donny williams no 25

Good player but compared to say Bruce & Green he has played about 70 fewer games due to injury. That's 3 full seasons he has missed and at 28 things are not going to get any better.

I don't disagree with a lot of what's been said in the last few posts. It's the footy dept who've made the call and I agree he won't be picked up at another club. I simply think he would have been good value for the next 2 years and I hope we play finals footy in that time.

In a sense, his predicament shows the problems with the current drafting. If, by Christmas, Wheatley's body is showing signs that he won't be up to it, then he should be let go and there should be another draft early in 2010 at which clubs can 'top up" for those who"ve by now fallen by the way-side

FULL STORY - melbournefc.com.au (Matt Burgan)

"I'm only 28, so whatever I'll be doing I'll be playing footy somewhere next year – at what level I don't know," Wheatley told melbournefc.com.au.

"I've still got the passion for the game and I'm the same age as 'Greeny' [brad Green] – we're both 28 – and six months ago I was feeling really good about myself and flying.

"Things can change pretty quickly and if another club is interested, I'll definitely put my hand up, because you don't want to die wondering and I still think I've got a fair bit to give."

I find this very depressing.

When it was announced that Wheatley was retiring there was so little fuss that I came to believe that Wheats had given up-perhaps because of some recurring soft tisssue injury. If that is not the case--and it had been my understanding that this year he's been hit by a number of different injuries rather than one recurring--then in my view his "retirement" is premature. He's only 28. Given a decent pre-season my view is that he would have been a certainty to be in the top 6 of Melbourn'e's B and F next year. He was 3rd last year wasn't he?

To all of you who are urging us to cull more and more experienced players, let me point out that sometime next year we'll have a large number of kids--players who haven't played 30 games--who'll be buggered. At such times a player such as Wheats, who can play a variety of positions, is invaluable.

How many new players are we planning to take onto the list? When combined with this year and last, I don't think that any more than another 4-5 are required/desirable. I feel differently about Matty Whelan--he's had too many injuries for too long. But I think the delisting of Wheatley is premature--he could have been a good finals player in 2011, then moved on, paving the way for someone who's had enough games to know what it's all about

thats the best 10 untouchables iv ever seen at the demons,bring on 2010, i cant wait to go down to casey and watch them train over summer.

just unbelievable nonsense--to rate Scully and Trengove--who haven't played, above a host of people who have and who have showed plenty

Yeah, that's a really good point I didn't consider. Couldn't imagine the Flash would want to defect to the GC though...He's Melbourne through & through!!

well, he's out of contract this year [so we were informed]and at a recent club function there was some concern about this

Only two months ago you said......

You did say Newton had no flaws and you have raved incessantly about his skills on other threads.

Want to squirm some more Freak??

Regardless, of the word "dramatically", you are still wrong and were proven wrong at the time. I gave you three players at the time you made the comment (eg Robbo and Loewe) who had dramatically improved their kicking over their career. Another absolute statement echoing profound naivety

At best you're a pseudo intellectual weasel with no substance behind an oversized ego and a severely undersized understanding of the game.

Phew!

Hey Rhino, why don't you really say what you think of him.

Beats me how you people can have the time to read all this rubbish. Does Centrelink operate as an internet cafe?

I agree with Freak re Dunn. Problem is however, that based upon some comments by Connolly who was speaking on the ABC before Saturday's game, [W.B v W.C] the club regards Dunn as a defensive tagger ala Cameron Ling. With his goal-kicking skills I hope he gets more opporrtunity in a decent team to run forwrd

Yes Agreed, we have finished many seasons off Badly, i was talking more Generally of just the odd win here & there that seems to satisfy many people.

I don't like losing either, but i will put one thing to you...that is...Would you prefer to see the best young talent in this years Draft get picked up by West Coast (Who have been in 2 Grand Finals & a Preliminary in the past 4 years) because we won a couple of dead rubbers. Or would you prefer to take a little more Pain & see them in A Demon Jumper next year?

That is my whole point. I was totally in your camp until i read up on next years Draft Concessions to the GC17.

We must Load up on Young Talent in order to give ourselves a fighting chance within the next 4-5 years.

I Love our Song Donny. I want to Sing it in a Full MCG in september...

yeah, fair enough mate I don't hold anything against you!. In fact I'm finding that some of my best friends are tankers.

Feeling. Anger. Building. Must. Try. To. Remain. Calm.

