LIFT

How far back is Big Max ?

and where is Wattsy ? 

#Bluey16

Was very happy with what I saw from Cale at stages this year, but consistency is probably the biggest hurdle for him. Along with putting on a bit of mass, it's really hard to forget that epic fail Josh Hunt tackle attempt.

Yeah I am a big Morton Fan. I much prefer him as an attacking winger than a "4th Tall Defender". I have visions of him running forward and kicking goals for us in 2008 and 2009 (maybe that was because there was so few goals in those years). I think he is a match up problem for other teams as he could take his smaller midfield opponent forward and out mark them and kick goals. I doubt he could be as good as Goodes or Goddard but fingers crossed. He does not kick the ball as well as Goddard and I agree with 1858s post earlier he does not have the power, explosiveness or quick burst to win clearances like Adam Goodes does but possibly this can be developed. I am sure he kicked 3 goals against the Cats too. I also think settling him down on a wing would be good for him. Anyone see any of his best footy as a Junior in WA and could comment on why he was taken as a number 4 draft pick in that year? I think he holds up as one of the better players in that year's draft. More impact than Cotchin, Masten and Palmer however due to injuries to those players possibly too. Thoughts?

Any idea what has happened to Gysberts?

He was listed as injured with a 2 week back injury a few weeks back now?

Hopefully this is not a Jack Grimes type injury back when he first started?????????????

I need to know for super coach and for a bet I have going.

I think with him Scully, McKenzie and Trengove we have a nice young midfield nucleus coming through.

We are still missing Warnock, Gysberts, Grimes and James McDonald from am arguable best 22 for 2010 remaining.

Jaded I also have my misgivings about Dunn but to say he will never be good enough to be a premiership player is not a great argument. Our own Stevie Armstrong is not good enough to be a premiership player but guess what, he is one ! Clay Sampson - who'd a thunk it ! Footy history is littered with 'em.

Sometimes it's about playing a role & being in the right place at the right time. Mario Bortolotto from Carlton can write a thesis on the subject.

Go your hardest on Dunn but give us something a bit more tangible.

Sure Dunn has his issues but I would have him every day ahead of Miller. He wants the ball in his hands, is a much better kick and has some goal sense.

Worst for me were Bate and Cheyney today, would love to drop both of them but Bate can play.

What is the go with the inside 50s we have copied Geelong's style of play but they get it in there 60 times a game and we do it 30????????

In Sylvia, Jurrah and Bail.

Out Grimes inj., Cheyney, N. Jones (not an A Grade mid and never will be. Did he tag Dal Santo? I thought Dal was one of the best for them) Nate Jones while he tries his guts out he is a little like Natanui does 2 - 3 things that you love but not a lot else)

Joel MacDonald will be needed to help cover Grimes abscence but gosh can he make some howler errors............would have liked to pick up a kid with PSD 1 to be honest in hindsight.

Morton should be played as an attacking winger that can float forward and use his height and endurance. Not as a back pocket.

B: Bartram Frawley McDonald

Bruce Rivers Garland

Davey Trengove Sylvia

Watts Bate Bennell

Dunn Jurrah Green

Jamar Moloney McKenzie

Spencer Scully Bail Jetta

GET IT INSIDE 50 QUICK GUYS!!!!!!

I HATE THE BOMBERS.

Portman by a freaking mile!!!!!!

Brother go and get yourself out the movie Sin City - Jessica Alba is smoking in this bartop dancing scene amazing.

Love these draft hind sight debates. Both great players just happy Chippa did not turn out to be a Luke Molan. Riewoldt's kicking is a little Matty Richardson like.

I reckon you could almost argue Dustin Martin could have gone 1 or 2 also. Don't get me wrong love the look of Scully and Trengove but Dustin was awesome last night.

From what I saw of Sylvia in the ruck he did better than what we'll get from Newton.

Newton is expendable in the ruck and it is ok to place him at risk of injury there. Sylvia is not. Miller is also expendable but I want to give Newton sufficient opportunity to be delisted at the end of the year. Bigger leap on Newton too which should help with rucking too.

