..  they're still getting used to a new coach,  new ways.... and they made us look very ordinary..

On a day when much is tried I struggled to see or identify anything...ANYTHING...that made me think...  yeah...that's working....needs work, but has promise.

It was a 2023 dogs breakfast , chucked up and dished out. 

I firmly hope the game against Carlton is better, and more representative of our true intents this year.

Go Dees

9 hours ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Kozzie was playing Hollywood football. Twisting, turning, ducking and weaving, and then completely butchering his kicks. He actually became a liability and was extremely selfish. He needs to execute the basics 

Probably the best description of his footy I've read. Nails it. All froth and bubble.

If he were a beer he'd need a straw and cherry on top.

Just as you assert he needs to focus on the football first, flamboyance second. 

He's a rare talent. He's squandering it presently. It's actually quite annoying 

1 hour ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Goodwin has been using a very loose rolling zone roughly a kick (or somewhat less) behind the footy for the last 2 seasons, particularly in the 1st quarter of matches and also quite often (but not always) at the start of 2nd halfs.

By loose i mean in the first quarter the zone is often (but not always) starting too deep for my liking.  Often giving up the first 40/50 meters or so in our F50.  And also players guarding grass that are a tad too far away to impact a slightly wayward or mis-directed kick/handball.

Works ok against average to lessor oppositions that have more of a tendency to turn the ball over.

However, the better oppos have had a field day out of the middle and in transition off HB or FB (kick ins).   They just don't fluff their disposal as often either via better skill levels and/or a combo of a lack of intense pressure from us in a full court sense.

They also take huge advantage of the first 40 meters or so of almost zero pressure (where we effectively hand them this via the loose zone WHEN Goodwin & Co. decide to utilise it) to quickly work their way to their preferred 'launching' spots.

Then hammering home their kicking skills to hit up their targets, which often have the jump on our defenders due to the speed of transition.  The speed on the oppo's transition often resulting in more 1 v 1s where our defenders are caught out and any spares unable to make up the ground to provide an assist.

The 'lay-off' rolling zone worked a treat in 2021 when we had players capable of closing the grass quickly while giving the appearance they were almost out of the contest sitting off their man somewhat.

This close down speed/capability (possibly through a much tighter 'lay-off' zone) resulted in us intercepting, spoiling and causing turnovers more often, then blitzing from decent places into our own 50 for the resulting punishing turnover score/goal and/or repeat entries when implementing the press.

For whatever reason, our ability to bring this level hasn't really been apparent (consistently) since the 2nd half of 2022.

I can only hope Goodwin wont persist with it in it's same method/modus in 2024, at least not against the best rated clubs anyway.  Average to lessor clubs shouldn't matter too much either way.

We really won't know whether he is or isn't until we're into about Rnd 4 to 6.

Fingers crossed he's adjusted this tactic in a significant way when the real stuff starts in a few weeks.

Against the better clubs we need fairly heavy pressure and a much tighter zone starting from the first kick in (from a behind) all the way up the field if we're to prevent some of the 'run on' blow outs we witnessed over the last 18 months. 

This will hopefully result in the better oppos turnIng the ball over more often in more dangerous places to provide us with better looks and potentially higher scoring opportunities.  Which should = more wins!

The forward stocks continue to be a real worry though given the number of injuries and potential decent players who are either out and/or struggling to stay on the park.

Excellent analysis. 

Doesn't bode well imho.

Ol' Simon does like persisting with things long past the point many would have changed course.

Roll on 24... 

First half dozen rounds will mark our card yay or nay

2 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I’d be tempted to go small. Lever takes a man. Gus plays as the interceptor, a role he excels at. McVee and Rivers take on some height.

But we are hardly stacked for flankers. If Salo is moved to the midfield to finally attempt to fix the unbalance in the midfield we are looking at another medium tall in Hore playing out of position, Howes - who cant defend at all but has interesting flanker skills, or possibly mix it up with Woewodin?

I’d even think of trying Sparrow on a back flank if he continues to be an almost player as a mid.

Interesting isnt it. 

If they're looking to rejiggle some of last years into new roles/positions have they placed too much reliance on what others might be able to do...as opposed what some can ?

Might be some auditioning this week perhaps 🤔

🤔 whos our 3rd up defender.... might be an opening.....just sayin' 

It seemed obvious to this befuddled old curmudgeon that the team today was incapable of properly implementing any ( or much ) of any new game ( derived from...'learnings') . The skills were lacking for many and the team lineup was short of any duscernable cohesion.

That might well change with a better selection.  But by how much ? 

The problem with days like today is if you are indeed trying new tricks...and undermanned in that endeavour there's every chance you will look even worse for the effort because strangely enough the other team will be hell bent on stopping you..

Richmond seemed to ooze more poise .

We really had very little. They were a rough diamond perhaps to our bit of ballast.

Carlton will tell us more.

Time for Clarry to come home

Is the Blues game...a proper game ?.... or another hybrid hash like today ?

Cheers