A few years ago, we were playing the Bulldogs at the Dome. Everytime Davey got the ball this kid sitting behind me who would have been about 10, would say under his breath "Coon. Coon. Coon. Coon."

Now at first I thought, maybe he's referring to Adam Cooney. So before I made a dick of myself I thought I'd make sure.

Davey gets the ball. He goes "Boong. Boong. Boong."

So I turn around and say "Hey mate, you want to watch what you're saying? Quit the racial [censored]."

So his parents chip in. The dad goes "Hey, watch how you speak to my son."

I ignore the dad and tell the kid again to watch it.

So the dad goes "It's a free country pal. We're at the footy. He can say what he wants."

So I say "Ok then mate, get the kid to stand up and say it again so everyone can have a good look at him since you're so proud of him."

The dad just says again under his breath, "It's a free country."

So I turn back around to face the game, but really feeling like clocking the dad.

Then the dad goes "Get over yourself mate. You're not even a real aborigine."

I turn around and say "What?"

He goes "You're half an aborigine arent ya."

So at this stage, my mate who was with me just grabs me by the collar and says "Leave it."

The kid didn't say anything racial for the rest of the game.

Davey kicked 4 goals.

They left early and we won.

Some parents. Some kids. Unbelievable.

Anyway, back on topic.............season disappointments.

well done you for taking them on!

Reminds me of a very funny day at Essendon-ist time we'd won there for yonks. I was with a group of Jewish friends[i'm not Jewish myself] and we were supporting the MFC quite loudly. A woman turned to us and said "can't youse get back into the synagogue where youse belong!"

One of my friends, instead of getting upset said , pointing to me-'hey, that's a bit rough on this bloke--he's one of yours!"Didn't hear from her again--in fact, they moved!

Why would I throttle myself Donny? We have some great Talent coming on, & hopefully we can pick up some class young talent in the Draft to speed up our midfield.

I am very optimistic about the Future actually.

But i couldn't care less about beating a crap side like Richmond in round 18 when it doesn't mean anything.

With the new team(s) coming in next year i want a good shot at the Draft picks before they all dry up for 5-6 years so that we give ourselves the best chance to win our 13th. Cup.

For over 40 years now i have watched The Demons win late season Dead Rubbers, & you know what.....They are Quickly forgotten.

Premierships & Finals are remembered forever Donny.

So don't question where my heart lies. I want The MFC to be number 1 in the AFL ok.

Again, I have no doubt where your heart [and mine actually] lie.We just have different views as to the best method for the club to progress. Incidentally one other thing said last night, is that next year MFC will have the youngest list in the AFL.Read what you like into that, but it was said several times.

One other thing--has MFC repeatedly won dead rubbers at seasons end? Your memory may be better than mine, but I don't think so. In fact, to the contrary, so bad has morale been much of the time, that once we're out of finals calculations, we've been hopeless--lost a whole string of games to end the season. I recall that happening several times since 1987, when we became a force again after 23 years of no finals. 2007 is often mentioned, but we hardly finished off the season in a blaze of glory. Last year we finished with a bunch of huge losses which must affect players' beliefs at the start of the next season.

So I require vengeance because I think Newton should play games at the end of another losing season, or that Miller should be given games to resurrect his career?

Newton is lucky we are 'list managing' - he gets to play a game.

And if you are alluding that I, as a 'tanker,' thought Newton and Miller missed on purpose you are way-off. Bailey will go into the game as he is about to, as young as he can, and will try people in positions they are not used to, he will put the kids in the important positions, at the important times and if they still win he will say "Oh, well. I tried to do what I had to do but we were never going to lose that game."

And BTW, the only poster that I can recall that alluded to Newton or Miller missing on purpose (not tongue in cheek) is a NON-tanking proponent True Believer. Apparently, she loves the club so much that she accuses players of missing goals on purpose for draft picks.

No, I wasn't suggesting for one moment that you, or anybody else on this site, believes the players should tank whilst on the field [although a 'supporter' at the function I attended last night thinks they should and did last Sunday].

I was merely referring to the criticism heaped upon Newton and Miller generally on this site, which I find depressing.

BTW I think you'll find that Bailey plays people where they should be best played with a view to winning--Did you see much evidence to the contrary last Sunday?

One other matter. At this function last night a [very] senior official told us that he thought almost the best thing going for the club at present was the morale of the playing group. In his view it was CRITICAL that this should not be interfered with. Make what you will about this comment, but all who heard it thought it was significant.