MELBOURNE

Matthew Bate (ankle) - test

Sam Blease (leg) - 2 weeks

Colin Garland (knee) - test

Max Gawn (knee) - 6 weeks

Liam Jurrah (shoulder) - 4-5 weeks

John Meesen (ankle) - indefinite

Ricky Petterd (shoulder) - season

Jake Spencer (knee) - 4 weeks

Luke Tapscott (hip) - 4-5 weeks

CARLTON

Dennis Armfield (quad) - test

Paul Bower (quad) - test

Ryan Houlihan (hamstring) - test

Chris Johnson (wrist) - 1 week

Kane Lucas (hamstring) - 1 week

Simon White (knee) - 2-3 weeks

Chris Yarran (thigh) - 2 weeks

Yarran willnot play.

Waite and Houlihan should come in. Maybe Bower and Armfield too.

I thought Rivers was poor for us v the Cats and has been shown up a few times one out this year. However Blues may have Henderson, Waite and O'Hailpin to match up on so we will probably need 3 key backs if Garland does not come up. Joel MacDonald worries me too, he does some good things but his mistakes are very costly and he is not exactly a first choice option for us at the moment which is a shame given we used PSD Pick 1 on him. In my opinion Bruce, Rivers, Joel MacDonald and Cheyney are all probably competing for one maybe 2 spots.

Would love to bring Newton in and use him as the second Ruck and up forward as Jamar is starting to show fatigue.

I do not think Miller should be in the side. His 5 goals in Darwin were great but a little opportunistic and his true form is below that. However the inside 50s last week were 57 Geelong 37 Melbourne so none of the forwards got much of a chance.

Out: Rivers, Joel MacDonald, Miller, Garland (Rest him if not 100%), Woenamarri (STIFF but cannot have all 3 of Bennell, Jetta)

In: Scully, Bate, Trengove, Newton, Cheyney

Team:

Bartram Warnock Cheyney

Bruce Frawley Grimes

Davey Moloney Scully

Sylvia Bate Bennell

Jetta Watts Green

Jamar Junior MacDonald Trengove

Gysberts Jones Morton Newton

Must win the midfield and tag Gibbs, Jacobs and Kruezer are going ok and Jamar needs a hand. Bartram to Eddie Betts. Cheyney or Bruce to Garlett.

Anyone Know????????????????????????????????????????????

I was staggered by the game of Miller. Does this bloke have incriminating pictures of senior people at the club or do the people just love looking at his wife at club functions. Why Robbo, our leading goal kicker, was not retained over this guy blows me away. Please Gold Coast, take him off our hands.

Bate was probably under done but he was soundly beaten by a novice in Suckling for Hawthorn. Please Lift.

In fairness to Strauss on debut, he is very inexperienced as given his injury he had limited time playing against men at Casey last year. However it was interesting to see the form of Luke Shuey (pick 18 between Blease and Strauss) do so well in Brisbane for the Eagles last night.

Which is the real worry. Is our club just incapable of developing our players to get better and reach their potential. Maybe Frawley, Warnock and Grimes have improved under Dean Bailey. I have real concerns over his ability to coach and win games.

Hawthorn clearly run a good program. Look at what they did with Carl Peterson. Nowhere at Richmond gets into the Hawthorn System and he plays brilliantly on debut.

Hawthorn had senior guns in Croad and Crawford in their premiership team, great 2001 draft with Hodge, Mitchell, Ladson and Brown great 2004 drafts with Buddy, Roughy and Lewis and then filled in the side as required 2004- 2007.

God I hope our recent drafts can bare the same fruit.

Scully, McKenzie and Trengove looked great.

Hopefully Jamar can stay on the park this week.

As the season develops we can hopefully get Sylvia, Watts, Garland, Woenamarri, Jurrah and Morton back into the side.

Make no mistake Hawthorn are a seriously good confident team hungry for success.

