nextskipclaz

i'm a perceptive supporter not a 'die hard' because why would i die hard when they persisted with Goodwin when it was clear that he was not allowing the best of our players. we recruited Nate Jones of all people to coach, with no coaching credentials, purely on sentiment, and we arguably did the same with Brad Green. When we had Roffey who was a great President because she offered something different. Green and Jones are Fanboys and they are not football intellects wide-armed person people (as Roffey was). I don't wish to pile [censored] on Melbourne, but I'm trying to have a perceptive and critical discussion about it. Unfortunately for you I have developed a soft spot for Collingwood because even though many of they're supporters are horrible, the club has a spirit that wouldn't allow pure sentiment to cloud their vision for their prosperity and the welfare of the players. That being said, my line of reasoning is much more caring to our players than supporters who just say "great we have Nate Jones coaching and Goodwin still there, fantastic!" without seeing how catastrophic this has been for the welfare and prosperity of kids like Petracca and the younger echelon of Rivers etc. who are trying to live full and unhindered footballing careers You Go Away, youve probably got no guts to stand up for what this club needs.

i have family who go for collingwood. melbourne supporters, which i am one, are constantly on the whinge wagon. Brayshaw retired from 'consecutive' hits to the head, Maynard being the last of them. It was a reckless act, not intentional, he should have been suspended at least for 1 or 2 matches. But apart from that, you've got to move on. Nathan Murphy also retired from concussion and he's still getting around the team at Collingwood with a role at the club.

I hope we get smashed and say bye to Goodwin and jones. If anyone remembers the kind of commentary Nate jones made on channel 7, that should have been enough evidence for him not to get the job. Very basic, very gross and un-nuanced. Club absolute shambles. Game gone so far past Goodwin. for the sake of the future of this club, please for the love of god lose by 10 goals tonight. Otherwise it’s just delayed pain as Goodwin and jones take us to nowhere land for another 3 years I’ve been trying out the sound of ‘go pies’ just out of sheer self-respect

Agree, never liked the addition of Jones, too familial, not dispassionate enough. Horrible decisions the club has made with he and Green. Roffey, a female touch who was a receptacle for team values snubbed. Green focusses on his 'stars' - team doomed

every human in any role has a belief that they can achieve success, otherwise they wouldn't be there. he would not suddenly abandon his self-determination after a bad streak- because what we understand as a catastrophic streak is only relative to him. It's not up to him to stand down, but certainly he could ask what the club thinks is best and then talk it through

Green is a club fanboy, he is as guilty as any of feeding the players egos. We need people who are discompassionate and stand for TEAM values. Kate Roffey was way better in that regard. It's hard to imagine how an organisation could make a swap like that when 1. they don't trade their star players and go all in on a successful 2025, and 2. at the same time bring in an interim CEO which spells transitional phase, who happens also to be a rather choleric fanboy

I agree with the mass of what you said, but 1. the instability right now and for the last several years has been reinforced by Goodwin. 2. our premiership was coming - with the list we had it was almost inevitable, once we started with those breakthrough wins against Hawthorn in 2016 etc. Goodwin might have had very little to do with it when you consider the stature of Gawn Petracca and Oliver and May and Lever. 3. A new coach doesnt have to take long to succeed (see Mcrae and Chris Scott)- 24 months, sometimes less. 4. Much as we love Goody and want it to work, we need to use our reason over our emotions on this one. Goody just selected Billings again - the guy can't play football.

yeh and that's him these days, comfortable with 'looking' good and 'sounding' good, not really 'being' good

words sound good don't they

we are. and not only was he repetitive and insubstantial , cliche and blindly confident, but he was also apparently unobservant of the questions asked to him. imagine how the players feel in trying to parse his meaning (about anything for that matter), and he's meant to hold the collective vision. when one talks with such an expressive limitation and willful ignorance, good luck finding an intricate and dynamic game plan let alone execution to take on the best. if he's 'open' and 'accepting' 'and loving' that's only because he is like honey in a sieve. p.s. i called for his deposement two years ago when he signd on for two more years and in the video the players were visaully and audibly underwhelmed. They just don't want to hurt his feelings at this point. And that's not a good enough reason for members

