sanityprevails

Thank you for your input sanityprevails, see you next Tuesday.

We all await with baited breath...well, some of us more-so than others, wink wink.

Look guys, the reason for my appearance here is that certain information being posted in this thread is patently false. Now whether that is intentional or not, I have no idea but these posts have become the source of amusement on other forums, which led me to your fine site. So I will leave you all to it with a suggestion that once WADA pass on any appeal at some point during the next week, then move on as threads like this do a disservice to otherwise good forums.

How about you actually read the blogs, they are very balanced and not biased at all either way, they simply state what has happened and what will happen. They are also qualified practicing lawyers so they would know a thing or two about it. The example given about whether it was TB4 paints picture perfectly, surely if you have tests that say it probably is, and three people all saying it is, and these people are the manufacturer and the people who ordered it, then you could be satisfied that it was TB4.

They also pointed out that Jones was a criminal judge used to working with beyond reasonable doubt so may have leaned unknowingly to what he was comfortable with. they raised the questions of whether this would be the same with a civil judge, or people experienced with dealing with comfortable satisfaction in the CAS setting.

I am sure you wont accept any of this as you appear to one of the many EFC fans who still have your head buried and only heard not guilty and haven't delved any deeper. Can I suggest you do.

This thread is as good as some of the nonsense posted on bf's htb thread - An independent tribunal of highly qualified professionals found ASADA's case hopelessly constructed & didnt come close to proving their burden (& lets not forget the issue of 'manufactured evidence', I mean seriously what did these clowns at ASADA think they were doing??), but it is Essendon people that are being accused of having their heads in the sand?? That's laughable as I suspect deep down most of you here full well know.

Anyhoo, have fun hanging on for WADA to appeal & those blood tests to suddenly all come back positive (all 2 of them). Really life's too short.

The burden of proof question is not as simple as you suggest. Comfortable satisfaction is somewhat of a moving beast, where it lies is dependant on the consequences of a guilty finding, this is what is called the Briginshaw test.

There are legal bloggers out there (actual lawyers who understand these things) that have said that it seems the tribunal put the burden of proof at a very high point, some say it was basically beyond reasonable doubt. This is seen in their decision to say they didn't know if it was TB4 or TB500 as the tests said it could be either. This seemed odd as they don't need to be absolutely satisfied and they have evidence from Charters, Alavi, and the manufacturer in China that it was TB4. Wouldn't you then be satisfied that it was TB4, especially as a test showed it could have been? Obviously this is where the tribunal members thought the burned of proof should lie and due to there dissatisfaction about the substance they basically stopped there, although they did say they couldn't link it from Dank to the club.

Now if this goes to CAS and CAS say they are satisfied it was TB4, which I am confident they would as they would set the burden of proof lower, then the question comes back to the link from Dank to the club. It doesn't take much joining of dots to make that happen, and joining is allowed if comfortable satisfaction is lowered from the stratospheric levels it was taken to by the tribunal.

This quote says it all I am afraid - There are legal bloggers out there (actual lawyers who understand these things) that have said that it seems the tribunal put the burden of proof at a very high point, some say it was basically beyond reasonable doubt. - This is just opinion & almost certainly opinion from those who were displeased with the tribunals findings. There is nothing released to date which backs the assertion that the tribunal set the bop to high, nothing. The tribunal was made up of very experienced legal minds, those that actually have practiced & not just blogged, & as we will most certainly see in a few days time when WADA do not appeal, their judgement was spot on.

All now hinges on WADAs reading of the brief of evidence. But given the focus on personal responsibility, as expressed by John Fahey, and John Coates, and the lack of steps taken by Essendon players to question what was happening, and the lesser standard of proof required by CAS than the interpretation settled on by the AFL Tribunal, it is hard to see the Essendon players, and indeed the administration and coaches, getting off.

Once CAS pronounces on the players, then the coaches and administration will follow if what happens in cycling is any guide.

There are many mistakes in your take but none greater than this nonsense - there is not a 'lesser standard of proof required by CAS', the burden of proof is identical to that applied by the AFL Tribunal & we all know how spectacularly ASADA failed in even getting close to proving it's case(lol).

As for Fahey, he can whinge & cry as much as he likes but he is no longer relevant in any way to this or any other case & to suggest he has any influence on how WADA will decide on any appeal, is simply misleading anyone silly enough to put any credence in your posts.