With a bit of luck Round 1 is bedrock for our 2010 season and it is only up from here.

In 2010, your draft number in 2004 is as relevant as yourzodia sign to indicate AFL talent.

Meesen was pick 8 in the 2004 draft by the Crows was traded in 2007 to MFC for pick 38. At the end of 2009 Meeson was put on the rookie list by a bottom dwelling Club with a shortage of good rucks. Hmmmm....what does that tell you?

Newton was pick 43 in the 2004 draft by MFC with questions about attitude and maturity. After making an impact in 2007, Newton has failed to make an impact since at MFC despite the bottom dwelling Club which is screaming out for forwards even despite getting a dubious 2 year contract extension. He was put on the rookie list in at the end of 2009. Hmmmm....what does that tell you?

Unless there is a complete change of form and/or fitness, neither play will be playing AFL in 2010.

Dunn is in his sixth season and since his first season there has been a question about his stomach for the contest. And being built like Tarzan does not hide that you play like someone else. Has cute skills but has been put on tagging roles to take him to the contest more because he does not do enough offensively. Its got nothing to do with the position he is played. The forward line is not a place for shrinking voilets. Not best 22 for mine. And injuries give him a chance to actually show that he has got it. Put on the first 5 years he has been a fail for a first round pick. If he is still at Casey at year end then he should go.

Mathew Bate is very underrated and has done a wonderful job in a difficult role up forward. I hope he blossoms further.

Aside from you conspiracy theories, neither Newton or Dunn has shown they are good enough. The reports on here suggest with Newts..its more of the same. Bate is returning from injury and once match fit will be best 22.

Nasher covered the side for Rd 1.

I'lll give you a hint....Dunn and Newton are not even on the bench. And I'd play Max GAWN on one leg ahead of Meesen.

Nah Nasher's side has Stefan Martin at Full Forward, I like him as a defender only. He does not want the ball. Classic athlete/body playing football. Cant kick for goal either. Jordie McKenzie I think will play a bit this year but I am not sure he is a walk up start, not an attractive or terribly effective footballer. Has his pre season form been epic or something in the NAB Challenge?

It is a bit sad that, in your opinion we have 3 blokes who should not get a game in 2010 on our list without a meaningful ball been kicked so far this year. I think they need to be thrown in the deep end a bit and told SINK or SWIM.

Bate is a good player isn't he, quite like him.

Carna Dees lets win some this year......

Sought after?? Really??? More so than Deledio, Buddy, Roughy, Lewis, Williams etc. Beyond the first seven picks, the 2004 draft has been an ordinary year. None of the players you mention are sought after at all.

After six years, Meesen and Newton are not up to it and its amazing posters still see a Coleman medallist in the making based on the 2007 MOTY. For Dunn, the issue is not where he plays.....its how he plays.

Bate is still part of our future but our rise up the ladder wont be on the vintage of 2004.

Mate,

The point I was making was Bate, Dunn and Meesen are all top 15 draft picks in 2004. Obviously Deledio, Buddy were picked ahead of this group and are way better players.

If you look at some of the reports from the Casey game Newton and Bate went quite well all be it in a VFL praccy match.

My point is more along the lines of, these guys Newton (form/lack of opportunity/goal kicking issues) and Dunn (played out of position) really need a go in the forward line. If they do not cut it, given ample opportunity, they have to be seriously looked at for a trade or delisting.

As they are really clogging our list at their current standing in our side.

Do you agree Rhino?

What would be your ideal forward line for Round 1 and in a perfect world in 2010 with no injuries?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/36819/default.aspx

We have 4 of the most sought after players of the 2004 draft who have now done the best part of 5-6 pre seasons and are 23 -24 and should be entering their prime. Meesen, Bate, Dunn and Newton

While I think our woes are predominantly due to game plan and midfield issues causing the ball to not go into our forward line (inside 50) enough generally I think we really need to experiment with our forward line until Jurrah, Watts and Woenamarri are ready/ return from injury.