Donny Donny! You just don't see the Big picture do you. You are happy to see The Demons win a handful of games against crap teams, & then go home Proud of the Teams efforts. Good on ya if that rattles your cage. I want The Demons to Rule in Late September.

Would you like to Reserve a seat for that? Or is that aiming a little too high?

Have a Hot Cuppa & get back to me...ok

yeah, where are you sitting on Sunday--I want to make sure you're singing at the end, and waving your scarf if you haven't throttled yourself with it by then!

So Donny I assume you want to use the 1 win we have left on this weekends game?

Mate--I want to see them win every game they can. At a club function last night one said to me 'losing is infectious and it's not easy to get rid of the infection" Great for membership and the club generally if we finish on a high.

Three taggers in the one game, Don ?!

Won't happen.

Dunn, Bartram, Junior--you bet they'll use them as taggers

I'll take $100 on that. Odds? If that's what you see as a "bloody good team" I'm guessing this has been a good year for you

Best team they can select dear boy and that's what matters.

Would have been easy to leave out Frawley and Grimes in particular. And yes--I think they will win quite nicely. Don't bother looking at the forward line as selected--just look at the squad and see who may play there and you won't feel so certain. Of course Bailey will pick taggers for Cousins, Deledio and Cotchin and the 3 chosen will be playing for their future.

I suspect Newton and Miller will exact revenge upon a lot of knocker/tankers in the best possible way!

Looking forward to seeing you there cheering them on and singing the song!

Glad that Grimes' injury is not serious and that he is back in the team... but on the other hand, how the hell do we plan to lose with that backline?!

Bench will probably be: Whelan, Moloney, Morton and Sylvia

Bench should be: Spencer, Whelan, Valenti and Jetta

This is going to be one ugly game!

Bewdy!! I tip Melbourne by 5 goals. Bloody good team, proves there is some integrity at the club.

Underdone lol, He'd be bouncing off the walls fresh as a daisy, doubt he has been eating macca's and watching tv and not training. Of course hes back in ! earn his spot lol.

I'd be glad if I thought that was all he'd been doing while suspended!

Hopefully he'll biff someone again and the club will realise he's best on-sold. Flakey character--it doesn't work these days

I would say, and many would agree, that Watts' output in the forward line next year would be comparable to Newtons' - and Watts can kick straight.

Watts will play on a wing/HFF, but Bate will play HFF/CHF, and Jurrah FF/HFF, and Miller might be FF/CHF. If Newton can get a game in the forward line with Watts - fine.

But Jack Watts will playing games he doesn't deserve, as Jetta has, as Bennell has, as Morton has, because that is where we are at.

We are building for something beyond 2010. Does that mean I don't think we can win games? No, I have already said that 12 wins next year is a possibility. But we cannot win the 2010 flag, so we should be building a team to challenge in later years. If this means winning 8 games instead of 10 then that is the way it has to be.

But Bailey has already said his primary focus is to develop players - Jack Watts is a big player in our future and his development will require him to play a majority, if not all, of his games in the AFL next year. And if that means we kick 1 goal 4 behinds less because Newton isn't there then so be it.

yes, I guess that's ok. But at some point, development of players and winning matches have to coincide don't they?Incidentally, I'm not certain that this year there have been players better than Jetta, Bennell or Morton who could have been played to better effect. I think that in the weather prevailing on Queens Birthday, Watts shouln't have played [Norm Smith often picked teams with weather conditions in mind, tho I concede that grounds were worse then]

I do think there is room for Newton, if he shows enough, plus Watts in the same team.

2010?

Are energies should be focussed on developing a flag-winning team - we are building for 2012 onwards.

If you don't see Newton as the answer beyond 2010, then what is the point?

He'd just get in the way of Watts' development.

So, do I understand from this post, that in your view 2010 should also be written off? That at the start of the year the selectors should pick not the best 22 to win round 1 but those most likely to win us a flag in 2012? If Watts is still light and thin, and best suited to a flanker's role, he should nevertheless be played at CHF or FF?

Do you ever stop to think how debilitating that would /will be for the MFC?That another year will be spent losing games which might be won if the best available 22 were selected?The club won't survive.

Watts will supplant Newton and whoever else is in his way, when he's physically ready to do so, and that's the way it should be. Balme played Neitz for a couple of seasons at CHB--IT helped him a lot--Watts might need a number of games on a HBF before he steps up into a key forward role.

