Alan Smithee

we think not. KISS. Chronic underachievers, like coaches, have a limited shelf life. Unless youre Melbourne. Riley is doing what is needed & throwing the dice with the list. Necessity is the mother of invention. Its time to draw the line. Its time to get rid of any player that will not assist in attaining the ultimate for this club. Every player has a right to deal their fate. But for this club, time is a precious commodity Its Miller time.

Agree Warren D. Of the list, Maclure is probably the only one for me who has demonstrated he can speak his mind. I am not privy to what Ingo can bring to the table. This whole 'process' reeks of an administration not willing to make a hard decision and absconding on its responsibility to what is the biggest decison this club faces in plotting its long term future. If all goes pear shaped, who gets the balme, er sorry..blame. Gardner? Surely not. He appoints a committe to make all the hard calls. Nice touch. WTF.

You missed my point. As with the 'Voss & esteemed company' mob attack , Hookesy was involved in an incident not dissimilar. The end result was tragic. It could easily have happened again. The whole incident was ugly, stupid & cannot be condoned. Voss is particulary disappointing as whilst under scrutiny he publicly stated to being satisfied with his actions. A smug & foolish comment. Put simply, it opens another window into the psyche of someone who has fast become a character of questionable repute. Anything else said is utter tish.

I like your thinking Joeboy. If that fails, maybe plan C is target the Sudras?

Its a reality the club faces and has no choice but to be conservative. 5th Avenue for the Pies. Dimmys for Melbourne. Given the chronic financial woes of this club, what 'other' considerations would you suggest could override our decision not to go Irish again?

True. The recruitment selection ( player profile) process can't capture every possible scenario and no recruiter in my time could ever lay claim to being Nostradamus or Sig Freud. The best any club can do is to ensure they foster a culture of discipline, accountability & commitment. It needs to be enforced by club personnel inc the leadership group and not fall prey to playing 'favourites'. (read Collingwood & congrats to Geelong). But for all the Hawks fans, I wonder if they wouldve shown G.Ablett Snr the door had they known what was to evolve of his talent. Would the Mfc have acted the same?

I have a medico friend & we were talking about Petterd the other day. He concluded that prior to the incident, he was asymptomatic. Prognosis is good (100% recovery). Not so sure about Rivers, would need to know the extent of the damage, but we speculate he will make a full recovery,albeit slow. We assume thats why he's being knifed now.

Reading your take on this is like wading through treacle. You make it sound complicated when its not. I have not seen any example of anyone here has pretended to know anything more than what has been made public. I believe that any assumption we had of Voss' character prior to this incident was extremely positive. No one from our side of the fence saw this coming, or did we? Hence the alarm bells. The incident was captured on the POW secuirty CCTV. Commercial venues have them. Theres your answer. The images cannot be doctored. Only footage can be erased. What are you trying to say? If im not mistaken, you infact sound like youre defending Voss? Provocation or not, his actions were reckless,stupid and irresponsible. There are no excuses. He is very lucky that the outome was no worse. Anyone remember David Hookes? BTW QC, have you heard of the the KISS principle?

Everest wouldn't be high enough.

a welcome change you say..what about Robbo and others try shutting the F#*k up.

Harmless? Try reckless. Another chestnut from a former member of the leadership group. Our lack of discipline cuts this club to the core.

No. Gambling is legal. So is debt. Whats your point?

Sorry Deanox, I was posting as you replied. In my opinion he was one of the great modern day footballers and ahead in his time. A natural on field leader. His coaching record speaks for itself. As coaches go, at Vic Park he was as green as they come but achieved what other more experienced and highly rated coaches couldn't (see Cahill, Rose etc) With one of the most ordinary playing lists going around, he helmed Collingwood to their first flag in 32 years. As for player behaviour, other people may wish to talk about some infamous 'off field' indiscretions whilst he was there. Names such as Banks, Millane, Manson, etc come to mind. He wasn't entirely innocent either. Could've been a catalyst for his departure.

I seem to recall he retired as a player for the Hawks in '85 after playing 332 games. Then walked straight into the senior coaching position for the Filth in '86.

Matthews' thuggery was more an 'on field' than 'off field' issue.

I also strongly agree. He is a human being. He has a career like most people. But so what if he is a footballer. He is not above the law. Jaded, In reply to your comment I suspect you've just had a brain fade as opposed to what could otherwise be considered as an alarmingly unhealthy perspective on social behaviours & attitudes.

Of the players you mentioned as troublemakers, two of them were with Voss on the night of the alleged incident. Shame that evidence can't be used in his defence of reckless stupidity.

It probably is if you want t see Neita get the gig next year I suggest the coach incumbent may have a bit to say on this incubus. If Neitz decides to play on in '08, a change in leadership should not be out of the question.

He's still raw and playing him any sooner would have been pointless. But I'm surprised by what I've seen and I now hope the club keeps playing him while form warrants.

It would be unfair to say he hasn't.

There has never been a better time for this club to rebuild its playing list. The process should be centered around our youth. If we are to apply this principle then his time is up. As for his game, Carlton are very very ordinary and overall the game reeked of 2 lowly sides having a hit out. Even then, he executed some pretty basic clangers.

If its Choko Williams from Port, i'd forgive him.

And the club is employing a sub committe and sourcing 3rd party input as part of the selection process. Surely Connollys odds can't get any shorter.

Ash, I don't wish for you to disappear either. If you are convinced that Lloyd was treated unfairly, so be it. Move on. Yes, I am not fond of Essendon. Good insight. Yes I am saddened, in particular, by 2000. But I look forward to astute football discussions mate. But if I disagree with you, don't get upset. Deanox, I read & participate with Demonology.Yes I am new here. In respect of Ash's comments, I will lead by example and not labour my point too much. Jezza, I know a few of Saintsational members and even a 'fat' filth poster. Not known for their wingeing. Kudos to them. Frankly Franky, I appreciate your thoughts. My jacksee aint big enough bud. But I hear you've worked on yours and is a perfect fit. Stay Ash!

Agree. This will only add further pressure to Pagan and his position. More smoke & mirrors at the Blues.