I think Newton can play. He seems to get the ball when he plays and his tackling and effort has improved despite his body language and general listlesness issues. His real problem is kicking for goal.

Dunn was drafted as a Centre Half Forward with superb endurance and around 2005 / 2006, while admittedly playing in a supporting role to Neitz and co in a much better forward line with better supply, appeared to have goal sense and finishing ability. With his endurance he should be able to run many defenders of their legs presenting to our half back and midfield.

Bate, of the 4, is probably the furthest away from being delisted, his long kicking is very valuable, just would love to see more of it along with some deep pack marks.

I would tell the Bate, Dunn and Newton that they have responsibilty of carrying the forward line and will be given a 5 game run to prove their worth. They are good mates and I think they will relish the challenge.

What have we got to lose?

Otherwise, without good 2010, going into season 7 for these guys there future has to be in some question.

Miller can help in the short term with his workrate.

Maric was recruited as a deadly finishing forward so he should go here too

and Petterd has bobbed up as a goal kicker in the last year and a half.

Bruce and Green should definately rest in the forward line too to provide leadership and class in this area of the ground.

Jamar too should rest here too given his goal kicking display against Carlton too.

Garlands speed on a lead could also be experimented with here forward

S. Martin does just not appear to have the aptitude to play the forward role, his best football has been played down back and he should return there. With Warnock, Frawley and Rivers we are probably ok for key backs that is why a trade should be sought for one of these 4 players to bolster a weak area e.g. Ruck or Key Forward.

My round 1 team v the Hawks, (several injury and selection assumptions here) would be as follows:

Bennell Warnock Frawley

Joel MacDonald Rivers Cameron Bruce

Trengove Moloney Davey

Bate Miller Maric

Petterd Newton Green

Jamar Grimes James MacDonald

Jones J. Spencer(relief ruck while Jamar rest forward or bench) Scully Dunn (Go Forward/ relief midfielder)

Emg. Martin Gysberts Strauss

Out of our best 22

I think are Morton, Jurrah, Watts (eventually), Sylvia

We should have an edge in the ruck and without S. Taylor, Franklin, Bateman, Burgoyne, C. Young, Brad Sewell, Cyril Rioli (OP) and co we have to be a slight chance

Grimes did not play did he? He is probably our best player. Kerr and Cox are established AFL stars on their way back from injury. But yeah seriously not beating West Coast at Casey is not great form.

Did I hear Sylvia went off early?

What were the problems from those that were there?

Still not enough inside 50s?

Obviously horrendous finishing in front of goal early too.

34 scoring shots to 26 is not a huge blow out but it does not sound like our defence was terribly effective either.

Obviously they need to give up on S. Martin as a forward and send him back to full back on the gorillas where he has played his best footy and then give Newton 5 games to save his career at Full Forward.

of our best possible 22 it would be nice to consider Bruce, Bate, Watts, Jamar and on their 2008 form Woenamarri and Garland for this game.

The forward line relies heavily on the Jurrahcane..........probably Green will camp there for a fair bit too.

I think in 2009 the forward line was quite efficient given the number of inside 50s the team averaged per game, now that the midfield appears to have been bolstered (see Scully, Trengove Grimes) maybe the forward line can score more from more opportunity.

Would love to see a regular forward line of:

Sylvia Bate Watts

Green Jurrah Woenamarri

Maybe get Morton resting there too.............

What interests me is how Panos gained the status of All Australian in the national under 18 carnival and yet five months later he's not considered in the best 60 youngsters drafted?

Good Point. And if Panos is an accurate kick for Goal he has something on Newton who we apparently have to 'Re - rookie".

I would also like M. Thorpe ahead of Meesen if that was possible and his attitude and fitness were deemed appropriate.

Hopefully the Gold Coast can rookie Meesen and Newton for us.

Joel McDonald had an excellent 2008 and may enable Davey, Grimes or Bruce to play more attacking roles if he plays down back.