And I think the analogy with Hawkins is a good one--is anyone suggesting Hawkins should be cut?His kicking has been worse than Newton's really and he's given so many more opportunities in a top side than Newton, that I suggest the camparison is bad for Hawkins--yet Thompson persists, is trying him in more positions, and, bingo, he kicked a couple of pretty good goals [i understand] last week.

Good on you for sticking up for him.

But I disagree with you. I thought he did nothing other than show the football world that he is nothing better than an average VFL player. He still doesn't impose himself, he can't kick (which seems like a fundamental problem with his game that he mightn't be able to fix), he doesn't get enough of the ball, he doesn't move well, he doesn't have good body language, and he doesn't look like a forward even though he is one.

If I had to find a positive it would be his tackle count, but really, I'd prefer him to lay 0 tackles and kick 4 goals.

honestly mate--you just can't have been watching the game on Sunday. Apart from his goal-kicking, which I agree was poor, he played bloody well. Name the last MFC forward who layed 6 tackles including 1 that provided a goal. Identify a better pack mark than the one he took. And he made position several times for what would be gimme goals, but even Davey, for some reason, just couldn't deliver easy passes to him.

Both Miller and Newton have question marks about whether they will make it or not. Newton has some talents but really is flaky between the ears and I dont think gets whats required at AFL level. I think he is start to twig to it but its a slow process.

Miller does not have that same ability but relies on his athleticism and work ethic to make the most of his limited talents. IMO its not enough and at year end Miller is likely to be delisted.

Newton is a question mark. He has another year on his contract but sands in the hour glass are starting to run down. He needs to get his head right to maintain his position in the AFL. That includes kicking goals from gettable shots. ATM he is as good as a golfer that cant putt. With Watts coming on, Jurrah looking special and Bate starting to mature I am not sure the window of opportunuity that has been crying for Newtonto step up will be there in 9 to 12 months unless there is a big change. He will be fascinating to observe re his progress or lack thereof.

--. This is a good post. Some say he's no good below his knees but in that area he's better than Neitz was.

I was at a dinner shortly after the match v Richmond, when DB spoke and pointed out that Newton ghad missed a couple of easy goals, he'd kicked one beauty on the run. Yet, after the match v Adelaide he was dropped-- too soon in my view.And at another function I attended Schwarz described him as having a 'big,hoofing kick.[i have an idea that last year Schwarz was mentoring him}

He's only 22 and has only played about that number of games. Unless we think that Watts will be a key forward next year,[i think it will be 2011] I believe Newtion is important to the club's prospects in 2010--I don't know thereafter

In that case Miller also had a good game.

He took better marks, had more shots on goal, and led better.

But in reality, both had ordinary games. At least Miller provides us with a moving target.

The issue with Newton, kicking aside, is that he lacks football smarts and just has no idea what to do most of the time. Couple that with horrendous kicking skills, and you got yourself someone who IMO is beyond salvation.

Newton is 22 and has played about that number of games. People much closer to the club than I am say that he's a bloody good long kick when not under pressure. No technique problems. Has pace and takes good marks every time he's played. They say attitude WAS a problem, but not now

With Miller I have to concede it's [kicking] more of a problem--he's 25, played heaps of games. Didn't he kick something like 23 goals 10 last year? Why has he regressed?

Here's a new question. What are we aiming for next year? In my view it must be to improve and win as many games as possible in which case I think that Newton Miller Jurrah should all play on our forward line together with the crumbers. Watts won't be ready to play a key forward role until 2011 will he? I don't think Martin is a forward. Bate is not a key position forward. In fact I'm more gloomy about Bate than any of the above, because his ball handling is poor and he takes barely any contested marks. Can't pick the ball up. When he does get it he kicks well, but he mucks up so many chances to get the ball.

Comments?

Leaving Bruce in the team and bringing in Newton.

The perfect way to tank.

Bloody silly post!

Newton and Miller actually played well but kicked appallingly--question is wwether you dump fellows who can compete on the forward line as they did both against strong opponents.

I was particularly surprised by Newton's defensive skills, tackling etc. And in a decent side he would have kicked at least 2 more goals. Davey missed him with 1 15m pass directly in front, then kicked it over his head [for a point] when N was alone in the square.

I'm hearing the kicking coach this week--we have plenty to ask him! Bartram ,also the subject of many criticisms, also played well

donny williams no 25

I know you have stopped posting about this so just read:

We have been 'tanking' since halfway through 2007, and went into overdrive in Rd 1 2008 - when we played two then-to-fore written off duds.