Speed off half back is important, and I'm content with Windsor being able to play that role for now My point isn't really about 'filling the wing spot' - i think there are a number of options there besides Billings. It's more that I think Billings creates a deficit in energetic connection amongst the group: To me, 'team balance' is essential - we had that in 2021 - and it's not just about balance in skill and ability etc, it's about balance of energies/personalities - much like magnetism in physics or law of attraction etc. To be quite honest, that's the level I'm speaking from. It's about synergy - but particularly due to personality and energy and vibe. Without being woo-woo about it, we all know how a team gets a run on, gets momentum etc. We saw it with Dees 2021, we saw it arguably with Hawthorn last year (arguably until the very moment that Ginnivan disrupted their vibe leading into their Semi-final with his cocky instagram post). I'm not saying 'vibe' and 'synergy' is EVERYTHING. But! I'm quite confident that it is A LOT of it. Without harping on that thread, and with no offence to Billings, the reason I'm so 'desperate' about selections like Billings is that the way I view the game is predominantly through this 'synergy' aspect, and to me that theory extends to the weakness in the chain that can occur with 1 or 2 players who have a kind of undefined personal and footballing energy. To me Billings IS that kind of player, but more importantly he is that kind of 'influence. Now, on a good day for Trac Clarry and Gawn etc, this issue would seem insignificant because we would probably get the 4 points based off of their effort. But it's the games (like finals) that really test the team, and/or if our stars are a bit off their game - that is when you just 'desperately' need those lower tier players to hold up in integrity AND even shine through with their effort that they get some secondary plaudits from the fans (but, importanty, not because they just 'kicked uncontested goals', but because they did the work that clarry or trac didnt do becasue they were off - you know, they plugged the holes). Billings is not a hole plugger - he bottoms out, peters out in his energetic influence on the group, and his physicality, and really his charisma, his personality, his raison d'etre or whatever you want to call it. Yes to me, Charlie Spargo has a more deeply ingrained and humble relationship to footy than Kade Chandler. Chandler played years in the VFL , and in the same way I was speaking before , I don't think his the best for team balance - I think he talks too much (but more out of a feeling of insecurity within himself) and its largely distracting to the group. Admittedly Ive been surprised by his growth and he might come solid, but to me he is still somewhat a liability to the premiership integrity because of his kind of flippant nature (again, team balance, personality etc) RE Fritsch, I was talking about players with football deep in their DNA, who a filthy on themselves for having a [censored] one and being determined to turn it around- that kind of [censored]. ya know? OK tyvm and bye

But that's just the point, you WOULD have been, and I WOULDNT have, because I know kicking uncontested goals is not what it's about. My question to you is, did you see his defensive efforts against Freo - a couple of goals were kicked by them from a play in which Billings made himself obsolete where he could have impacted the contest. I understand this kind of thinking is not what youre used to and you are looking for glamour, but I'm getting to the root, and that is a gift to you becasue we all want the ultimate success, not just to see some goals kicked at the weekend of footy... or am I wrong to assume that's what you want from your team

I'm afraid this IS a matter of desperation and here's why: 1. remember what makes a good team these days: insistent pressure, putting 1 percenters first, sacrifical play, and then the 'space' opens up on the offence as a by-product of doing that well. Does anyone watch Billings in those aspects or are folks on this thread just concerned with who gets a kick?? Football is about what fills the negative spaces if you know what I mean. there is no great value in being a hard runner (which by the way I really don't see Jack Billings as a great example of) if you don't also have speed for the clinches (which billings does not - he is actually slow guys), ...and yes you do need speed (windsor) on the wing too, windsor held his own completely last year, with no significant endurance issues. 2. ANYONE can kick a goal, or get on the end of one, or find space... ANYONE. And i would rather see trac kick a goal when he is in range rather than pass it off to Billings just because the little guy 'found some space'. Trac kicking goals is infinitely better of the trajectory of this teams success (not least because he is a barometer of the teams energetics - Billings has zero influence on galvanising team energy. 3. Billings, along with Taj and perhaps others exhibit a different intent as AFL footballers - it is not something they are dying to do, it is not their raison d'etre like an Angus Brayshaw, a Bailey Fritsch or even a Charlie Spargo. And my desperation is founded on this contention: the more players in a team you have who don't really live and breathe footy (and I would go as far as to say if you have even 1 or 2 players in that state of mind - sort of content just to 'get a run'), the closer you are to failure as a group - no matter how good your top tier players are. ---- This is also why Charlie Spargo is the better option than Chandler, because he is not 'goal happy', and he doesn't fake-play a role of team play which often chandler does very demonstratively. Charlie just gets down to business and shuts his mouth, but boy is he intent, and boy is his heart and gut RIGHT IN IT. Addendum: Fine, if Pickett is out it makes undesirable selection options, and maybe Billings has to play. But by round 4 with Mcvee and Pickett back, there should be no reason for Billings to play.

On Billings ... Can someone please explain the logic behind this series of events 2024: - Billings proves himself miserably limited in all of intent, execution and sacrificial team play including pressure on the ball carrier (literally just meanders about), not to mention his body just isnt really made for AFL footy. 2025 preseason: - no apparent change in Billings. In fact, he is still finding himself space in the forward line for a cheap shot because until those moments he hasn't won the respect of the opposition. Not to mention his kicking for goal is atrocious, but not because it's an off kicking day, simply because he doesn't have any sign of really wanting it and earning it. You can tell from his demeanour, he just sort of kicks, without meaning, trying not to [censored] up (a terrible attitude to have and unfit for AFL) when he should be going for broke instead - afterall his spot in the team requires him to 'prove' himself rather than 'save' himself. - Billings fills Langdon's wing position (a role Langdon has mastered and one that is pivotal to our success in game), even when Sharp could fill it instead, OR Windsor ( we dont NEED Sharp forward, nor Windsor back, nor Langdon suddenly the panacea midfielder(!!) - a position already stacked with clarry trac viney sparrow rivers etc) 2025 preview of round 1 - Now fans are just accepting that Billings will be selected for round 1 with apparently very little interest in this catastrophe. WORD OF ADVICE - it literally takes 1 weak link in the chain in a single play to cause opposition dominance I'm going out of my head here 🤬 😖😓