B: J MCDONALD WARNOCK FRAWLEY

HB: GRIMES RIVERS JOEL MCDONALD

C:MORTON MOLONEY BRUCE

HF: WATTS BATE SYLVIA

F: WOENAMARRI JURRAH GREEN

FOLL: JAMAR DAVEY JONES

INTER: SCULLY TRENGOVE GARLAND MARTIN

EMG: PETTERD TAPSCOTT BENNELL

By delisting these two players and pledging to rookie them does this mean we have to take them with our first two picks in the rookie draft if they are not taken in the PSD?

What if some club with mid to late picks wanted them in the Rookie Draft and we could use our higher picks on Mitch Thorpe, Dylan Grimes and Panos?

I really would not mind getting some more young untried talent onto our list than these guys who have been given every opportunity in the last 2 years.

Anyone have any ideas how this will work if say Hawthorn tells Meesen they plan to Rookie him?????

That's a weak excuse. In a period of restricted trade/drafting, Melbourne have had access to 5 years of drafts with Priority Picks, which is an AFL record. No other club has had a "free" hit like this in the draft period.

ARE YOU REFERING TO 1997 (JEFF WHITE, TRAVIS JOHNSTONE), (COLIN SYLVIA, BROCK MCLEAN) 2003, (WATTS, BLEASE) 2008, (SCULLY, TRENGOVE) 2009 Where is the 5th year of PPs?

Also going back to 1997 is a bit rich.

St. Kilda in a similar period had (RIEWOLDT, KOSCHITZKE 2000), (BALL,CLARK 2001 dal santo at 13), GODDARD 2002 due to Carlton's salary cap breach very lucky,

Facilities don't really have an impact. In the 90's, North, a club with less resources than Melbourne facility wise managed to win 2 flags training out of a granny house gym.

Don't really need facilities when you have Wayne Carey

Collingwood only left Victoria Park in 2005. I suggest that the facilities at the Junction Oval (an oval I've played a number of VAFA games on) were superior to Victoria Park. Prior to 1987, every club played each other twice, so there goes your facilities & draw theory.

History didn't start 51 years ago, over a much shorter journey, we've been quite a more successful club than yours with less resources.

Who do you go for?

So in a weak draft you could expect him to go alot earlier. I really just like the way he uses the ball. I think he is a big chance to be around at 11

Scully (Melb)

Trengove (Melb)

Martin (Rich)

Morabito (Freo)

Cunnington (Nth)

Rohan (Syd)

Jetta (WC)

Butcher (Port)

Tapscott (Port)

Lucas (Ess)

Talia (Melb)

??? (Carl) All I know if Talia makes it here he will be gone. They need big backs.

Obvious one missing is Koby Stevens. The only ones I see sliding are Tapscott, Butcher & Lucas but then again i can't see anyone outside jumping over the top of them.

Talia

I rate him but I don't think he is what we need which is a classy ruckman who wants the ball in his hands and a bullocking key power forward are what we need.

I.e. Panos/ Mitch Thorpe and Vardy

Talia looks very similar to Morton, Watts, Frawely, Garland etc

Our backline is stocked Martin, Frawley, Rivers, Warnock and Garland can all play keyback and I will be very much looking forward to what they can do with a better than breakeven midfield!

Need a forward or Ruck

All time favourite would be Hassa Mann

Happy Birthday #29

How ironic its today

1991 - 1993 A Jakovich

1994 The Ox, G Lyon

1998 S Tingay

2000 J Farmer

2002-2006 A Yze, T Johnstone

2009 Sylvia then Jurrah and Grimes

Green is a better option at FF, hard match up, can mark , CAN KICK, plenty of courage, leads by example, class act, refer to my previous post

Miller, I would love to see him go, preferably this year but at worst next year.

There is just not room in our forward line for him.

Bate is a penetrating kick Miller is not, he presents pretty well across half forward as well.

Sylvia is just as imposing from a hardness perspective as Miller and a thumping kick.

We obviously want to develop the talents of Watts and Jurrah.

Stef Martin or Mark Jamar will rest down forward so there is the risk we could become top heavy.