Garland and Weetra. Weetra is playing suburban footy (I believe). And Garland gives YM wet dreams.

And Garland was brought to you by the good people at List Management Inc.

Their corporate motto - "Been playing kids ahead of more seasoned professionals since 2007"

I called their HQ to get the skinny on what they've been doing at the Junction:

"The Melbourne job? Yeah, that one has been long commit. Started around July 2007 and they told us to really strip the place in 08. And I mean strip - we were throwing out fixtures that could still do a better job than the newer stuff but they just said - 'we're looking ahead a few years when the newer stuff will look bloody good.' And that's understandable. The job will be finished around November this year when we get the last deliveries in. Some effing good stuff too. No worries, mate.

Next? Uh, we're off to Sydney next year but the range next year doesn't look that great. They're in some strife those cockroaches! See ya, mate."

Really nice fella that one.

His pick of the new fixtures, and he's biased we know, is the new Frawley installation in the place of the old Carroll model. But likes the look of the Wonaeamirri for Yze upgrade out the front, and the recent Grimes for Whelan upgrade out the back.

Although I'm not reading this stuff any more let me say--I like it!

The Age says[wrongly] that Melbourne [before this week] have played 4 newplayers this year. I think the number is 6 excluding Meesen who'd played a couple in Adelaide I believe.

But The Age also says that we played 6 new players in 2008, and a bunch of us can only get to 5--can anyone assist in identifying the 6 last year. And is 6 plus Meesen correct this year?

Key forward Brad Miller is back to take on the Swans, with injury forcing the Demons to make at least five changes.

Among the eight inclusions are two debutants in Queenslander Rohan Bail and Jordie McKenzie, who was today promoted from the rookie list this week.

Backs L.Dunn, M.Warnock, J.Frawley

Half backs B.Moloney, J.Rivers, C.Bruce

Centreline C.Bartram, J.McDonald, A.Davey

Half forwards J.Bennell, M.Newton, C.Morton

Forwards B.Miller, M.Bate, L.Jurrah

Followers S.Martin, R.Petterd, N.Jones

I/C From: P.Johnson, K.Cheney, N.Jetta, M.Whelan, S.Valenti, J.McKenzie, R.Bail.

TEAM CHANGES

In: Cheney, Johnson, Miller, Newton, Valenti, Whelan, McKenzie, Bail

Out: McLean (Knee), Jamar (Quad), Green (Scaphoid), Grimes (Back), Robertson

New: Jordie McKenzie (Geelong Falcons), Rohan Bail (Mt Gravatt)

I reckon that team will win. I particularly like the forward line though I am a little doubtful how many times the ball will actually get into our forward line!

You haven't got a clue what Stynes is actually thinking. He, Schwab and Connolly are far shrewder person than you would realise. From the MFC perspective, its the same position and the same outcome if we win 5 games...in fact its worse. That is all that counts

Its more meaningful that all those players have an elite teammate like Scully to assist them. The upside is considerably reduced and the opportunity wasted.

There are four more games that are at risk because of the present poor form of the opposition...Swans, Richmond, North and Freo. If Sandilands and Pac play there are some clues how we beat Freo?

Richmond would the last 7 out of 9 in 2008 and did that give them anymore belief? It didn't and the 2010 season can be planned and implemented regardless of the outcomes of 2009. Given how young the side will be next year its likely to be challenging again to competitive throughout the season

If the issue is insolvency then the MFC would have folded in the 1980's. The AFL own the licence that is the MFC and is the ultimate guarantor of the debts. MFC is not trading insolvently. I dont deny the issue. But once again you have the core facts wrong and droawing inccorrrect conclusions. The AFL have already said that Tassie is the 19th team (whatever that means). They are at least 5 years away from consideration for the AFL in any form. By that time MFC should be heading up the ladder even more so with Scully.

Well, I'm not talking about tanking anymore but I will respond to the Richmond thing.

In my view Wallace and the Richmond board should be shot for the arrogance with which they approached 2009. If we win a number of games but our leaders can't imbue a different attitude into our players then I'm Rhino Richards. Incidentally we did beat Freo with Sandilands and Pavlich playing last year tho Jamar was a key to that win and he might be missing I gather.

Anyway, good luck to you and all tankers-- see you in 2010 when our young team will approach the season with more optimism than you miserable lot because of their success at the end of 2009!