His Kicking will never come good. Once you get to about 15 years of age your kicking action is pretty set.

He is not a good decision maker as a result of his kicking problems and this leads to him being indecisive.

He has games where he does very little.

Essentially he is an athlete playing football with a big endurance tank and a pretty good attitude but we are kidding ourselves if he is worth having around still.

Buckley I think is worth another year (quick and a long kick) to see if he can get his body right but he is pretty expendable too.

Your point? I think it's more a reflection of the fact I thought Frawley was really good early on, and Rivers was solid. And given that they had COMPLETE midfield dominance and the lack of taggers, I think the fact the defence did well to rebound as they did, and keep trying to attack.

Well, yeeeah... But this is hardly something to hang our hats on is it? A guy that won't be at the club next year and a guy who will probably never again play as much as he did in the forward line, and CERTAINLY will never play there with as much space as he had. It's newsworthy for the way the game was played. How many other games have we played this year that were all out attack like that? It's newsworthy for it's freainess, not because Jamar kicked 5 against a working defence.

True. I was more referring to their ladder position. If I was a CFC supporter I'd be desperately trying to grasp a double chance. I suppose realistically though, a win in an elimination final would be a pretty good result, and a solid win against us made them certainties to be 5trh or 6th.

The rotations, I thought, were due to injuries everywhere. But you make a good point. This was reminiscent of the Tiges game in many ways. Certainly after half time. I still take a lot of positives from the Freo game, where Bailey was allowed to actively try to win. That says more about where we are at than a freak 5 goal performance to Jamar and Robbo, and a shootout against the Blues where we never really turned up.

Credit to Jamar though, I really should say. I really quite seriously would have given him about a 1 percent chance of ever kicking 5 in his career. I was wrong about that much at least.

It would be interesting to see what the Russian would have produced this year if injuries had not stopped him from playing so much this year. When he has played he has been good.

It would be great from a flexibility point of view if Mark Jamar and Stef Martin could rotate between Ruck, Forward Pocket and the bench and then play another midfielder. I think our first choice forward line 2010 would be:

Bate Watts Sylvia

Woenamarri Jurrah ??????

Davey if not needed upfield or Maric if in form could play there or if we wanted to go tall we could play Martin or Jamar there.

Col has earnt his place on the list this year, so must be kept to help our new younger players & play good footy for us.

More Torps Colin!!

He is one of the first picked these days. Provided he does not do dumb undisciplined stuff on and off the field.

Hopefully in 2010 he can go through the middle more as he gives our midfield something that Jones and McLean don't have .........speed.

And then rest forward like a Brad Johnson.

Onya Col.

keep in mind...midfileders can kick goals...ff cant play midfield.. its about priorities..literally. we lack a solid "A" clas midfiled that can grab a game by the scruff of its neck and win. We can improvise a forward line around what (watt ) is coming and what had already arrived. we can press gang in the mean time.. we cant sythesise a midfield ..it has to be real.

1)Scully

2) next best midfielder

http://www.contestedfooty.com/search/label/Draft

I agree.

With Scully and Trengove. We add two under 18 captains. It is like adding Ablett and Bartel like the Cats did in 2001.

My only issue is the Scott Thompson type go home factor of Trengove. Need to get Rivers etc to get around him. Hopefully the club can move his family over and any missus he may have.

Imagine the Jack attack with Watts, Grimes and Trengove!

This is my MFC 2012 premiership team:

Frawley Warnock Garland

Grimes Rivers Strauss

Blease Scully Petterd

Sylvia Watts Bate

Woenamarri Jurrah Maric

Jamar Morton Trengove

Inter (from) Davey McLean S. Martin Moloney Jones Dunn

We had 38 Inside 50s and we are still stuck on the forward line?

I thought we had this argument about 2 months ago - we need a decent midfield.

Our forward line is raw but promising, our midfield is in dire need of some class and run.

Well said our midfield is a long way from St.k, geel, doggies and carlton.